Movie In a Minute... An Inconvenient Truth:
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
July 9, 2007 1:26pm CST
The Continents Used to be Together... now their not.
The earth has stayed the same.
Some people say that the atmosphere runs in cycles.
Ignore the cycles on this graph... just look at our projections at the end.
My Son Died, Feel Sorry for me.
My Dad raised cattle, so I know how to work.
I spent nine months of the year in an apartment in Washington DC.
My dad raised tobacco, my sister died of cancer, so he stopped.
Feel sorry for me, I travel a lot.
The earth that never changes, used to have more lakes.
The lakes leaks into the ocean, causing deserts to be hot and dry.
Feel sorry for me, I travel a lot and no one listens.
See these crowds loving me.
Polar bears die if they swim 60 miles.
American coal burning BAD, China Coal Burning Good.
Kyoto good, anyone who disagrees with me, Bad!
"What are you doing for the earth?"
Al Gore, you burn more energy in your pompous palace in a year than I have burned in my life. What are YOU doing for the earth?
I don't care what you say until I see YOU living the way YOU ask everyone else to live.
Your example speaks a lot louder than your rhetoric!
4 people like this
4 responses
@gardengrrl (1445)
• United States
9 Jul 07
I'm no Gore fan, although I'd still take him (or just about anyone else vaguely qualified) over Dubya any day. I hate that all this grandstanding is being used to obscure one concrete, irrefutable fact: human activity has an influence on the natural functions of our planet. Even if we are in a "natural" upswing in the Earth's heating and cooling cycle, pouring CO2 and other gasses into the atmosphere accelerates or otherwise increases it.
Polar bears and Grizzly bears have existed relatively near each other for centuries, but there is no record of them interbreeding. Now, the Polars are moving south and inserting their gene pool into another, to keep their species from complete extinction. This is a screaming klaxon of endangerment to anyone who cares to listen. Bugger the show-off stuff, this is actually happening, and we would have had to pay serious attention back in the 1970's in order to not make it worse. It is probably already too late now.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
9 Jul 07
Um, actually, the Polar Bear population has GROWN, not shrank, so unless extinction means, MANY MANY MANY... They're not in danger... they're not even Endangered!
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=1ea8233f-14da-4a44-b839-b71a9e5df868&k=5287
Yes, there is climate change, but guess what... we live in a dynamic environment... which means IT CHANGES. It's not about infantile blame games, or figuring out how we can beat mother nature at her own game. The only real question is, what do we need to do to adapt?
1 person likes this
@gardengrrl (1445)
• United States
9 Jul 07
From the article you cited:
"Besides, polar bears do live on ice and satellite photos show the sea ice is down 7.7% in the last decade. So something is happening up there."
Would you like to compare the increase in Polar bear population to the increase in human population over the same period? I would do it, but my calculator won't display percentages that high. Somewhat more than doubling a species' population over three generations is hardly a population explosion.
Besides, climate change has typically played out over decades and centuries. Polar sea ice is down 7.7% in a single decade? Sounds accelerated to me.
Polar bears hunt from ice floes. They depend on the pack ice for survival. When the pack ice doesn't form, or melts too quickly, they go hungry. Period. Can they learn new techniques fast enough to survive? No way to tell. We just hope for the best, I suppose, although that's never helped us with big problems in the past!
I don't doubt the Inuits know very well what condition the local bear population is in, but it is difficult to assess the accuracy of the data when it is extrapolated to the whole population. Maybe Canada should allocate some of that money to having the Inuits do an overall study of the population, they're probably the best people to do it.
Saying that humanity dumping the equivalent of x number of major volcanic explosions worth of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere every year for the last century or so has no effect on the environment just doesn't make any sense. We're like the Ebola virus of Planet Earth, we just suck and suck and suck until the host body is dry. Can't wait to hear the whining and crying when the sea levels start to seriously rise... of course, by then, I'll be busy moving inland, because places like Delaware and coastal New Jersey will drown fast!
