Should students stand for national anthem?
By bonbon664
@bonbon664 (3466)
Canada
May 25, 2007 8:32am CST
Ok, here's the story in a nutshell. A student refused to stand during the national anthem. Teacher kicks student out of class, and won't let him back till he apologizes. Guess who gets suspended??? You're right, the teacher!! 10 days without pay! DO you believe it?! To me, this story says a lot about the moral decay of our society. The parents and principal should have kicked his butt back to class, and made him apologize. The parents are irresponsible, and the principal has no courage to stand up for his employees. Sickens me.
What do you think?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070525.TEACHER25/TPStory/Education
12 people like this
45 responses
@MJLami (1173)
• United States
25 May 07
That child is learning wrong and its parent(s)/guardian(s) are responsible not the teacher that attempted to help it and was suspended without pay for doing so. If our children do not learn patriosm now when will they and what does this mean for the future of our great country?
4 people like this
@tala91285 (1074)
• Philippines
25 May 07
That's just so wrong! The teacher should at least be commended for respecting the national anthem. Here in the Philippines, people stand up when they play our national anthem - even inside movie houses! National anthems describe a country, its history and the love that its children should feel towards it. You're right about that act. It shows moral decay in the people nowadays, a moral decay that eats not only your country, but every nation in the world..
3 people like this
@bonbon664 (3466)
• Canada
25 May 07
I'm sorry that your country means nothing to you. I feel pride for my country, and it's free place where you can practice anything you like. For that reason, I think people should show a little respect for the symbols of the country like the national anthem.
3 people like this
@evelynlyp (788)
• Japan
25 May 07
You won't have a future without a past. You need to remember the past to avoid makin g mistakes in the future.
It doesn't matter if a national anthem doesn't meant anything to a person, what matters is showing respect.
I wonder what kind of country it will be if everyone in the country has no sense of respect?
1 person likes this
@oogie_boogie (362)
•
25 May 07
But isnt the world about the future? Not dwelling in the past. The national anthem means nothing to me. And I cant see how people would be offended becuase of this. A country is the place you live, to me it means nothing more. If there are people who feel the same as me why should we be forced to do something with disagree with.I think it was stupid of the the teacher to take it so personally.
3 people like this
@bindishah (2062)
• India
25 May 07
I agree with you. Standing up for your national anthem is a mark of respect. And if we dont teach children how to respect who will? The teacher was absolutely right in doing what he/she did.
3 people like this
@revdauphinee (5703)
• United States
25 May 07
it just goes to show how debased this societu has become and with some of these folks (like the kids parents )If God wont help us who will?
3 people like this
@retardedrugrat (4791)
• Canada
25 May 07
I disagree with this.
I don't think a student should be forced to stand and sing the National Anthem if he doesn't want to. And who's to say that it's the fault of the parents? How does this make them irresponsible?? Their son made the decision not to stand, they didn't force him not to.
Students have minds of their own and they're able to use them. The article states that there is no policy requiring students to stand for the national anthem, so why should he have done so if he didn't want to?
I think the teachers punishment is right. Forcing a student to do something that isn't a requirement is wrong and shouldn't be allowed.
3 people like this
@bonbon664 (3466)
• Canada
25 May 07
The student wasn't asked to do anything humiliating, or against any religious beliefs. He was asked to stand for 2 minutes. I'm saying that I think it's disrespectful, and I'm not asking students to do whatever teachers tell them. If it's illegal, or immoral, of course students shouldn't do it. I do think that students should do what is asked of them. I'm hoping that becasue the school board currently doesn't have a policy that students should stand, I hope they will in future.
2 people like this
@retardedrugrat (4791)
• Canada
25 May 07
Evelyn, a student swearing or being abusive in class is a totally different scenario!
This student had the right to choose whether or not he should stand for the national Anthem and he chose not to. There's no right or wrong answer here, he simply chose to exercise his right.
Just because he's still in school doesn't mean he shouldn't be afforded the same rights as anyone else living in Canada.
1 person likes this
@evelynlyp (788)
• Japan
25 May 07
Would you say that it is right thing to do to over look a child if they use foul language to teachers and such? Its also not part of requriement to be polite.
Isn't it part of the school's duty to teach students respect, manners and discipline so that one day they are fit to run the country? What kind of country will it be if everyone was self centered and does anything they feel like doing?
2 people like this
@whyaskq (7523)
• Singapore
25 May 07
In school, I feel the student will need to abide by the school rules. School have strict rules about standing for national anthem. It is one way to teach the students how to show respect. The state flag is a symbolic representation and if the student is able to respect it sincereley, the student will grow up to becoming a respectful person, giving people their due respect.
