Do people become Atheists because they are Hurt????
By bird123
@bird123 (10632)
United States
September 11, 2009 10:41pm CST
Sometimes there are painful events in our life that changes how we view the world. We focus so hard on the Hurt, we can see little else. We acquire an extremely narrow view. Further, most people who are hurt, want to strike back at the hurt and those perceived as causing it. To cover this hurt or to fail to see it fot exactly what it is, can cause people to carry it with them for a lifetime.
Have you been hurt??? I know a man who quit believing in God because his wife left him. He blames God! Funny how people always expect God to solve all their problems. How can God's children be able to stand on their own two feet if they aren't capable of solving a few problems? How can we learn without a few growing pains? A wise man once told me that out of every bad thing that happens, some goodness happens along with it. Good and bad have always been partners.
There are those who have been Hurt by religion. There are people who condemn you for not being righteous. There are people who get angry when you can not believe their version of God. There are those who threaten you with eternal hell if you don't follow. People can be so controlling. They want to control your thoughts and actions in every way. Rule you I suppose. Everybody wants to rule the world! Lots of people have been hurt by religion and religious people in the name of God. Are you one of them????
Deep down, we all know God whether we care to admit it or not. There are some who believe in God but say God is impersonal. Isn't this just an attempt to convince yourself not to be ruled or controlled?? You demand your freedom from the rules of religion or anyone else for that matter. Sure, it's easy to dismiss religion's version of God but could you dismiss a God who gives unconditional love and accepts you as you are?? A god who allows you total freedom to Choose! God will gladly work around you and your choices!
Still, there will be some solid as a rock saying God does not exist. Are they as solid as they profess to be???? A wise lady once told me that it doesn't matter what an atheist says because when they are in big trouble, they are praying to somebody for help. Perhaps, this is universal. Deep down, we all know God! We all know where the help really is!!
Go ahead. Be proud! Never admit the possibility that God exists. Believing has never been important to God. God will work around you but when you hold onto your hurt, it prevents you from learning, from seeing, from understanding!!
Question God all you want. The only ones who do not want you to question are those who want to shield you from the real truth. God will teach us all the secrets of the universe and no matter what happens. We are eternal!! Yes, even you atheists!
I challenge everyone to discover God on your own. I find it so strange that people look for God by following others. Perhaps God isn't who they really search for. People in this world are controlling. I wouldn't count on anyone else's view of God and that includes all religions. Man has his hands deep into all religions.
If you search with the open mind of a young child, you will discover a God who is unlike what you have been taught. God loves all His children unconditionally. In time, you will know an unconditional love that will heal all hurt. In the meantime, take your adversity with a grain of salt, for without adversity we would all just sit back, enjoy the ride, and learn very little.
OK world! Tell me what you really think! Share your hurt if you can. Maybe by sharing, be able to see it for what it really is, thereby overcoming it. Holding onto Happiness is so much more fun than holding onto hurt!!!
3 people like this
9 responses
@Frederick42 (2024)
• Canada
16 Sep 09
It has not to do with hurt, but realization. Some people realize or they feel that they realize that there is no God.
If we have to talk about hurt, it could happen the other way round also. An atheist who has been hurt again and again could turn to God, not knowing what else to do. He may start believing in God.
If we , as you say, are eternal, then God cannot exist. If I am eternal, never-created and will never die, and God is also eternal, then God is not God, not the supreme being.
All through this thread, you are telling people to search for God. But you are not giving any guideline. It is just like I go to a wonderful, beautiful place and tell me friend to go there. But I do not tell him where the place is located, how to reach there. It is no use telling him how beautiful place it is and telling him he too should go there. A map is needed, directions are needed.
Next thing is, is your own search over? If you have coem to the definite conclusion that God exists, how are you so sure? What if you have come to the wrong conclusion? What if the fact is that there is no God?
So, you have to contnue the search. But how to recognise the truth or God? Even if you come across God, how do you know that is God? It could be your hallucination.
So, you will have to search and search and search... It will never.
Another thing is you are asking people to think. Fine, your intentions are good. However, let me tell you that people do nothing but think and think. The mind is very noisy. For centuiries, people have been thinking and little good came out of it. The theist says 'think' and he gives ten arguments in favour of the existence of God. And the atheist also says 'think' and he also gives ten arguments in favour of the non-existence of God. The readers of these arguments will think of some more arguments.
