To all Atheists and Spiritual people: Where we are going?
By kamran12
@kamran12 (5526)
Pakistan
June 9, 2007 7:45pm CST
I would like to know about what you think, where we are all going, in terms of spirituality?
At one end, I see people turning away from religion. Some leave everything and become atheists others just choose to be spiritual without religion.
On other side, I have seen many atheists, in real life, coming to spirituality, either individual or religious.
What do you think, are we polarizing to be either atheists or spiritual beings (religious or otherwise)? can atheists be spiritual? (Buddhists?), to what end is most people turning, in your opinion? or is there some third dimension which is taking control?
P.S: I am taking hard core definition of Atheism here.
6 people like this
8 responses
@magica (3707)
• Bulgaria
10 Jun 07
To be spiritual and to be religious are two different things. I think that there is no atheism. We call atheists all people who dont share our religious beliefs. But just think: nobody is obligated to do it! We are different and the problem is that we cant or just dont want to treat the person next with us as somebody different. And the unity is not equality, it`s balance and co-operation. That`s why for me spiritual people are thoose ones who can archieve and manage this balance in themselves. I respect this. But i am against all forms of religious fanatism, hypocricy and confrontation with the others.
3 people like this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
10 Jun 07
do we really call all people who do not share our belief as atheists? do christians, muslims, jews, pagans etc call each other as atheists? I havn't known any individual in these religions calling other religion's people as atheist. In hard core definition an atheist is void of any religion and spirituality (except buddhism perhaps).
You have a very good point that unity and equality are two different things, they sure are in my view too.
The problem is with your definition of spirituality or I may have misunderstood it. Spirituality is going beyond physical boundaries, beyond matter and energy. Do correct me and enlighten me if I am wrong.
Thanks for your views, magica:-)
1 person likes this
@FSCAries (881)
• United States
10 Jun 07
I am not sure where we are all going, as no one really can be, but I'm not sure that WHAT OR HOW you believe in something matters so much as just the fact that you believe in something. You have to have faith in something in this life to make it through, and I'm not sure that faith isn't what it's all about anyway. If you believe in God, I believe all you really have to do to please him is do your best to live right. Living right can mean different things for different people though and that is why I feel more people are moving to the spiritual side of things. If you have faith and believe in yourself that you basically try and live with good intentions then you can call it whatever you want, but I think it's all a means to the same end.
3 people like this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
10 Jun 07
You are right FSCAries, that we may not be "sure" where really we are going about the subject presented but we do can have a general knowledge or feeling perhaps. I actually wondered if people are finding in their environment, surrounding or on internet etc that whether more people are turning to spirituality be it religious or personal or are they going away from it.
I would agree that believing in GOD would mean to please HIM is to do one's best to be right. but I really wonder if all people believe that they are going to same end. With all those beliefs in after life, Heaven and Hell, or reincarnation etc and those who don't even believe in any form of after life, I suspect that not all people believe that they are going to same end. What do you think?
Thanks for sharing your valuable views, FSCAries!:-)
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
10 Jun 07
You always seem to post some very interesting discussions. I do think there is one thing that needs to be clarified. While Buddhism does not require a belief in a deity there are quite a few Buddhist who do believe in a god or gods. I live in Thailand, a predominately Buddhist country, but I do not know anyone who does not have a belief in nature spirits and who does not pray to some form of god. I guess you could call Thai Buddhism a form of Pagan Buddhism.
In Japan most people are Buddhist but mix it with Shinto, another form of nature spirit worship.
Humankind seems to have a need to believe in something beyond the physical world around them. The most hardcore Atheist will still knock wood or have second thoughts about walking under a ladder. Deep down there is a core of spirituality in all of us.
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
10 Jun 07
And it's always interesting to have your point Chiang_Mai_boy! I am glad that you came to comment:-)
I am really thankful to you for shedding some of my ignorance. Though I knew that there are different forms of Buddhism too and that some have beliefs in supernatural and some don't that's why I put a question mark with it but I was not knowing some of the things you just enlightened me with.