If the school is not able to teach and instil respect in the student, I would think the school has failed in its mission.
3 people like this
@bonbon664 (3466)
• Canada
25 May 07
Unfortunately in our country, the teachers have very little power now. The parents don't support them, and either do the school boards.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 May 07
I believe the kid had a right to not stand for the National Anthem... But it also shows how much of a spoiled jerk he is for not appreciating the very right he exercised.
3 people like this
@swetha2rani (341)
• India
25 May 07
Every person should have some respect for their country they live in. They need to stand during the National Anthem. The story just makes me feel like making the principal and parents learn morals and even teach morals and values to the child. Spare the stick and spoil the child is something that the story says.
3 people like this
@rowantree (1186)
• United States
25 May 07
I don't care what anyone else says or thinks, we live in a fantastic country and if you are a citizen of this country, then you show it respect by standing for the national anthem and saying the Pledge of Allegiance. There's no excuse. The student who refused to stand for the national anthem should be suspended - what is wrong with his parents? I teach my children that it is required that they stand, with hand over heart, for the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem. My daughter once asked me about saying "One Nation Under God", she didn't want to say this because we are Pagan. I let her know some facts about this line, that it was added many, many, many years later. I told her that "God" can mean any religion's God or Higher Spirit and the main point of the Pledge and the anthem is respect for our country and that we will always, no matter what religion, show respect. I then compared the US to some other countries and she was stunned to learn that everyone doesn't share the same freedoms, the same abilities, the same opportunities. It all comes down to a matter of respect for your country. If you don't have respect for your country, then move out! The student sounds like a spoiled brat!
2 people like this
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
26 May 07
"if you are a citizen of this country"
thats the thing, not all of us ARE citizens of the U.S....
1 person likes this
@evelynlyp (788)
• Japan
25 May 07
You are such a good mom rowan. I like your attitude. I love it when parents take time to explain things to children instead of forcing them to do things without understanding why they should.
You make me wish you were my mom =)
2 people like this
@rowantree (1186)
• United States
26 May 07
Ok you've completely embarrassed me. :) I want to print out your comment & paste it on the fridge for those days when I feel like a complete failure as a parent!
I am a stickler for explaining things, since I was one of those kids growing up whose vocabulary consisted only of "why?" and I never got answers. Ever. Sometimes I drive my own kids nuts over-explaining things! Thanks for your extremely kind words!
1 person likes this
@oogie_boogie (362)
•
25 May 07
I disagree A student should not be forced to do something they do not believe in. its like forced prayer in school i think thats ridiculous if a student doenst believe in it then they shouldnt be forced to do it.
If this student really felt that strongly about not doing the national anthem then they shoudlnt have to do it. theyu are there to learn not sing songs.
2 people like this
@bonbon664 (3466)
• Canada
25 May 07
The national anthem is not meant to be a sing-a-long. He was asked to stand, not sing. By not standing, the student was disrespecting the teacher and the country. If he doesn't want to stand during the anthem, he should go to a school where it's not required.
4 people like this
@oogie_boogie (362)
•
25 May 07
But it shouldnt be required. People should not be forced to do what they do not believe in. If he did not want to take part they shouldnt have tried to force him. If it was something important such as somnething to do with school work i would agree with forcing him but it was only the national anthem.
2 people like this
@bonbon664 (3466)
• Canada
25 May 07
He's in the public school system, there is no prayer, just the anthem. I don't think it's too much to ask to respect your country. He had no good reason for not standing, it sounds like he was just being a brat.
3 people like this
@argie713 (1809)
• Philippines
25 May 07
I think it's wrong. That guy should have respected the national anthem. Too much for the rights of the people. If they don't know how to respect the flag. They must not be protected by its constitution. Most people right now whine about the respect that they don't get. They must learn to look at themselves first before asking for respect.
3 people like this
@bkneerajrk (773)
• India
25 May 07
One should be always proud of standing for national anthem. Right from school days I felt so proud to stand for the national anthem. The decision taken by the principal must be strongly opposed and must be reported to the education board. The children of today are the saviors of tomorrow. If they are not taught to respect our important national symbols like anthem, flag etc how will they be standing before the nation as a shield during the time of trials..
2 people like this
@evelynlyp (788)
• Japan
25 May 07
You are proud because it is your country. You can't expect a foreigner to be proud of your country. The kid may be from a different country. However I agree he should at least show respect by standing.
1 person likes this
@Death4life (41)
• United States
25 May 07
Obviously they should ! They should respect their countries national anthem as well as other countries national anthem too !