We have to learn to stop thinking. The mind has to be quiet. When the mind is utterly silent- when no thought arises- we become joyful, peaceful. I am not saying we should never think. I am saying we should think when we really wish to think. In other words, not to be a slave of the mind.
I encourage people to stop searching. Just live joyfully. Be totally in the present moment, the eternal moment of now. Forget about God, devil, heaven and hell. No need to worry about past and future. The fact is that we definitely exist and that is more than enough.
2 people like this
@Frederick42 (2024)
• Canada
16 Sep 09
Knowledge does not solve all problems. Knowledge only gives certain information and is helpful to a certain extent, but solving a problem is a different category. When we go beyond mind, there is a much larger of solving problems.
God has a very high IQ.''''.
Good for him. But that does not benefit me in any way. The question is whether I have got a good IQ or not. What I am going to do with God's high IQ?
Added to that people see only what they want to see,'''''
Not me. I can see things as they are.
Your post only shows you have got a closed view. You have jumped to a conclusion that God exists, just as somebody else jumps to a conclusion that God does not exist.
2 people like this
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
16 Sep 09
Now you are never going to get me to stop thinking!! Don't you know?? Knowledge solves all the problems. As far as being eternal, I know it is hard to understand for everything in this physical world is stuck in linear time. There is so much yet to learn. So you want me to walk you to God's door. I did that one time with a friend. My friend was just confused. God has a very high IQ. Added to that people see only what they want to see, further people make God to what they think He should be and will not accept reality. People are controlling and want to wrap God around their finger. As you can see, it's more complex. God places knowledge all around us, we will discover when we really want to,when we search,when we are open enough to see and understand. So now I point. I do not want people to follow me but to make their own journey. You are intelligent!! If you really want to find God, I bet you can find a way. How do I know I'm not talking just to myself. God doesn't think like me. My view is much too narrow. It's something I try to work on everyday. There are other things as well. If you find God, I promise you that you will know it!! We are ants. Hope this helps. Your comments are always welcome. If you decide not to look for God, God still loves you unconditionally!!!
1 person likes this
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
16 Sep 09
Whereas we agnostics, not knowing either way, don't jump to either conclusion. I must admit I get almost as peeved by blind atheism as I do by blind faith in God and scriptures. No atheist has ever been able to convince me that a higher power doesn't exist, just as no believer has ever convinced me it does.
Lash
1 person likes this
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
13 Sep 09
For most people the path that leads to Atheism has little to do with hurt or a sense that a god has somehow failed them. Most Atheists end up being so after a long process of logic and thought that ends with the conclusion that there is no rational reason to believe in a god or gods.
Every society and culture seems to create a belief system that revolves around some kind of supernatural parental figure that will care for the believer and punish them for their transgressions. This core belief is not all bad because it leads to a cohesive society with a shared belief system and rituals that cement societal bonds. Atheists are just people that recognize this for what it is.
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@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
13 Sep 09
"Then with all your reason and logic, you can not come up with even the possibility that a higher intelligence created all this???"
I can find no compelling reason or evidence to support the conclusion that some higher intelligence exists, let alone created anything.
"Are you sure you aren't basing your logic on the fact that other's beliefs do not add up?"
No, I am applying my logic to the facts at hand. The beliefs of others do not enter into the equation although I will concede that some beliefs of others do seem a bit silly to me.
"Hasn't religion hurt you??"
No it hasn't really had either a negative or positive effect on my life.
"Isn't it no more than EGO that tells man that he is the smartest being in the universe???"
The human species may not even be the smartest species on this planet, let alone in the universe. If intelligence can be judged by the complexity of language and communicative skills than the Humpback Whale has us beat.
"Now, if you concede the fact that a higher intelligent being is possible then shouldn't you be searching for the truth??? Is truth important to you???"
While a being of higher intelligence is a real possibility it is a logical fallacy to conclude that that being is a god or had any thing to do with creation. That higher intelligence could be a Humpback Whale or a messenger from the planet Zolton.
The truth is important to me but the real truth is that there is no universal truth, only the truth you observe from your own unique viewpoint.
2 people like this
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
13 Sep 09
Goods answers. Why is it a logical fallacy that a higher being did create it all???? I find just the opposite. Look at the complexity of this world. Things fit together pretty well. Look at DNA. Lots of genius behind that. Even Evolution reveals very high intelligence to design a system that runs on it's own. Man lacks so much knowledge. This leads to a very narrow view. God's handy work is all around you. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. What can you really see???? Surely you can't say it's logical that random chance created it all. My chevy truck did not make itself. If it did, I wish it would make me a new model. The old one is getting run down. Thanks for those comments!!