"Humankind seems to have a need to believe in something beyond the physical world around them"
Isn't it interesting? I always wondered if need for a deity is in our nature? If it is there then in itself will it not be a kind of proof of existence of some kind of a deity. I have heard some religions saying that their deity has taken oath from spirits before sending them to this world about believing in Him and that's why a need for deity is always in human nature. What do you think?
I tend to agree that perhaps their is some implicit spirituality in all of us, at core. I can remember one of my atheist(explicit) friends asking for prayers for the survival of his son:-) I was really surprised when he asked for prayers as whole his life he had been believing in no other thing but matter and energy and no soul, spirituality, deity or anything our of physical world.
Thanks for sharing your views, Chiang_Mai_boy:-) I appreciate.
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
10 Jun 07
This is a hard question! It's hard for me to think in just two dimensions on this topic (atheist and non-atheist) because I am so used to the organized religion type people telling me how wrong I am not to be one of them. So I tend to categorized "personal religion" as seperate from "organized religion".
Still, trying to think within the context you have provided: I have hopes that what we are going to is a world in which such decisions are made privately and in total freedom. Spiritual people are becoming atheists, atheists, becoming spiritual, a constant flow between the two camps it seems. More and more people than ever before are at sometime in their lives changing their spiritual viewpoints it seems. Even within the "religious or spiritual" category so many people move through several religions in their lifetime. Are people starting to feel more free to explore and make up their own minds? I hope so.
As to whether atheists can be spiritual, I know several atheists who definitely consider themselves spiritual, believing in the human spirit and other such things without believe in deity. However, since I'm not sure how you define "hard core atheism", I'm not sure whether the atheists I know would fit that description.
2 people like this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
10 Jun 07
I intentionally selected the topic with "spirituals" to include all religious and non religious or "personal religion" and "organized religion" people who believe in spirituality.
I agree that more and more people are starting to feel more free to explore and make up their own minds. Even for organized religions, at the core, a free decision is urged than a followership, but few people understand it actually.
Buddhists can be categorized as Atheists as well as spiritual. By Hard Core Atheists, I meant explicit atheists, for whom there is nothing other than matter and energy. Every thing can be dealt in terms of these two physical parameters. They don't even believe in existence of soul as empirically, it is not provable. I hope you are clear now about what I meant saying hard core atheists.
Thanks for sharing your views, lecanis!:-)
@gardengrrl (1445)
• United States
10 Jun 07
Hmmmm.... OK, first of all, atheism is an absolute - one is, or one is not. There are not degrees of atheism. It is, simply stated, disbelief or denial of the exisitence of God or gods. Period. It does not speak to any aspect of individual or group spirituality.
I believe there is most certainly a greater force that drives all things. I am content to accept that there is nothing personal about this force - absolutely nothing. All of the god-oriented religions try to break down the awesome vastness of this force by personalizing it and assigning it a form and definition, but that's just a human response to the inconceivable hugeness of it all. I feel sure of this for two reasons: it makes us the center piece of all this divine celestial machination (give me an everlasting break, ego-trippers!), and it's based on fear. If something is divine, why would it want us to fear it?
This belief provides the only credible explanation to the age-old question, why do bad things happen to good people while evil flourishes? There's no mysterious "workings" or "God's plan" - the universe expands, the planets spin, and sh*t happens.
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
11 Jun 07
Interesting gardengrrl, you know there is whole lot of range of atheists between these two simple words, "Disbelief or denial". I have seen agnostic Atheists calling explicit Atheists as un realistic. Similarly people have identified some forms of Atheism with spirituality (Buddhists?).
I really liked some of your ideas about that Greater Force specially it's "inconceivable hugeness". I think the same and personally do not support anthropomorphizing it. GOD in my view has nothing to do with human form, features and traits. Could it be that some people in god-oriented religions havn't presented it well? I know some god-oriented people who support or are of my view in that respect. Do correct me if I took you wrong.
Thanks for sharing your views, gardengrrl:-)
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
10 Jun 07
Everyone is on the Pathway to God. It makes no difference whether you are a Believer or an Atheist.
Everybody ends up there Eventually, because there is Nowhere Else to Go! God does Not make mistakes!