2 people like this
@bonbon664 (3466)
• Canada
25 May 07
Apparently it's not as obvious as you and I think. Judging by a lot of comments, people think he should have to stand.
1 person likes this
@DreamTwist (6)
• United States
25 May 07
Honestly it should be up to the student alone whether or not he should stand to the national anthem. Because everyone has their own beliefs, it's good to see people standing up for their own beliefs, even if it may offend you, or anyone else.
Saying that he should be punished for it, would be like punishing someone for something, for example, a different religion. So the teacher trying to punish him for that, I would think, got off easy.
2 people like this
@bonbon664 (3466)
• Canada
25 May 07
It's not the same thing as religion in my view. The Lords Prayer is not said in schools because we are so diverse, and people didn't want to pray. But, the reason that our country is so great is that everyone can be different, and that's great, but, I think the anthem is one of the things that brings us together, and gives us commonality.
What belief is he standing up for by not standing up while the anthem is being played?
1 person likes this
@evelynlyp (788)
• Japan
25 May 07
When a person stands up for something, the first thing that comes to your head is that he is showing respect. The next few ideas that comes to the mind is "belief". Say you are in a court room and you are asked to stand up for the judge. Do you say you are showing believe in the person or are you showing respect?
1 person likes this
@DreamTwist (6)
• United States
25 May 07
He is standing up for his own belief, whatever it may be, it made him not want to stand for the anthem.
I was born here in America, but I have never sung the National Anthem, I stood up for it yes, but I would never sing it. That doesn't mean I am not American, and it also doesn't mean I have no respect for my country. All it means, is I don't believe in singing the National Anthem, I think that singing that song is pointless. He chose to stay in his seat. You can't punish someone for that.
The way I see it, it is much like religion, religion is just a foundation of beliefs. Same thing as singing the National Anthem. Singing the National Anthem is a foundation of beliefs, and many people all over the country do it. But if someone fails to sing. You can't say they should be punished. Because that's the same thing as punishing someone for different beliefs. If everyone in this country was forced to sing it or be punished, how diverse would we really be?
2 people like this
@katisaurus (1038)
• Canada
26 May 07
I think it's disrespectful. I actually got in to an arguement with a student at my school. They said it was against their religion (she's from pakistan) to stand up for the anthem... I was a little harsh, but it's true.. When a country not your original country, has granted you citizenship and welcomed you in to the country with pride and respect.. You should return the respect and stand for the two minute anthem in the morning, or whenever it's played. Students need to stand for the anthem, it's a respectful thing to do. It's sad that a teacher gets suspended for doing what all teachers should and would most likely do.
1 person likes this
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
26 May 07
"When a country not your original country, has granted you citizenship"
why does everyone assume that just becuase we LIVE HERE we are now Citizens?? I will NEVER EVER become a U.S Citizen EVER! WHY? because I refuse to give up my Canadian and British Status which is exactly what I would have to do and that aint happening!
1 person likes this
@katisaurus (1038)
• Canada
26 May 07
technically you're still a "citizen".. maybe not a legal one, but you're still residing there..making you a citizen.
1 person likes this
@sandwedge (1339)
• Malaysia
26 May 07
i think its disrespectful for anyone that does not stand - no matter if its their country or not. even flag burning protestors in other countries stand when they burn the flag.
when religion comes into the picture especially those who are from JW, do not stand for national anthem or pledge alliegence to the flag. WHAT does religion have to go with respecting the flag?? we have a few of those where i live and i still cannot understand the limitations they impose on themselves.
1 person likes this
@ladymoonstone143 (1507)
• United States
26 May 07
Can you imagine that? If you are still a student, you are still currently learning and respecting the national anthem should be one of them. By showing respect, you do a great thing for your country. Standing for a few minutes won't hurt a person or make you less a person.
This just shows what kind of leaders are we having in the future? The youngsters nowadays are the hope of their own country. But with the attitude of these kids nowadays, you have to ask, where does a country headed for with the kind of generation they are having?
The parents got the first responsibility to teach their child and should support the school in molding these students for their bright future. That is why we sent our kids to school, to learn.
1 person likes this
@webbuff (926)
• Philippines
25 May 07
yes they should anybody in different country do the same thing.. as part of their respect to their country. But on your story, i feel bad about the teacher.. he/she should have a warning first for first obstruction then if he/she did it again you can now suspend him/her.
1 person likes this
@evelynlyp (788)
• Japan
25 May 07
Perhaps this is not the first time the student did this. He may have had a warning already. I don't any teacher will do anything without giving a warning to the student on a previous similar incident.