2 people like this
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
13 Sep 09
Then with all your reason and logic, you can not come up with even the possibility that a higher intelligence created all this??? Are you sure you aren't basing your logic on the fact that other's beliefs do not add up?? Hasn't religion hurt you?? Isn't it no more than EGO that tells man that he is the smartest being in the universe??? Now, if you concede the fact that a higher intelligent being is possible then shouldn't you be searching for the truth??? Is truth important to you??? If God exists, logic dictates that He can be found. Do you search??? Sometimes people who search find what they are searching for.
3 people like this
@Sweetchariot (1718)
• United States
19 Sep 09
Bird, I have read this discussion and all the follow up responses...boy! I commend you on your attempt to lead others to the light...and I am sure God is too!
As a believer, I do have a problem with the importance you stress on "knowledge""...seek to find the truth. I believe a person has to have a desire to find God, before he seeks the knowledge..if he seeks to prove his non-existence, he just might find more reasons to not believe. If someones mind is made up before they start seeking that knowledge, they will only find reason to believe that they were right in the first place. No matter what they find they will always turn it to fit their conclusion that God does not exist, because their mind was already made up before they searched.
But if one is searching, because they want to find God, they then have an open mind, and not a narrow one, and it becomes possible to find him. "Seek Him, and He will be found". God(or Jesus) does not say "Seek the proof that I do not exist, and it will be found". In seeking HIM, he will be discovered.
Also, doesn't his words say "Come to me like little Children"...come with the innocent, simple, uncomplicated faith, and you will find him. Sometimes in seeking knowledge, proof, and reasoning, can get us all boggled up in earthly logic. God is not of this earth, therefore all earthly logic will just boggle the mind, and confuse the search to all directions. God's mind, thinking, and actions, as you say, are far superior to ours, therefore logic may never proove his existence. It will make us think of all the possibilities, but to have actual proof, physical proof, may never happen.
I, too, like you, feel I have proof that there is a God...from my own experiences in life, but to explain that proof to an unbeliever is impossible. I can only say "I know that I know that I know, that God exists"..."how?", non-believers may ask, and my answer is, "you wouldn't believe me anyway." So, as you are trying so desparately to point the way, I commend you in your attempt....as you know God did say we will be persecuted in our beliefs. You will be rewarded some day.
You made no mention of God's son Jesus, so I don't know where you are with this, however, I would say the same to you...If you have the desire to know the truth, you have opened up a door for yourself, and certainly God will show it all to you, but sometimes all he wants is for us to approach him like little children - with open hearts and the willingness to follow him without detouring to the deepest ends of the universe to find proof.
Good luck in your search!
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
19 Sep 09
Out of their own mouths .....
You have to have a DESIRE to believe in God, you say. So God is nothing but a reflection of your own desire, and a believer's desire may be very comforting for him/her, but it is simply not proof and never will be.
What many of us are saying is simply that we have a desire for PROOF of God's existence: just wanting him to exist doesn't cut the mustard.
Lash
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
20 Sep 09
Life is the education of God's children. We learn through the parameters of our lives and the people we interact with. Believing is not necessary for learning. I will interact with everyone around me. It probably changes people in ways that I'll never see. I never need the glory of seeing someone change for I know it might just take the next person after me to do the job. We all change. We all learn. God is teaching us all great wisdom and to love unconditionally!! Thanks for everyone's comments!!
@Sweetchariot (1718)
• United States
20 Sep 09
Granpa...Unfortunately, you didn't quite understand what I was saying..but that's okay...It was meant for bird, so I am hoping he does.
I didn't say that you have to have a desire to believe in God...you have to have desire to find God, therefore opening up all posibilities that there is one. If you only seek knowledge to prove that there is "no God", that is what you will find - nothing to prove that he exists, and you will find many obstacles to prove your stand in his non-existence. However, if you have a desire to find God, God will show you in his way, where you will have no doubt in the truth. "Seek him and you will find him". But if someone is seeking to deny him, that too you will find. Why would God have to prove himself to someone who is only seeking to prove that he does not exist.
I hardly believe that if someone sincerely desires proof of God that God will not show that person of his existence. Unfortunately, you want to see physical proof, as well as visual proof, which is entirely impossible of any human that has left this earth.
