Calling all Catholics, could you please answer a couple questions for me?
By filmbuff
@filmbuff (2909)
United States
April 27, 2007 10:00pm CST
I've had a couple questions about the Catholic religion for quite sometime and I'm hopeing some of you Catholics out there can answer them for me. The first question I have is about the prayer to and worship of Mary. To me it seems from the outside looking in that this would be a form of idolatry-- it appears that Mary is being worshipped as a G-d. My nest question is along the same lines, and is about Saints. I'm not sure what exactly makes a person a saint, although I do know there is a long cannonization process involved. I see so many pray to Saints and ask saints to watch over them, but again this seem like worshipping idols and not the great "I am."
I would really love to hear your opinions and views because these are real questions that I have, I'm not meaning to offend anyone, I'm just curious and would love to hear your thoughts and view on the matter. Thanks again.
6 people like this
8 responses
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
1 May 07
Hello Filmbuff,
I am not religious. I am however, very spiritual. I was raised Catholic, and still respect much about the faith. I do not submit to all the dogma of Catholicism nor any church.
And, where I would typically get all theosophical when discussing historical matters of spirit, I find this discussion very pragmatic. I really think that this saint and Mary issue is quite simple. Maybe it is so, only in my own head. So, I'll explain how it seems to me, and then you can decide if it's really simple and pragmatic at all.
Grace is like a dsl filter for your computer. With grace, the communication process is much freer of static and white noise. The saints are in a perpetual state of grace. We are not! So, asking for one who is free of the white noise of temptation, sin, human frailty to intercede on our behalf to present a clearer, most inspired communicae, just makes sense.
Why is Mary asked to intercede more than any other saint? Because Mary was God's chosen, most holy human being ever. In addition to being purer of heart from birth, Mary also experienced the addtional infusion of purity as a result of becoming one with God and the Holy Spirit as Jesus grew in her womb. If there was any trace of original sin on Mary before she was impregnated, there certainly wasn't afterward. So again, it just makes sense to seek out the clearest conduit when seeking The Father's guidance, help, or forgiveness.
Does that make sense?
4 people like this
@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
2 May 07
Thanks so much for the response ladyluna, your explanation does make a lot of sense. If you would, could you maybe try to clear up or clarify the issue of all the idols of Mary that seem to be present in Catholic church, and how the use of them is, or is not considered idolatry? Thanks again.
2 people like this
@wolves69 (755)
• United States
28 Apr 07
I'm a former Catholic, and have debated the very same questions. The best way to look at the saints question is to compare it to someone asking for assistance from a loved one who has passed. Basically, someone who can intercede with God on your behalf. There are no worshiping of saints, they are just people with a title who lived good lives and will help guide others in this world. They are someone to emulate or honor, much like putting wreaths at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.
As for the Mary part. The earliest church debated this topic extensively on how to honor the Mother of God. In many ways, this has developed into a cult of personality. I've never really been able to grasp the full concept; thus, my disillusionment with the Catholic Church. I could never find any authoritative reference putting her above all saints or to the status she enjoys now.
Surprisingly, Mary is mentioned in the Koran as well.
3 people like this
@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
28 Apr 07
Thanks for jumping in and shareing your views wolves69. You do help to clear up the matter of Saints for me, seems a little weird wanting someone to interceed on your behalf when dealing with the divine, but it is a common practice in a lot of religions. I still don't get the Mary thing, I'm always hearing about sightings of her, and people turning out in droves to be healed. Or even the "hail mary" prayer. Thanks again for your post.
@dickkell (403)
• United States
28 Apr 07
It's not really strange if you think about it. How many people ask others to pray for them everyday? And, if someone knows a pastor or other religious leader in the workplace, they are constantly being asked to pray because it is assumed they are closer to God. Carry that to it's extreme, and asking the Saints to intercede makes a lot more sense. Christians believe that people never die, so why shouldn't they be able to pray in Heaven? Jesus prays in Heaven. We have a picture in revelation of the souls under the altar praying for God's justice on their killers. It makes sense that people who don't die shouldn't be treated as if they no longer exist. I don't know if the saints can hear us ask for their help or not, I'm not catholic, but the belief makes a lot more sense to me now.
1 person likes this
@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
30 Apr 07
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I can understand I guess why someone would want someone to pray for them, or someone else to request divine intervention for them, however it still seems strange to me on a personal level. I wouldn't want another to try to intervine for me, because really that's my job, but that again is my opinion. You raise an interesting question, about a person being "closer to g-d" than you are. On the surface I would be against agreeing with it, but after further contemplation I would have to agree there are those who are closer than others. Thanks again for your reply and sharing your insight.