Anyway, my original point was, all this bulls hit from celebreties just obscures the salient facts: human beings do not operate in a vaccuum, our narcissistic and filthy ways hinder and harm everything else that lives on this world. Except for diseases, of course, there's such an excess of human bodies on the planet that bacteria and viruses are doing just fine!
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
10 Jul 07
Ah, so the greenhouse gasses humans make is somehow bad, but those spewed into the atmosphere by volcanoes doesn't do anything?I wonder who the "Gore" was when Pangea was separating? I'm sure whoever it was, he or she fought hard to get humans to prevent that from happening too.
@youdontsay (3497)
• United States
9 Jul 07
I'm beginning to think I need to start feeling sorry for you, as you have so few positive perspectives. I'd like to know more about the optomistic side of you.
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
23 Jul 07
" Stop talking about 'natural cycles'. These historically occur over 10s of thousands of years. Not a couple of decades. It's misdirection. "
Yes, some of the natural cycles are in the 10s of thousands of years. That's why they are important. Those cycles are so huge that mankind can do very little to oppose them. It is an absolute fact that we are about 10 thousand years coming off the bottom of a cold cycle. The overall trend for the next 40 thousand years is toward warmer temperatures. Coming off that bottom as we are means the incidence of warm upspikes every few decades is going to increase. No matter what mankind does, there are going to be palm trees growing around Lake Michigan someday. More frequent warmer decades are going to happen no matter what because of those thousands of years long cycles.
Now, as to the last few decades, I have done analysis on the data personally. The temperatures over the last many decades back over 100 years are not unusual in their variability at all. There have been ups and downs but recent changes to the up side are not catestrophic or even unusual. Nor is the rate of climate change about to become rapid. I've run the numbers. If you disagree, provide a link to the specific scientific study that disagrees. I'll read and analyize that study and respond to its author. My own estimates for the next 100 years are an earth about 1/2 to 1 1/2 degrees warmer with the oceans rising about 2 inches at the most. 1/2 inch is more likely. This is based on scientifically supplied numbers. I did the analysis. Climatologists provided the data. These numbers are actually similar to projections by climatologists. Look it up.
My qualifications to do this analysis is that my speciality is data analysis of the stock market. I'm the inventor of 3 published methods of data analysis concerning stocks. The math is very similar to the math of climatology . BTW: Projections for the stock market and climatology are equally inaccurate. Anyone using these methods to predict with certainity huge changes in the climate is foolish.
" There is very little in the Gore presentation that is a lie."
Don't you think even a very little is too much lie?
How about the lie that you can see the change in the ice core of the effect of the US anti pollution laws? Numerous scientists have disavowed this outrageous untruth in the Gore movie.
How about the mis-use of data where Gore practically states that corolation is the same as causation? This is a lie that every scientist who uses statistics knows very well.
How about the lie that 650,000 years of data is an extremely large data set? In terms of geological time, given the conclusions Gore wants you to jump to, this is a fraud.
I could give you more lies from this film, but it has been awhile since I watched it twice and just the lies mentioned so far totally discredit the film. BTW: I was appalled at the intellectual dishonesty of this film. It is trash. Yes, I do know more than the Movie Picture Academy about data analysis.
" The argument is over, the only issue is what will be done."
The arguement is over?
Ever hear of radiative forcing? Do you have any idea how much CO2 has to be added to the atmosphere to change the overall radiative forcing figure for the earth? Why is radiative forcing measured in watts per meter? What is the inherent shortcoming in this measure? How much as a percentage of the CO2 in the atmosphere was supplied by man? Ever figure the radiative forcing constant for the earth with and without the man made CO2? No? How can you be upset about the the man made CO2? You do not even know how much difference removing the man made CO2 would make.
No, the arguement is not over.
