Should Prs. Bush Veto the Hate Speech bill just passed by the House of Reps?
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
May 3, 2007 5:55pm CST
If this bill becomes law, Evangelical Christian ministers could be charged if some of their members commit a violent crime against a homosexual, if the minister spoke against homosexuality.
Many liberals might support that, but think about it. The same law could lead to Rage Against the Machine, The Offspring or Ice T, being charged if one of their fans committed a violent crime against conservatives or the police.
Hate may be a motivation for a crime, but it isn't a crime itself. Let's not chip away at free thought.
Not only should it be vetoed, there is no excuse that it even made it to his desk.
6 people like this
9 responses
@mjsdls (1840)
• United States
4 May 07
I do think this bill should be passed. Americans were based on Christian beliefs and now people are trying to take this away. Since Christian beliefs have been taken out of our schools and public places look how much America has gone down hill.
Plus your right, everyone else has free speech why not Christians?
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
4 May 07
I take it you mean it should "not" be passed?
If so, I agree with you.
2 people like this
@Destiny007 (5805)
• United States
4 May 07
I think this stupid bill should be vetoed.
Being gay is nothing more than a lifestyle choice no matter what the gay community or anyone else claims.
If we allow special protection for a lifestyle choice then we need to allow the same protection to everyone, which is how the law in this country is supposed to work in the first place.
This goes to show that the democrats have nothing useful to offer to the country.
2 people like this
@PsychoDude (2013)
• Netherlands
4 May 07
Although I don't know the exact details here I suppose that it'd be wise enough to have the bill not only apply to hate speech against homosexuals, but any group. Whether it be homosexuals, black people, illegal immigrants, other religions, etcetera if a minister decides to spread hate against it and that leads in a violent crime or murder then the minister will be partially held responsible for it as well.
And being gay is less of a lifestyle choice than many religious people think, although they are quite easy with saying no to everything science comes with until 500 years have passed by.
So I guess that's the difference then between democrats and republicans? Whereas the democrats want equal treatment for everybody the republicans are ok with setting others to murder?
3 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
4 May 07
Exactly, this law is discrimination in itself. It makes it somehow worse to attack a gay person than anyone else.
@PsychoDude (2013)
• Netherlands
4 May 07
I wouldn't really call it a special status, they are running an unwanted increased risk because a bunch of utter morons feel the need to mentally and physically abuse, beat up, rape, kill and whatever to certain groups.
Now if normal regulations don't work, adjusted regulations should simply come into place to protect them. After all it's the governments task to protect its people, not to let them slaughter each other. So if the special protection is needed for something which you claim to be a lifestyle choice and I say it just as much of a lifestyle choice as being born black then that special protection simply is needed.
I also don't really see the issue to be quite honest, what does extra protection for them matter? Are you planning to beat one up yourself? If you simply live by the law and respect each other you shouldn't even come in touch with this new decision.
3 people like this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
4 May 07
All hate crime legislation is moronic.
Murder is against the law. Assault is against the law. Battery is against the law. The penalties for all these crimes should be severe.
Making the penalty more severe on the basis of race or other factor amounts to discrimination and undermines the principal of equality under the law.
All legislators, especially the ones who are lawyers, know what I'm saying is true. They simply do not have the courage to tell their constituents or are involved in manipulating their constituent's emotions for political gain.
So, YES, I agree that President Bush should veto any and all hate crime legislation that comes to his desk.
2 people like this
@shane69 (65)
• United States
6 May 07
Once upon a time there were clergy in this country that used the color of people's skin to get white people in a fervor. They used these techniques to bring people into the church. There is a violent storm brewing in the bowels of the churches in this country and it could cause great harm to the gay community.Take a look around this website for all of the "freedom of expression" that really comes down to pure hate crimes. You can say anything on here and as long as someone doesn't openly use swear words they can proliferate their trash. They hide behind the bible just like a bunch of cowards, pionting their ugly litte fingers of hate, of which, they should turn on themselves. While I feel that people shouldn't be arrested for their thoughts they should step back and take notice of the kind of world they are creating for their children. People will lose a loved ones today purely because of hate. May God have mercy on thier souls.
1 person likes this
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
7 May 07
Shane, I agree to a point. But if you have the right to speak for gay rights, you cannot fight the right to speak against them.
