One County, One Religion (Christianity), The Money Says "In God We Trust"
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
United States
July 12, 2007 11:25am CST
Yesterday I started a post about an uproar of a Christian group that is very angry that a Hindu gentleman is going to open the Senate with a Hindu prayer. The group gave an email address and phone number to petition this "terrible thing" from happening; as they fear it may tear America apart.
I am a bit surprised at some of the responses I have gotten to the posting. I can't understand bigotry at any level and wonder why we have so much of it. I wonder if it would have been a Native American (example only) giving the opening prayer would there have been such an outrage. Are we now just automatically angry and fearful of anyone with brown skin? Are we afraid that his prayer in a different language may contain hidden threat to us? Or are we just that against any religion other than Christianity?
Two springs ago I had the occasion to travel a distance with a very good Christian friend. We had always respected each other and the paths we followed. (You never know how far respect goes until you are forced to be in a car together for more than 16 hours). She told me how saddened she was that the pictures of Jesus had had to be removed from the local schools (huge pictures right beside the principle's office). She also told me how horrid she though it was that her children could no longer pray in school. I really didn't want to make religion a part of our trip and I only sympathized with her about the picture; but when she started discussing the prayer, I did say that all of the children were given time for "silent prayer". She insisted that this was not good enough. That was pretty surprising to me and I asked what she meant. In no minced words she said, "I understand that people have come here from other countries and they had different religions when they came here, but once they get here, they should be forced to be Christian and to follow our rules and our God. That's how it would be if we went to their country!" She was so full of fervor that I knew there would be no point in even trying to have a discussion with her.
I wonder where she got this information. Is there a denomination that really teaches this belief? And, if this belief is taught, how do the teachers of it justify us sending missionaries all over the world in order to bring Christianity to every person?
To my dear Christian friends, I beg of you to please not take this post disrespectfully; it is in no means meant to be. To me the God that you adore and worship is the same Guiding Spirit that makes the pillowy clouds that I am watching travel across the blue sky that I put my faith in. ~Donna
6 people like this
14 responses
@sunshinecup (7871)
•
12 Jul 07
Wow well I can tell ya if that was how this country became, I wouldn't want anything to do with it. I, thank God, I haven't been involved with any church or group that felt that way. Everyone I know supports freedom of religion. I hope I never personaly meet a nut like that.
3 people like this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Sunshinecup, I have met too many of them in my lifetime; but I also have been blessed to meet plenty of sunshinecups, and that is enough to keep me going with hope for the future. ~Donna
@morgandrake (2136)
• United States
12 Jul 07
Last night, I heard in passing that the Pope (Ratzinger--I can't remember his official Pope-name Benndict something) recently said that the Catholic chruch is the ONLY path to salvation. So the other Christian branches don't even have it right, or so the official opinion goes. And I have seen similiar comments in other branches of Christianity, which I find greatly distrubing. I have seen members of the Universal-Unitian get up on this particular soapbox...I think it comes with the territory of being one on the "true path."
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
12 Jul 07
Morgandrake, I understand the first part of your response and totally agree with you about the ONLY path. I am confused as to what you are meaning about the UU church however. When possible that is the church that I attend. The UU church has NO path. One week you can go and have a lecture on the Native American path, the next on the Christian path, the next on Atheism, the next on Jewish tradition, the next on GLBT issues, etc. It is a church devoted to total inclusiveness.
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
17 Jul 07
What I am hearing Morgandrake is that it was one of the church's members that had a little rant going. If that is so, I am afraid, dear brother, you are going to run into bigots at just about every turn in the road.
This is most certainly not the view of the UU Church itself. I have taught (or a better word monitored) a teen group during Sunday services; and can tell you that their parents have brought them up to be very liberal, open-minded, and most wonderfully free-thinking individuals.
I would ask you to talk with your friend that had you help with her ceremony. I am sure that she can explain better than I and perhaps even have you meet with the leader of the church. ~Donna
@morgandrake (2136)
• United States
13 Jul 07
That is why I found it so distrubing. It was right after a friend of mine did a Wiccan ritual for the UU chruch she belongs to--I got voluteered as a "warm body"--after the ritual I had someone (a regular of the church) tell me that my friends and her voluteers (including me) were not on the true path. It gave me second thoughts about joining the UU church.
