The Islamic culture is in mourning.
By topffer
@topffer (42156)
France
January 29, 2013 2:39am CST
A very sad news came today : the library of the Ahmed Baba Institute in Timbuktu has been set on fire by the integrist Muslims before they left the town. There was about 110000 manuscripts there, some dated back to the 12th c. These manuscripts, brought back during centuries in Western Africa by the caravans selling gold in the Mediterranean basin -- Timbuktu was an intellectual and spiritual capital for Islam in the 15/16th centuries in this part of Africa -- were coming from all Islamic countries around the sea, from Spain to Egypt : it was a civilizational treasure, collected and restored with the help of the UNESCO since the 1970's. Only a few number of these manuscripts have been digitized, a large part is reduced in ashes now and has not been studied ; we can just hope that some of them have survived... It is a loss as important for the Arabic culture than the destruction of the library of Alexandria in the 7th century for the Antiquity.
How these people can have destroyed this library ? I was told that the integrist Muslims wanted to impose Islam by every possible means ; the Ahmed Baba Institute was built in 2009 as a center of research for Islamic studies : do the integrists need to reduce in ashes the historical basis of the Islamic culture to impose Islam ?
This is a terrible crime against the cultural heritage of Humanity.
Your comments are welcome.
2 people like this
10 responses
@topffer (42156)
• France
30 Jan 13
If an Orthodox and a Catholic are both Christians there are more differences between them than between Sunni and Shiite Muslims.
Anyways, when a large city like Constantinople is in fire it cannot be anything else than a disaster, even if it was not intended, so I will not argue here.
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
29 Jan 13
In my opinion, about 80% of muslims (and this 80% is higher when in countries like African, or even Pakistan or India) are orthodox, brainless people who follow what they are told to be right. They have no thinking brains as far as I can see. Otherwise how else do I or anyone else explain such an act of destroying ones own heritage. Maybe some sects in Islam were responsible.
@vandana7 (99256)
• India
29 Jan 13
I disagree with you sids...
They have brains...they are just in wrong situation. Orthodox yes, but not the kind that would like to force their religion on others. They may talk about their religion with every breath, yet they are not the people who believe that if the entire world were made of muslims, there would be no wars and only peace. They have accepted the realities of many middle eastern nations.
In India they are minorites still.. So if we harm them, it is their community that will stand by them. Given this situation, if one of theirs harms us, they dont have much choice other than be either silent or take side of the member from their community. This is because roles could easily be reversed considering the deep distrust that exists between Hindus and Muslims. So if anything like Bombay happens, they dont expect help from Hindus, they expect it only from Muslims. This is the reason, they support theirs all the time, everytime. Net net ...it is their insecurity...considering the ratios and history.
Most of my muslim friends have been good to me...and are religiously tolerant. However, one person was not. Ironically, I thought that boy would be the most religiously tolerant guy. May be something happened to create prejudice. And the one I thought was a fanatic turned out to be very broad minded. :)
1 person likes this
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
30 Jan 13
#Vandana:
I did leave out 20% of their community to be with brains dear, just because I too have some sane and logical muslim friends and it is just because of these 20% sake that I do not wish this community to be wiped out for the good of the planet. The Bamiyan Statues, all those Hindu Muslim riots, those wars of jihad, most of the wars after the World War II and the cold war era - they mostly have involved a set of muslims. Everyone (well most of them, know that all these things are just not needed in the present day world) but the community doesnt seem to be thinking on terms of global peace and harmony.
You mention their minority in India, what about the countries where they are in Majority? Pakistan, Afghanistan, Afrikans... They are however much in control and well behaved in the Emirates as there are less crimes and more of the people are aware of the laws.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
29 Jan 13
Vandalism is often something stupid that cannot be explained logically. Personally I was more afraid for the buildings of Timbuktu -- it is a world heritage site -- during this war, than for the manuscripts : I would also never have thought that the manuscripts could be in danger, especially after the call made by researchers ( http://www.bu.edu/wara/timbuktu/ ) saying that "If this heritage were to disappear, the development of African historiography would be seriously compromised and an important part of the world memory would be annihilated." This call has been signed by a large part of the Muslim intelligentsia all around the world. Only brainless barbarians can have burned these manuscripts...
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
3 Feb 13
I believe it is driven by fanaticism, fear and ignorance. A fanatic is always a frightening person no matter what the fanaticism is about. Someone who fears that their point of view is not going to be honored will also do things that they would not ordinarily do. And of course, ignorance is a sad lack of understanding of everything.
To destroy ones own recorded history is a form of self annihilation. Ones history is precious. Destruction of anyone's history is a sad state of affairs. I am very sorry this was done.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 Feb 13
Happily I read yesterday that the Timbuktu librarians managed to move the more interesting part of these manuscripts in Bamako where they are safe
.
I summed up a French article in Lamb's box giving a beginning of explanation : the integrists are not from the same current of Islam than the people living in Timbuktu and their lack of education made them behave badly against monuments and books that were not sharing their views... You are right : it looks like fanaticism at its best
.
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I summed up a French article in Lamb's box giving a beginning of explanation : the integrists are not from the same current of Islam than the people living in Timbuktu and their lack of education made them behave badly against monuments and books that were not sharing their views... You are right : it looks like fanaticism at its best. @vandana7 (99256)
• India
29 Jan 13
They have created an anti integrists feeling by doing that...
