Racist statements mad on a Walmart PA system, is this really a crime?

You know, I actually looked up the New Jersey statutes on this all prepared to argue it. Your definition isn't really the New Jersey definition, and under your definition I don't think it was harassment, but the New Jersey law is actually pretty clear. "Except as provided in subsection e., a person commits a petty disorderly persons offense if, with purpose to harass another, he: a. Makes, or causes to be made, a communication or communications anonymously or at extremely inconvenient hours, or in offensively coarse language, or any other manner likely to cause annoyance or alarm;" Bias intimidation is just a load of crap that amounts to calling this a hate crime because it involved race. The harassment bit amounts to a petty disorderly conduct charge so it makes sense as most people here agree it was disorderly conduct. I just think hate crimes are stupid and as nobody was harmed in any way using that to escalate the charge is dumb. http://www.nj-statute-info.com/getStatute.php?statute_id=1766 http://www.nj-statute-info.com/getStatute.php?statute_id=1576

Which, to my mind, would be a charge of disorderly conduct, and permanent banishment from Wal-Mart. Had his statement contained vulgarity - curse words and racially derogatory terms - I would support even further punishment. Harassment and "bias intimidation", on the other hand, doesn't quite fit the bill. It sounds more like an over-reaction.

Picking up the intercom and making fart noises would have been a nuisance, but this was racially charged, even if only to create a stir. It should have adequate punishment based on that alone.

Sorry, it fits the legal bill. There is a legal definition of harassment, which is the physical or verbal abuse of a person because of her race, religion, age, gender or disability. Instructing a specific group of people to leave the store, based on their race, is not only ignorant, it's verbally abusive. I keep reading about permanent banishment from Wal-Mart stores but that would be impossible to enforce. It's not like you have to show a membership card like you do at Sam's Club.

"Do you think they may have felt humiliated, and their reputation was a little marred?" No, I think they thought to themselves "WTF?" And were a bit pissed. I'm not sure if you know what reputation is as there is no way the reputation of any black people could have been affected by what he did. "But, you consider the punishment I am suggesting, which only mirrors what he did HARMFUL." Your punishment isn't even remotely similar to what he did. Maybe you don't know what mirroring means either. A mirrored punishment would be if they waited till he was in a store and someone said "All white people leave the store now." (assuming this kid is white). Instead you're suggesting he be publicly humiliated and make sure that EVERYONE knows what he did despite the fact that he is a juvenile with the legal right to have his record expunged after he turns 18. "blah blah blah while conducting a murder" Well that's a murder. Again, should he be fried twice? "Premeditation has an effect on sentencing." Of course it does, that's what makes something murder and not manslaughter. The race of the victim or the reason the criminal chose the victim is irrelevant. Only the fact that it was premeditated matters to me. "That is akin to terrorism." Great, now you're trying to compare a rude announcement over a PA to terrorism. Why don't we just throw the kid in GITMO and waterboard him a few times?

I agree with you on the creative sentencing because the boy won't receive jail time for these crimes anyway so there should be some way for him to learn from this.

Taskr - You said: "First off, I don't believe publicly humiliating and permanently damaging a child's reputation is an appropriate sentence. He's a CHILD." How do you think the black children in that Walmart felt after hearing this kid on the intercom? Do you think they may have felt humiliated, and their reputation was a little marred? Because that is how they felt. And you think the person who caused that should walk away without being responsible for what he did, suggesting that he didn't HARM anyone. But, you consider the punishment I am suggesting, which only mirrors what he did HARMFUL. Picking and choosing, are we? In your example of the tourist - If the black man had signs of racism, and there was a hint that this was racially motivated, it should have been charged as a hate crime on top of murder. If this was a robbery gone awry, as I have stated elsewhere in other threads on mylot, it should be treated as murder. Let's say that you see a notable skinhead, associated with the klan, wearing a swastika on his necklace, publicly chanting "white is right", and then intentionally targetting a black man, and calling him the N word while conducting a murder, and perhaps catching it on video to send to all his klansmen, then, that would obviously be a hate crime. Premeditation has an effect on sentencing. It needs to. Otherwise people could simply target, lets say, republicans, and go out on murder them with the sole intention of killing off republicans with a smaller sentence than deserved. That is akin to terrorism. Choosing to target members of one sole group or community. But, you tend to pick and choose your arguments, so I am sure you will see two mirrored examples and choose one that favours your side to be acceptable.

The brain of a 16 year old is not fully matured. That's why they can't vote, or even have a driver's license in this state. There are also heavy restrictions as to having a job at that age. By law his age wouldn't be a factor if he were 18 or 100, but at 16, he's an immature teenager and the law recognizes that. Hate crimes are garbage as there's no such thing as a "love crime". Crimes injure people and I don't think a crime is worse just because the people injured are a minority. In this case the only one really hurt was Walmart whose reputation is potentially damaged. Do you really think the black people in the store were falling to the ground crying because some pimply-faced teenager said they should leave the store?