1 person likes this
@Polly1 (12645)
• United States
12 Jul 07
I had read your other post about the Hindu man saying the prayer. I wasn't sure what kind of comment to make. I am a Christian, and I am proud to be a Christian. I do not and will not put someone elses faith, beliefs or religion down. Who am I to say what you should believe in. We all need to show each other more respect. We are supposed to have freedom of religion, we also have "In God We Trust". I do believe that most if not all religions believe in "God". They might have a different "God" than I have, but they still have a "God". I belong to a "Protestant" Church, we do not say our religion is the only religion, if my church said that I would be out of there. Some religions do say they are the only true religion, that upsets me. I will not name names, I don't want to bash anyones religion. I do hope you get friendly replies. Also I happen to be a Native American, thats a whole diferent discussion there. LOL.
2 people like this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Polly, Thank you so much for your comment. You are loved and beloved. When we all get to the same space that you are living in we will see peace. ~Donna
(but of course it will be a really crowded house you old battle axe! - this part is just for Polly so please no one else bash me for it)
@nicolec (2671)
• United States
12 Jul 07
I think I would have had a knock down drag out fight with your friend there. She sounds like the Spanish Conquistidors that converted all the mexicans and native americans to Catholosism. Ok, didn't convert, but forced them into their religion. She is wrong. Period. You would not be forced into another religion just by living some where.
Our constitution was founded on the principle of seperation of church and state, which basically stems from the fact that the england was ruled by the Church of England. It also says the government can not infringe on the right to freedom of religion. therefore, you have the right to choose what religion you want to be. It does not say anything about where you can practice that religion unless it is a government property. Which public schools are.
As far as the hindu prayer. I did not hear about this. Was he saying it would be his own personal prayer or that he wanted to say it out loud and have everyone join in? I have no problem if he wants to take a minute to have a prayer moment, I would have a problem if he forced everyone to do the same.
Religion to me is a very private and special thing. I do not wish other people to push their religion on me, just as I would not do the same to others.
Unfortunatly Christians can tend to be very narrow minded. Forgive me, but out of all the religions I have met, Christians tend to be the most ignorant about other religions. They refuse to embrace Judiasm, even though it is the back bone of thier own religion. Some Christians won't even embrace other sects (ie baptists and methodists). It has nothing to do with the color of the skin, but the religion they practice. IF the 'brown' skinned man wanted to start with a christian prayer, there would not be this up roar.
I work for the state, a government agency. And before every holiday meal (thanksgiving) they say grace. I was furious the first time I heard it. But when I spoke to some one about it, I was told they were allowed to say it as long as they did not mention Jesus. This doesn't make me any happier as I feel the Christians are still trying to rule the roost.
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
12 Jul 07
I agree with you that some Christians tend to be overzealous; however at one time I was a practicing Buddhist and one of the things we were asked to do prior to each monthly meeting was to go out and hand out tracts and bring people into our meetings to try to "convert" them. Zeal doesn't really know a particular religion I don't think. As far as working for the United States government, I question how our government could have forced the abandonment of all Christian symbolism from their own buildings (which I applaud); but continue to honor only this one religion as far as Holy Days goes. ~Donna
@nicolec (2671)
• United States
12 Jul 07
This is exactly what I am talking about, the ignorance of the Christians. Jesus was a jew. He did not set out to start a new religion, but it happened. Your religion was founded on the basic principles of Judiasm. Your bible contains the Old testament, does it not? Or have those pages been ripped out?
And then you right about tolerance in the same breath you slander the Jewish faith?
Have I made my point?
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
12 Jul 07
Vivienna, Thank you for your contribution to this posting. As in any discussion, everyone is not always going to agree, but I do appreciate that you took the time to reply. ~Donna
@whywiki (6066)
• Canada
12 Jul 07
I think that religion doesn't belong in the senate or schools or anywhere else that people of different beliefs are. Religion belongs in the churches and that is it. It shouldn't be on our money either as a lot of people don't believe in it or worship anyone so why should we be subjected to it?