I am sure many educated muslims would have felt the pain...and must be feeling ashamed of such integrists. And many more who were perhaps inclined to be amongst the integrists would check themselves...
In the end, god knows what is best for us humans...as yet, we are not that intolerable, otherwise, Mayan predictions would have come true. :)
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
29 Jan 13
Confronted to an act of vandalism like this one, I am stunned. I met in the past several persons who worked in Mali to collect and restore these manuscripts. So many universities around the world contributed to save them that nobody could ignore their value in Timbuktu : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbuktu_Manuscripts
I am sure that all educated Muslims are deploring this loss. This fire is the height of stupidity, and against stupidity there is nothing to do...
@louievill (28851)
• Philippines
29 Jan 13
Nice to see you back my friend with another " educated" discussion that i sometimes long for
, anyway , i can't understand it either and it does not really matter what religion, The Spanish Conquestadores burnt and destroyed a lot of records and knowledge of countries they conquered as well as traditional practices, Mayan. Incan to name a few all in the name of religion. We even lost the technique how to make mummies which was outlawed and some historians would swear that Philippine mummies were one of the best, well preserved without the use of wrapping or bandages and things like that
. My good when people destroy records we might have forever destroyed an ancient cure for cancer and other fatal disease
, I think this is all insane, but it happens along the history of mankind.
, anyway , i can't understand it either and it does not really matter what religion, The Spanish Conquestadores burnt and destroyed a lot of records and knowledge of countries they conquered as well as traditional practices, Mayan. Incan to name a few all in the name of religion. We even lost the technique how to make mummies which was outlawed and some historians would swear that Philippine mummies were one of the best, well preserved without the use of wrapping or bandages and things like that . My good when people destroy records we might have forever destroyed an ancient cure for cancer and other fatal disease, I think this is all insane, but it happens along the history of mankind.1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
29 Jan 13
Hello friend,
I have been so stunned by this news that I wrote this discussion immediately, the first since a long time. I met long ago several people working in Timbuktu to save this cultural heritage. Timbuktians are peaceful people with a sort of wisdom that you still find in Africa where "time" has not the same meaning than elsewhere. They do not deserve this ! All the books were not about religion ; scientific domains where also present in this library : maths, astronomy, botanic,... and indeed medicine. They were showing how bright was the Arabic culture at the time of the Spanish conquest of America. It is difficult to compare Spanish conquistadores with these guys : Spanish wanted to impose their culture and religion ; these integrists have the same religion than people in Timbuktu and have burnt here their own cultural heritage. By destroying this library, they have written a completely stupid page of the history of Humanity.
. I met long ago several people working in Timbuktu to save this cultural heritage. Timbuktians are peaceful people with a sort of wisdom that you still find in Africa where "time" has not the same meaning than elsewhere. They do not deserve this ! All the books were not about religion ; scientific domains where also present in this library : maths, astronomy, botanic,... and indeed medicine. They were showing how bright was the Arabic culture at the time of the Spanish conquest of America. It is difficult to compare Spanish conquistadores with these guys : Spanish wanted to impose their culture and religion ; these integrists have the same religion than people in Timbuktu and have burnt here their own cultural heritage. By destroying this library, they have written a completely stupid page of the history of Humanity.@louievill (28851)
• Philippines
1 Feb 13
Even the mighty Caesar only accidentally burned down the Royal or Ancient library of Alexandria during the reign of the Ptolemys when he set fire on his own ships
1 person likes this
@samar54 (2454)
• Egypt
31 Jan 13
that are very sad news , no one Muslim agree to do that , these manuscripts has a great value to Muslims and to human , but from what I read in many sites , no one know the truth yet if who did that are the Muslim in the north or other because the town is closed .
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 Feb 13
Hello Pose,
At least, there is a good news : I have read yesterday that a large part of those manuscripts are safe in Bamako where they have been moved by the librarians just before the integrists came in Timbuktu last summer. The move was not yet finished when they entered in the town, but the most interesting part has been saved.
.
@purplealabaster (22094)
• United States
29 Jan 13
I have absolutely no idea what these people were thinking, doing or trying to prove with this seemingly senseless act. The only thing that came to mind is that perhaps the historical facts that were contained within these documents goes against what they are trying to do or have people believe (their long-range plans, goals and mission), so destroying the documents would be the first step to convincing people that what they are preaching is correct as there would no longer be anything to prove them wrong.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
29 Jan 13
I think it is pure stupidity and senseless. Yes, some pre-islamic manuscripts/documents were in this library, but today Mali is at 90% a Muslim country, and these manuscripts were belonging to History. Several very old priceless Qurans were also in this library and have probably also burnt !
@kingparker (9673)
• United States
30 Jan 13
Some people simply are savage, and they disregard the value of historical antiquity. If they are against the people, or certain group of people, why not do it peacefully without doing anything violent. I definitely respect Ghandi who had done a tremendous way to express what is justice and what is not.
@topffer (42156)
• France
30 Jan 13
They could have disregarded them without destroying them... and if they do not realize that they have destroyed their own cultural heritage, I pity them. It is rare when peaceful manifestations of opinion are enough to change a regime, like in India or in Eastern Germany in 1989/1990. Sadly violence and wars have still a future in our world.