They claim that men have walked the moon, we have seen pictures of these astronauts, we have see pictures of them walking the moon, but we weren't there, therefore should we actually believe it. Is this some hype by the government of some event that never happened. If we believe in this why is it so hard to believe in a God or Jesus for that matter. People of that time have spoke about Jesus, do you believe them...or is it God that you just have a problem with.
Grandpa...I respect your thoughts ..thank you for responding.
@flower21 (765)
• Philippines
13 Sep 09
I do have religion but do not practices is often, meaning Iám closer to becming atheist. i do believe you could be a good person even if you are not religious. i am sick of other people pretending to be good yet frequently criticize other people when their life is not so PERFECT!! Good discussion..i like you expose artificial thinking of other people are not open to new point of view like you for being honest of what you thinking and feel.. :D I do not like sites which do not allow free thoughts or freedom of expression. what kind of people they are restricting ideas of other opposite from they. Do other people think their ideas are more superior to other. Why they should open their eyes and be honest with themselves not pretending just like any person who replies on you is a bunch of immature cranks!! :D
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@bird123 (10632)
• United States
13 Sep 09
Thanks for all your kind words. Everybody does have a differnt view. By giving everyone a different view, God gives us a larger view than any one person can have. Truth and knowledge comes from the free interaction of all. Lots of what I have discovered comes from such interactions. All truth no matter the source must be questioned. Real truth never changes. Some people can be hurt when they discover they weren't holding the truth but haven't we all held false beliefs in the past?? It is a part of learning if only we do not allow our egos to get in the way. Thanks again for the nice comments!!
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@matsulori (269)
• United States
16 Sep 09
I will respond with a quote by a very wise man: "We can reject everything else: religion, ideology, all received wisdom. But we cannot escape the necessity of love and compassion. This, then, is my true religion, my simple faith. In this sense, there is no need for temple or church, mosque or synagogue, no need for complicated philosophy, doctrine, or dogma. Our own heart, our own mind, is the temple. The doctrine is compassion. Love for others and respect for their rights and dignity, no matter who or what they are; ultimately these are all we need. So long as we practice these in our daily lives, then no matter if we are learned or unlearned, whether we believe in Buddha or God, or follow some other religion or none at all, as long as we have compassion for others and conduct ourselves with restraint out of a sense of responsibility, there is no doubt we will be happy." ~Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama
These are some of the wisest words to live by I've ever heard.
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
17 Sep 09
matsulori, no, he doesn't appear to read posts, or if he does, to understand them. As someone said above, it's pointless arguing with him - he suffers from blind arrogance.
Lash
@matsulori (269)
• United States
17 Sep 09
Did you even read that quote? He is stressing the fact that NO RELIGION AND NO GOD IS NECESSARY. And this is a man who is the spiritual leader of an entire religion.
@matsulori (269)
• United States
16 Sep 09
Bird, I think you hold atheists to an extremely narrow bias when you say that they become atheists only because they are hurt. It has been said that people who believe in god only do so because they refuse to deal with reality on reality's terms, and use religion as a crutch. This kind of generalization is just as wrong when used either way. You can't dispose of so large a percentage of people so easily. Your way isn't the only way to enlightenment. I think there are many paths, and some meander pleasantly. One can't judge another's path. As long as one finds peace within and is moved to be a good person, what does it matter whether it is god or one's own morals and ethics guiding one along the right path, so long as it's the right path? What you say here is the more controlling way. You say "I wouldn't count on anyone else's view of god and that includes all religions," yet you state unconditionally that "if you search with the open mind of a young child, you will discover god..." Why should anyone listen to you? Who are you to say that god exists other than for your own self? This is YOUR path to god. Travel it yourself. To share what you've found is a different thing entirely than to challenge others to discover what you yourself have found, and then tell them they're wrong unless they see exactly what you see. People will find truth on their own, see it their own way. Or not.
1 person likes this
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
17 Sep 09
Much better put than this cantankerous old coot managed lol. That demand to listen to him really peeved me.
Lash
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
17 Sep 09
With the diversity of every individual, one can not put a label on any group and be accurate. The focus here is to light up the hurt. If one hides hurt and hold onto it,it will touch everyone you contact.All aren't hurting but I bet there are some. I am placing truth out there. I make no demands other than for people to think. As far as religion goes, I have seen a lot of man's problems in it. Everybody truly does want to rule the world. Religion can be brainwashing. People accept blindly. I know this too is a lesson to learn. At what point can anyone justify that thinking is not necessary. THe reasons I chose to look for God was to know the truth. You have to also realize the potential for learning that comes with God. I want no followers. Be who you must! It's a part of the plan!! Listen to the advice of others but walk your own path!!! Life's lessons are best learned that way!!! We learn through the parameters of our life and the interaction with people. I AM INTERACTING!!!!! You must admit. There is some thinking going on here!!!! Thanks for all the wonderful comments!!!!!!