@a_ce_e (1422)
• Philippines
26 May 07
I had read the newspaper, in my point of view. I am against from the teacher's act of giving an ultimatum to the student to apologize, i know the teacher is trying to discipline the student but he might say it in a nice manner. He might approach the student regarding the act of not standing for the national anthemn and keep reminding that student..have "lots of patience". For the principal and parent, it is a drastic move to give the teacher a 10-day suspension, this action shows that the principal seemed to be bias. You're right the principal cannot stand up for his employees, therefore i presume that school should get teachers who are programmed to teach based on the exclusively on the "policy of the school" and have a clear cut of what to teach to the student, they should provide pattern how to teach the moral values and right conduct, to avoid the teacher having such suspension and that is a ridiculous idea.
Further, if i were the parent of the student, I will be aware of my child's action, i will be open to hear the side of the teacher. If the teacher do as such to my child, well i will not be mad instead i will think from myself why my child's behavior is like that, i will seek the teacher's point of view, because maybe i neglect to teach such value to my child.
Now, the teacher should not get this 10-day suspension in the first place. If the principal think the teacher's act is humiliating, he should only advice the teacher not suspending.
@Foxxee (3651)
• United States
26 May 07
Even in public schools, its the parents and the students choice. If they don't want to, then they don't have to. They can just wait outside the classroom. That is how most public schools do it these days. They will let the class know they are about to do it and if they don't want part of it, then they step out.
1 person likes this
@el_jeffo (750)
• Philippines
26 May 07
I can understand the teacher's sentiments, but she must remember that he's a teacher, a member of the faculty, and really doesn't have any power over the students. I think the situation has less to do with the disrespect of the national anthem than it does with insubordination. If the teacher felt her student was showing disrespect, he shouldn't have went vigilante and taken the matters into his own hands; instead, she should have reported to the guidance counselor or even to the principal. I'm sure the student would receive an even heavier sanction if the teacher did this, and he wouldn't have been suspended.
The issue with teachers abusing their students is pretty delicate, and is still a huge matter because teachers really do sometimes display a perceived power over the students when they shouldn't. This situation is unfortunately treading towards those grounds. I'm not saying the teacher was wrong; I'm merely stating that there could have been better ways to deal with this, that wouldn't have merited him a punishment.
1 person likes this
@LRB1111 (356)
• United States
25 May 07
I agree and disagree. I believe it is ones personal choice to stand or site during the National Anthem. Should one be FORCED to stand with the utmost respect for something that may they not be sincere about? That would be false respect. This IS a free country after all. I think the same applies for prayer in school. Personal choice and one should not have to outwardly display their appreciation for something if they would prefer to do in quietly from their desk. Everyone respects/worships/honors something in a different personal way because we are all unique.
BUT on the other hand, if a child decided that they didn't want to participate in gym class because they believe it is "their personal choice" then this could cause a lot of problems.
Standing for the pledge is not a required school subject or skill that one would need in order to become an adult, get a job and live in our society.
Children are corrupted enough with having to conform to society standards.Being forced to be something their not, or reprimanding them for being believing in something, being bombarded at a young age with so much information that they start to lose the very thing that America stands for, which is FREEDOM of the individual.
As long as noone is being harmed than why can't a child have an opinion about something? How will they ever learn to be adults in this society if everyone makes every decision for them. Is this what we want to teach them that America is about? Listen to the popular mass opinion or be condemned and punished?
The teacher probably did not deserve to be suspended but her response to the child was a little harsh. As a parent i would want my child to sit if thats what they so desired in that situation. Again No harm done. But to have a teacher reprimand my child for something i am trying to teach him (freedom of religion ect) then I would be angry with that teacher. She has no right to raise my child and prevent them from coming back into the classroom to LEARN (thats what a school is for right?).. because they wouldn't stand at teachers will.. it's ridiculous.
1 person likes this
@evelynlyp (788)
• Japan
25 May 07
Yea standing is not a subject or a skill. However you need to learn social skills (manners, etc) to be able to get a job. Schools are not just a place to get good grades. Learning respect is something you need to be a proper adult and get a job. What employer would want to hire someone who has no respect at all? What employer wants an employee that will cause problems at the work place?
If the kid hates the country so much that he refuses to show respect, why is he doing in the country in the first place?
Perhaps the teacher was wrong to be that harsh. She should instead talk to the parents or put the child in detention. I am sure the teacher is trying to teach the kid to show respect.
By all means be free to make a choice but I belive there should be a line to the amount of freedom. I don't think he should disrespect the country like that.