We can only seek to educate. I am confindent that the age of gay hate is a past age. People are beginning to see and understand. We need to stand on the front lines and complete that education, but we cannot take away their rights. If we do, then our rights mean nothing. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. Take care.
1 person likes this
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
4 May 07
The bill is not about speech it is about crime. It is about adding GLBT people to the list of minorities that are already protected. In fact the bill explicitly states that it is in no way intended to stop free speech. I won't go into the homosexuality issue at this point. But read the bill as it is written. It is not at all about speech. It is about physical harm. I'm curious to know where you have gotten your information.
hate crime laws already protect people from being physically harmed on teh basis of their religion, gender, race, nationality or disability. The bill seeks to add sexuality to the list. Would you instead suggest dropping hate crime laws all together?
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 May 07
So if a minister was preaching against homosexuality, and one of the perisheners went out and beat up a few gay people, this bill wouldn't make it so the preacher could be charged for inciting the one who committed the crime?
Remember, there are a lot of politicians and activists who consider it hate speech to simply disagree with the gay rights agenda.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 May 07
Cyntrow, we can absolutely agree that no one should be beaten simply because of who they date. Anyone who commits a violent crime against a gay person should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They shouldn't be prosecuted for physically attacking a gay person though, they should be prosecuted for physically attacking a person.
As or your example, that was before this bill was enacted, so it really doesn't work as an example of what could be against the law after it is enacted.
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
5 May 07
Im sorry, but you are incorrect. If you read that bill, it specifically states that it will not infringe upon a person's right to free speech. It is only to add gay people to the already determined list of groups that if physical harm is inflicted for the reason of their status, it becomes a federal offfense. Please read the bill again. I would never support a law that infringes upon free speech whether I agree with the speech or not.
2 people like this
@Lady_Justice (969)
• United States
4 May 07
Hate crime legislation should be vetoed. It will become a vehicle for silencing some. Besides, a crime is not suddenly worse and worthy of greater punishment if it's committed against certain groups of people. Violence is just as hateful when done to anyone else as it is when done to minorities or gays. And, think about it, most crimes are against people that somebody hates. You cannot control or legislate thoughts and feelings. There are already laws for assault, murder, etc., to hold people accountable if they abuse gays OR anyone else.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 May 07
It think Hate Crime legislation in all its forms is stupid. It is nothing but a feeble attempt to fight bigotry by being bigotted.
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
4 May 07
So would you suggest dropping hate crime laws that are already on the books??
The law as it is now makes it a federal offense to cause physical harm to a person strictly on the basis of their gender, race, nationality, religion or disability. The bill seeks to add sexuality to this list.
1 person likes this
@Lady_Justice (969)
• United States
5 May 07
Cyntrow,
Yes, I would repeal all so=called "hate" laws, because as I said, crimes against ANYONE are just as bad as crimes against special groups.
1 person likes this
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
8 May 07
Preachers preach against stealing.. if some nut or hate crazed person kills a thief, does that make pastors responsible?
1 person likes this
@shane69 (65)
• United States
9 May 07
I really fee that is a big stretch. Most court decisions I have seen really would not allow someone to be prosecuted unless they were an accomplice or complicit to the crime (it means they knew it would happen). I feel that people should have the right to speak their mind as long as they don't make direct threats or break the law by harrassing indidviduals. It would be nice to see people I disagree with locked up but they would lock me up first, I am sure LOL.
@SageMother (2277)
• United States
4 May 07
I think the bill should be passed. We have all tolerated hatred in the name of religion for long enough. One's personal convictions about what god approves of can be expressed by their own behavior and should not infringe on t hose who don't have that same belief. We have CIVIL law to allow for the beliefs of many. This bill is just insuring that CIVIL law is respected.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
4 May 07
Unless I misunderstood what you said, you kind of contradict yourself here.
This bill would make stating a personal convictions a crime. It is already illegal to attack or tell someone else to attack someone. This bill would make it "hate speech" to simply state that the gay lifestyle is sinful or wrong.
1 person likes this
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
6 May 07
I can't say I'm suprised. I predicted these kinds of laws after the election. We are now slowly going to starte headed towards a more eropean styled system of laws. Not that I dislike Europe, it's just that, well, we're NOT europe. We do not want to be Europe. the first amandment exists for a reason. Our our jails not full enough with petty offenders? How much of life can you regulate before it becomes sterile and bland. I am apposed to government control of many things as those who read my posts know. This one REALLY rubs me raw though.