@matsulori (269)
• United States
17 Sep 09
"I am placing truth out there."
Is that so? Can you prove it?
@ladyhope (377)
• Canada
13 Sep 09
Religion has never hurt me, in fact, my closest grandfather was a Reverend who taught me all about god and religion. I still do not believe in God. Why? Many reasons, the biggest being proof! Show me solid proof of god and I will accept him. by proof, I don't mean "look at the beauty of nature, it must be God." This is not real evidence, this is what I hear believers saying for lack of any other evidence.
I don't have any solid answers about god or religion, so let me ask you this: How do you know that there is a god? Where is the proof? How can you believe in a god who condones hate?
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
13 Sep 09
The only concrete proof you will accept, is when you make contact with God. Alas, the journey must be taken by you! The decision to make this journey must be yours. It's not what everybody else does that counts. It's what you do! I can merely point. Like God, I am putting truth out there. What you do with the truth is entirely up to you. I wish you the very best!!
1 person likes this
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
13 Sep 09
God is not looking for you to accept Him. In fact, believing has never been important to God. All knowledge and the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. Who can see? How long did man watch birds fly before he figured out how??? You say that God condones hate???? Does He really?? Shouldn't God's children have free choice,free will. The only people who hate are those who do not understand what it is. God will send lessons. Sure we all must witness hate. Some of us fight to show people what hate does. For the rest it is a reminder of what the real answers are. You need proof of God? If God really exists, then He can be found. God doesn't just give us all the answers. Wisdom is gained from the struggle to acquire knowledge. You want proof of God then you should search. Sometimes people who search find what they search for. God can be found. Perhaps, it's all just a test of intelligence. Thanks for all your comments!!!
2 people like this
@ford_mts (232)
• India
16 Sep 09
Yes,But It is not the only reason which make him an atheist.It might be that people did not tell him of the truth or it could be that he is not willing to hear the truth for the sake of his own desires which he might have to leave what he called joy and amusement in life.
We should explain him that the best about us is known to the ONE who created us.To attain peace we have to abide by the law.Some people like teasing other and if we stop them by saying that it is not good they will either neglect it or come against us because they feel that it is against their so call enjoyment and start thinking against the religion.And there are several cases in which he lead himself to reject what is true and accept what matches his inside thoughts.
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
16 Sep 09
The only problem with your prescription is that, since atheists by definition don't believe in your ONE, they are hardly going to listen to anything you have to say about him. Your "truth" is not their "truth", and definitely not my "truth". The arrogance of religious believers in forever assuming there is only one truth and that they have it, especially when that truth differs even between different brands of the same religion let alone from other religions, never ceases to amaze me.
Lash
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
16 Sep 09
I have to agree a bit here with grandpa. Lots of religious people are convinced they have the truth thereby they stop questioning. Truth must always be questioned, even long held beliefs. Real truth will never change. Of course, not believing that God exists should be questioned as well!! Simply because an army of religions want you to follow them, doesn't mean any are right or that God is what they say He is. I think God and science are alike in that both must always add up. If they don't then it's not truth. Now as far as Mr Ford says that people who are out to have a good time become atheists because religion goes against their good time,I think most people are a bit deeper than that. For the person who really concentrates on that good time, they aren't even considering religion at all much less whether God exists. They just think of the next party. Lots of great comments here!!!! Thanks everyone!!
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
12 Sep 09
Thanks for the nice comments. I sometimes come across judgemental???? I must admit that english and language might be my weaker talent. I must strive to be more precise. I guess I can be hard on some religious views and ideas. However, truth doesn't always feel good. Thanks for the feedback as well!
2 people like this
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
13 Sep 09
Never to argue but to interact my good friend. Thanks for all your comments!! Any feedback no matter how it comes out is welcome. In this world we all learn from each other. If people avoid interaction, they avoid learning as well. Let me have it!! I am one who doesn't get angry no matter what you say. If I ever sound angry in my words, let me know.It is never intended. I will explain it all. Thanks!!
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