@rdurusan (624)
• Philippines
30 Apr 07
Mary is the mother of Jesus in the flesh,meaning Mary is just like you and me and everybody else.Jesus is the Son of God meaning he is a God and he use his body as a vehicle to transform his godhood to manhood.He cannot feel the pain,the suffering, the agony,the emotions in a man if he is sent by his Father in his state of godhood.So Mary is like a tool used by God to conceive Jesus.True Mary is blessed to be the mother of Jesus in the flesh,but that doesn't mean she is to be worship,because that is contradictory to the teachings of Jesus.Saints are people who live a holy life in his days,and only God can declare if a person is a saint or a devil.If you declare a man as a saint,then you are acting as God although you are not a God.That is blasphemy in the eyes of God.Given that a person is a saint like Peter,it is still against the will of God because only God is to be worship,no intercessions or any form of riding.
1 person likes this
@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
1 May 07
I agree with you about the saint issue rdurusan but as I stated before it is all people who on this earth declare one person holier than another, because g-d does not manifest on earth to proclaim a person a saint, or someone to be followed. As to the worship of Mary I agree with you, but I always see idols of Mary, and catholics praying to her (and the saints) and that is what I don't understand. Thanks for your response.
@maildumpster (3815)
• United States
3 May 07
I am a former Catholic that left the church because they didn't follow God's word.
The 10 Commandments clearly forbid the worship of anyone but God. Catholics are taught to pray to Mary and the 'saints' regardless of the bible. They are not taught the bible.
Saints are people that the CHURCH has declared as such. Saints are mentioned in the bible but it has nothing to do with what the Catholic church teaches.
The Catholic church teaches that Mary is as honored as God himself.
They light candles when praying which goes back to the pagan roots of the Roman Catholic religion brought about by Emporer Constantine.
You have not offended me. I am assuming you are Jewish since you wrote G-d. I hope I have not offended you by not doing the same.
1 person likes this
@maildumpster (3815)
• United States
4 May 07
Catholics do not refer to their bibles during mass. The entire mass is a ritual. We are taught the steps and everyone follows along like lemmings.
It is all dogma. Even the "sacraments" are rituals created by the church. Take baptism - the bible does not have any incidents of infant baptism. People believe and are baptized. Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Notice the belief comes before the baptism. The belief is what does the saving not the baptism. Babies don't even know about God so how can they believe?
When I was in Catholic school I got in trouble often cause I wanted the nun that was my religion teacher to reconcile what she was teaching with the bible. I got in big trouble when I declared that we didn't need to go to confession.
Just man made rules that have been used to replace most of God's laws.
**Before anyone attack me please do remember that I am a former Catholic. Went through all the sacraments up to and including confirmation.**
1 person likes this
@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
5 May 07
Hopefully nobody will be attacking anybody here, these are honest questions I have, and honest responses have been given that have been meant to educate, not attack.
Another question I have for you, is I'm curious if Latin is still used during the rituals and the services, and if so to what degree? Are catholics still taught latin?
1 person likes this
@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
4 May 07
You have not offended me in the slightest maildumpster and I really do appreciate your thoughts and views. I find it interesting that as you said, "Catholics are taught to pray to Mary and the Saints." That does seem very at odds with the ten commandments. I'm also surprised that they are not taught the bible but instead dogma I assume. Thanks so much for posting and shareing your experiences.
1 person likes this
@wertzburg1 (200)
• United States
3 May 07
It is a form of idolatry to worship Mary or pray to her. I once heard from a Catholic friend that they pray to Mary and the saints to get a different perspective on something or to be heard from a different "personality". But I ask, why do you need a different perspective when God knows all things and can do more than you ask or imagine? Only pray to Him, because He's the only one that can help.
Also, about saints, if you are a born again Christian, then you are a saint. So really, everyone that's in Christ is a saint. Not just John or Paul or Peter. I'm a saint according to the Bible. So if you wish to pray to a saint, why not pray to me? See my point? Praying to saints again is pointless and helps nothing.
Only the one true God can listen to and answer prayers. Giving your prayers to anyone else is just you talking to yourself with no response.
@tombiz (2036)
• Philippines
13 Jul 07
I was a former Catholic faithful. Like them, I also sincerely believed in the doctrine of Mary and the saints. Well, that was the past. Now, my eyes are already opened to the deception orchestrated by this great Catholic Church. Granted, this church has over a billion members. But numbers is never the basis for the truth. Catholic Church has never been a bible-based church. Its history is full of bloodshed and conspiracy to hide the truth. Praying to Mary and the saints had never been done by the apostles and the early Christians, so why should we do it these days?
@laridbz (1280)
• China
19 Jul 07
I am Catholic in theory. I was raised by my mother to be one, but it seems I didn't listen that much to her words when I was little. Hehehe!
Anyway, as some people said before me, the church nominates the saints. There are several rules for people to become a saint, including proofs of miracles the person did. Recently a Brazilian fella became a saint when the Pope visited my country. Besides the miracles, I don't know what is required.
About Mary... Well, I have no idea why she is so whorshiped. Sorry. :D