Taskr - I think the black children who are just growing into self-acception stages would have been hurt, and probably crying, asking their parents why a public announcement was made that all black people had to leave the store. I think black adults who survived the civil rights movement and segregation would have been equally as hurt.

Lol, I had to do community service once as a kid (trespassing on school grounds after hours) my buddy was stuck doing that while I got a cushy gig doing laundry at an old folks home.

I agree on all counts. The kid does need a serious whooping by his dad. They should also make him watch racial sensitivity videos. Not because I think he'll learn anything, but because it will bore the crap out of him and be a good punishment at the beginning of his community service at the dump.

lol! I used to work at my town's dump ( ok, transfer station ), worked there for 3 years. We'd get these community service kids all the time. We would find the nastiest, dirtiest, smelliest jobs we could for them. things like, turning the compost pile with a shovel in the july sun,cleaning out the 6 month old garbage that accumulated behind the main compactor, sorting through the recycled steel cans (dog food cans smell absolutely amazing after a few days in the sun) and milk jugs and such. Piling tires all day in the storage trailer was another good task for them...especialy after a good rain.

You and I have vollied about this before - hating your victim shows premediation when committing a crime, and results in a harsher grade of punishments. I trust he would have been arrested in any scenario you hypothesized.

I disagree ladybug, if he hadn't targeted a "protected minority" he would have simply been asked to leave and not touch their PA system again. Rollo, I agree, he's a stupid teenager and many teenagers are stupid. For all we know he might have done this on a dare. The harassment charge amounts to petty disorderly conduct according to the statute so I have no issue with that, but using this stupid "bias intimidation" crap to up the penalty is stupid.

My black next door neighbor calls the other blacks in the neighborhood "ghetto blacks". Should she be arrested for a hate crime? Too much is being made of this. Teach the kid a lesson and go on.

The statement is not funny in itself but the fact some little kid got in there in the first place and had the heart to say that is kind of funny to me. Maybe I just have a morbid sense of humor. I'm not promoting or condoning this lil guy's ignorance just his timing.

And he should be punished...

I live in south Florida where we have a large hispanic population. In our local Wal-Mart announcements are made in English and Spanish. If I had heard someone who sounded hispanic making an announcement that all of the white people were to leave the store, I would not have thought it was funny. The flip side wouldn't have been funny either.

And again - when was the last time any white person was insulted because of their race and we were allowed to b-tch? Not once. Because we don't take EVERY situation and play the race card. Black Barbies cheaper at Wal-Mart than white Barbies? Racist. Bandaids are beige and not black? Racist. Hosptial floors are white and not black? Racist. Ever hear of affirmiative action? White people have to work 30 times harder and have twice the education to get a promotion and if there's a less qualified black woman, she gets it. Sucks, but what can we do? Not a damn thing.

Blacks have worked very hard to achieve equality in America. They have sufferred a great deal - I don't think you would take kindly to being asked to move to the back of the bus because someone who was "better than you" had to sit there. There is something very stigmatic about it, and something that just stings and stays with you. I didn't see any black people on tv saying they fainted, but, I would understand them being troubled by it, and, if they were old enough that they survived the civil rights movement, I can see where they may faint. It's a hard thing to handle. I try to things in view of a child, because they are innocent, and still young and naive and developing. No one would ever want to harm a child. If someone says something on a PA system that I could never say to a child, it is something really terrible.

I am not in favour of racism whether it is permitted by law or not. I think that the value of a human being does not depend on the colour of his skin.

Racism is not a crime. It is protected by the first amendment and our own current president spent 20 years in a church where the pastor preached racism.

I read an article that said Walmart has changed their systems to prevent such an occurence again so I'm betting they now require a code of some sort. That's the way our PA was at Office Depot when I worked there.

We agree that he shouldn't face jail time, because that is a very stern punishment, but he does need a stronger reprimand that being banned from walmart. This will go away soon enough, and maybe the whole arrest has learned him a lesson, but he really needs to know why it was wrong. He liberated the use of a PA system that wasn't his. - Okay, ban him from Walmart. He also made a hurtful and targetted remark. Banning him from walmart does not quite cover the remark he made. I am all for a creative judging idea, or even community service, but in a situation in which he would learn why his remark was not acceptable.

Well Walmart's intercom is accessible pretty much any where in the store so associates can use it easily. Sine this incident they've modified it so I think you need a code to activate it.

No, he has not been named for the same reasons you've mentioned. He's a juvenile and it's a petty crime. If it had been murder or rape he would probably be tried as an adult and named, but for things like this they protect the child's identity as he has the potential to get his record cleared or expunged when he becomes an adult.