I can tell by your writing that you are an intelligent guy. When you actually look up some hard data and do some analysis on your own, you are going to be appalled at how you have been lied to. Don't take my word for it. Do some math.
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
24 Jul 07
There is a typo in my response. Radiative forcing is measured in watts per square meter, not watts per meter. Sorry about that.
@muppetsnap (229)
• Canada
25 Jul 07
The truth is that I'm not an environmental expert, and as such I'm never going to go and analyse data myself. Not that that is in any real way helpful, as (as I am sure you well know) any analysis of a data set is generally going to require assumptions and simplifications. When dealing with something as complex as the entire climate system of the planet, looking at (for example) temperatures gives a pretty simplistic picture. And after running the numbers and stating your predictions, you then admit that it's an inaccurate way to predict things.
I guess when I state that the argument is over, I mean amongst peer-reviewed experts in the field. Could they be wrong? Sure - but they all pretty much agree as much as scientists ever will.
Natural cycles are just that, natural. There are balances which have kept the climate ticking over for millions of years. But it doesn't take much to tip those balances. Nobody is suggesting that we pump out more CO2 than volcanos or cows - but we don't need to. We just need to pump out enough to ensure small but ongoing increases in the amount of greenhouse gases. That is enough to cause the kinds of early freeze/late thaws that we are seeing in the north, in turn decreasing the amounts of heat reflected. And that's really only one of the feedback systems which we simply don't understand, and which are capable of rapid (in climate terms) change.
And finally, in my limited reading, Radiative Forcing is somewhat out of vogue at the moment in terms of climate change work, as it doesn't tend to take into account feedback changes (specifically the changes in state of water in the system). As I understand it, anyway.
As I say, I'm not going to argue the specifics with anyone - I'm not an expert. But I will argue the agreement between the vast majority of the experts that it is very likely that we are changing the environment in a major way.
I found the IPCC process quite interesting. Especially the fact that it is accused simultaneously of both approaching the issue with a climate change agenda, and also being too influenced by Conservative political bias...
1 person likes this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
25 Jul 07
"But I will argue the agreement between the vast majority of the experts that it is very likely that we are changing the environment in a major way."
Repeat a lie often enough and people will accept it as the truth. No, the vast majority of experts do not accept man made global warming as a fact. The majority of experts being quoted in the media favor the idea of man made global warming, not the majority of experts. There is a big difference. The bias of the media is showing in this consensus of experts, more than that there is significant man made global warming.
Even if a majority of experts did believe in man made global warming, science is not about taking a vote. A vote is meaningless in the field of science. Only the facts and evidence count for anything. There are clear rules for evaluating the facts and evidence. Voting has nothing to do with it.
As to inaccurate predictions using the climate data, I said it is foolish to make predictions of large changes using such analysis, not that such analysis has no meaning.
Radiative forcing out of vogue? Do you not realize that without the concept of radiative forcing you can not even argue that the greenhouse effect even exists? No radiative forcing, no greenhouse effect. It is as simple as that. However, there is a greenhouse effect. I am by no means argueing against there being a greenhouse effect.
One last thing. I advise you to parse the words carefully of anyone claiming there is man made global warming. To show why, I'll give an example. From the IPCC report summary for national leaders, "There is discernable man made global warming." Seems obviously clear doesn't it? It is not. The problem is the word discernable. Modern satellite based instruments are so accurate they can detect minute changes in temperature and in levels of the ocean. Of the approximately .6 degrees the earth has warmed in the last 100 years, I estimate .01 degrees of that was man made. .01 degrees is discernable, but also insignificant. The word discernable was chosen very carefully by this reports author. Read carefully the propaganda of man made global warming.
@shestalou (293)
• Canada
11 Jul 07
What did you think of live earth concert with all those hypocrites, at least if you want to raise awareness maybe they should first practise what they preach, no wonder no one took them seriously.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
11 Jul 07
I guess they watched School of Rock and took "One great show can change the world" to heart. ;~D