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
12 Jul 07
Thank you for your comment whywiki. It is a great point of view. ~Donna
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
12 Jul 07
Squid, Thank you for your comment and Welcome to MyLot! And to think you made this your number 2 post! I am honored. I wonder what your first one was...hmmmm! For future reference, when you respond to a question it is most usual for you to respond to the original question instead of to the last response. (Unless you are agreeing with what the last responder had to say). The reason that I am telling you this is because if I wanted to choose you as "the best response", I would not be able to since you are not in a comment box by yourself. Again, thank you and welcome! ~Donna
1 person likes this
@devilsangel (1817)
• United States
13 Jul 07
You my friend are a far more patient person than I am because I would have went off on her. This country is all about religious freedoms, that was one of the main reasons people imigrated here in the first place. That would have been the shortest car trip in the history of trips, because I would have kicked her butt out of the car and left her on the side of the road. Kudos to you for being much more mild tempered then I.
2 people like this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Thank you, (I think). It's not about patience for me. It's about staying true to my belief of religious tolerance. I most certainly did not agree with what she believed in, BUT if I would have started to try to change her belief system, I would have been doing the very thing that I abhor. It isn't always easy to stick to your beliefs is it? Thank you for your response and comment. ~Donna
@visitorinvasion (7709)
• United States
13 Jul 07
I don't believe in organized religion for those very reasons...hypocrisies being the biggest of those. I refuse to believe that the God I believe in would teach any kind of hatred or bigotry.
It seems to me that a lot of Christians tend to miss the parts of the sermon that talk about being given free will, not gossiping or being a hypocrite, not judging others, etc.
FORCING Christianity (or any other religion) upon any human being goes against everything I was ever taught.
*Shaking head with sadness*
What's between a human being and his/her Maker is between that human and that Maker, thus is NO BUSINESS of anyone else's to judge.
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Visitor, Thank you for your response and comment. I also shake my head with sadness and agree with you. While I am a member of the UU Church, it is not very near my house so I don't go very often. Exactly what you have stated is the reason that when people ask me "what I am" (isn't that a weird question to ask someone?), I answer one of two things.
I will either tell them, "I am Everything" or
I am a SOLITARY pagan kitchen witch
The "I am Everything" really gets them sometimes! You will have to try it, you are every bit as ornery as I am ~Donna
@emeraldisle (13139)
• United States
12 Jul 07
It's probably a good thing I wasn't driving with your friend. I don't know if I could have held my tongue during all that. This country was founded with the belief that we have no national religion. I always wondered why some Christians, and sorry but it is Christians that do this, think that we do have a national religion. Just because we use the phrase "In God we trust" doesn't mean it's the christian god we are trusting in. I trust in MY God but that doesn't mean he's the christian god. Some seem to think they have a monopoly on the word and that god can only mean the Christian god and it doesn't. The founding fathers wanted to make sure that the church did not rule things here, that we didn't end up with all the persecution that happened in other countries, and that this country would always respect and welcome others who were being forced to follow a faith they didn't believe in.
@emeraldisle (13139)
• United States
12 Jul 07
Hehe that's ok I'm willing to share my soap box with others on this :) It's just one of many things I feel passionate about, that we should all be treated the same, that all religions respected and if one wants one thing allowed they have to allow similar to others.
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
12 Jul 07
Emerald, As always, you state things in an eloquent manner from your standpoint. I am laughing as I type because although I am pagan and not Wiccan, I am still having a tough time picturing the founding fathers of our country sitting around the pumpkin pie and saying, " 'An it Harm None" Not even those sweet old witches!". As far as arguing my point with the woman, I have learned through my many years of age that there are some topics you just don't even try to change someone's mind about. I know that she genuinely feels the way that she does and no amount of talking would have ever changed her mind. Blessed Be ~Donna
1 person likes this
@freak369 (5113)
• United States
13 Jul 07
I am going to slide this in with the hopes that you will "get" what I am saying. I was "old school", our nuns walked around with yard sticks and handed out paddle permission slips at the beginning of the year.
There is a HUGE difference between private, Catholic and public schools. The kids in the public schools say the Pledge of Allegiance in the morning followed by about 30 seconds of silence. What ever Catholic schools choose is their own business. Same thing for private schools.
As far as what your friend said about being forced to be Christian .. I hate to tell her but the Muslim faith is quickly taking over and not just in the USA. If you went to another country you would not be forced to change your religions (I have no idea where she got that idea) but when you come to the United States you are protected under the Constitution to have RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
I'm going to end this before I go off on a full rant lol
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Freak, You know that you are protected under me to rant in my threads any time you want! I do understand what you are sliding in and thank you for your response and comment. (Wondering how many times did that bottom get whacked with the yard stick?????) ~Donna
@MsTickle (25180)
• Australia
15 Jul 07
Hello Donna. I went to bed thinking about this last night and re-read it today for about the fourth time. I also read your discussion about the Hindu prayer to open the Senate.
My eyes have been opened as a result of several discussions here at myLot and I've begun to see the narrowness of my own thinking. I was raised a Catholic and taught that I was superior to other people. Only Catholics would be saved when the end came. We were taught that Catholicism was the only true religion and anyone else was a pagan and a heretic (these were "bad" words).
Many years ago I had to face the fact that I was an intolerant person and I could not understand why I was this way. Now I know. I have renounced the Catholic Church but have still tried to be a good Christian but I'm even doubting if I have any faith. How sad that I have been left feeling like this because of the bigotry and intolerance shown me in the name of God.
I find that I am searching for something, some way, some path to follow so I can be true to my self. There are some friends here who have made me feel safe and loved and I see respect and tolerance in many viewpoints. This is how I want to be. Bless you for your gentleness and loving spirit Donna and your open heart and wisdom.
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
17 Jul 07
MsTickle, Thank you so much for your kind words. It is very clear that you are a person who is suffering and desperately seeking an answer. From experience, I can tell you that the less you seek, the quicker you will find. If you have anyone close to you that can help you with meditation, that is an excellent way to begin to really "see" inside you. Don't knock your Catholic faith so much. It has a lot of wonderful and beautiful truths in it. I have a book from my next door neighbor (Catholic) called The Lives of The Saints. It is one of my favorite books. My neighbor is a great Catholic, but that does not mean that she takes every word that the Priest/Pope says literally. She is a very strong-willed woman and is raising her daughters to be the same way.
Continue to pray. Even if you don't know or are unsure of who you are praying to, continue to pray. Give thanks for what you have, ask for what you need, pray for help in finding what you seek. Know that there are many people that are loving and supporting you. ~Donna
@Springlady (3986)
• United States
13 Jul 07
This country was founded by Christian men. If people come here from other countries and don't believe in God and try to take Him out of this country, then they can go back to their country.
The Truth is that God is very real and His Word...the Bible is very real and true.
God bless.
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Springlady, Thank you for finding your way to this discussion, for responding, and for your comments. You are appreciated. ~Donna
1 person likes this
@maildumpster (3815)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Not sure where she got that idea. I have never heard anyone speak like that.
Honestly I have no problem with a man opening with a prayer in any language! What is wrong with anyone asking for blessings from their higher power? It isn't like this man praying is his way of trying to convert everyone.
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Exactly! Thank you maildumpster for your response and your comment. ~Donna
1 person likes this
@SEOGUY (906)
• United States
13 Jul 07
Maybe people who are angry about this have never read the constitution, it says the congress shall pas no law prohibitting religion or the free exercise their of. That means the government does not say one religion is better than one, or that this relion is the official state religion. It makes no difference between Islam, Judiesm, Christianity, or Hindo. And yes the money says in God we trust. When Did Chrisitanity have a monopoly on God? And one nation under GOD, it does not say under the Christ, or Budda OR Alah. These people people who scream for the state to Get out of religion are now screaming to ignore the Constitution now? I am a Christian and it makes no differenc to me what religon says a preyre and where they say it. Our nation has freedom of religion, all religions. We do not have a state religion, And hopefully we never will, If you are prodostent do you want to live in a state church of Catholsism, or the other way around? God is God. There is no Law that says all Americans have to be Christian or only Christian Preyres can be said
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Thank you so much for your response and comment. It is obvious that you have done some research on the subject and that is much appreciated. ~Donna
@Juanamomof5 (429)
• United States
12 Jul 07
I'm not against any religion, but prayer is prayer wether it be Christian, Hindu, or otherwise. There is supposed to be a separation of state and religion.
1 person likes this
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
12 Jul 07
Thank you for your comment also. This seems to be the way most people are thinking. ~Donna
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