Any fellow Pantheists on myLot?
By craftcatcher
@craftcatcher (3699)
United States
August 27, 2007 11:37am CST
I know there are probably many people who have never heard of Pantheism. Though the name has only been around since approximately 1705, the same concepts have been discussed by many ancient Greek philosophers such as Thales and Heraclitus.
The definition of the word comes from the Greek, Pan which means "All" and theos which means "God".
So here are the basic concepts and my personal belief. Not all Pantheists believe the exact same way.
Pantheism is the belief that God is not the creator of the Universe, God IS the Universe, all that is. God is not separate from us because we, as part of this Universe, are a physical part of God.
I don't worship an anthropomorphic being that is male or female, there is no dogma, doctrine or ritual involved. This is a spiritual path of reverence for all.
Some people use the term religion, I try to avoid it because of the connotation of current organized religions. Pantheism to me is a spiritual path of growth and discovery that grows and changes as I grow and change. The more I know of nature, people, science, etc. the closer I get to understanding my place within the Universe/God.
We are immortal, in that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Since we consist of matter and energy, we have always been and will always be a part of the Universe/God. So there is no heaven or hell.
Good and evil are what we create in our own minds and show in our actions to others.
There are no set rules or doctrine to Pantheism, only common sense ethics and common sense code of conduct. Any harm done to another is doing harm to oneself because what harms one harms all. Instead of "doing the right thing" being based on fear of divine punishment, it comes from a mutual respect for all things.
We are free to combine other beliefs into our ethics and conduct if we chose. I personally can relate to aspects of many other religions and philosophies. If I choose to observe a specific ritual or holiday it makes no difference to the Universe/God, it only makes a difference to me.
I am in good company in my beliefs. Here are some of my favorite Pantheistic quotes by some famous Pantheists:
A religion old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths. Sooner or later, such a religion will emerge.
~ Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"
A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and this alone, I am a deeply religious man.
~ Albert Einstein "The World as I See It"
Larry King: Do you believe in God?
Stephen Hawking: Yes, if by God is meant the embodiment of the laws of the universe.
Larry King Live, December 25, 1999
I believe in the cosmos. All of us are linked to the cosmos. So nature is my god. To me, nature is sacred. Trees are my temples and forests are my cathedrals.
Mikhail Gorbachev~ former President of the Soviet Union
I would love to hear from any other Pantheists on myLot or from those who wish to comment on Pantheism. Just please keep it respectful. Thanks.
9 people like this
22 responses
@drannhh (15219)
• United States
27 Aug 07
Nice post! Of course, with one obvious exception, Pantheism is almost identical to Theism, which was the belief of Thomas Jefferson, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and Henry David Thoreau among other great figures whose influence did much to shape the political and intellectual climate of most of today's world.
Unfortunately, in many parts of the world, and my community is no exception, one does not quite feel safe in discussing such beliefs openly because most people don't quite understand what words such as "theist" or "humanist" or "worship" or even "atheist" really mean and therefore they place a "good" or "bad" connotation on terms which don't really have a connotation at all. In effect, they blame the pen for what someone writes, or the glass for what they drink. How can someone walk through a forest alone and not innately feel that trees are temples and forests are cathedrals? I don't know. Yet people I know and love can say meaningfully with a straight face "If you have seen one tree you have seen them all!"
Belief systems are funny things. Whenever I try to grasp them, I always come back to the response Linda Goodman gave when a fundamentalist Christian asked her how she could possibly believe in astrology. She replied, "Do you believe in Wednesday?"
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
27 Aug 07
Hi Ann! That is definitely a fact that many people tend to be intolerant of things they don't comprehend. The really sad thing is, they don't want to comprehend or be toleratant.
I'm glad to see such a tolerant bunch here on myLot, it does my heart good. I fully expected some serious bashing but so far everyone has been very respectful and kind. Pantheism is not the easiest of concepts to understand.
I like Linda Goodman, great comeback!
Thanks so much Ann, I always appreciate your insight and thoughtfulness. :D
2 people like this
@thefortunes (2367)
• Netherlands
28 Aug 07
Hi Craftcatcher,
Thank you for bringing this discussion up as it gave me such a different view on Pantheism. I have never bothered before to learn what it was, and have always thought that it was a philosophy, and not a religion, or a substitute for a religion. A way of life of sorts maybe?
In any case I have some of the believes that Pantheism holds, and am glad to have the chance to get deeper into it due to the discussion opened by you ;)
According to the Stanford encyclopedia Pantheism is a mathaphysical and religious position, and what is your view on this description?
I was born into a Greek Orthodox family and only baptized since my parents were no church goers. Later, when I started making my own choices I became Manichaeist. For the once that do not know, this is a dualistic gnosticism. Several years ago I kind of took a few steps off and away from it, because I felt there is more in the universe than the above. In this "more" I see many of the things you wrote, and it sounds great and kind of "known" to me.
But it is getting late nd i will go to sleep now. And thank you for a great discussion ;)
3 people like this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
28 Aug 07
Hi thefortunes! I'm glad you came by to comment. I learned a few things from you too. I did a little reading up on the dualistic gnosticism you spoke of. I had never heard of it before, very interesting.
Although I see Pantheism as a whole spiritual path, some do not and combine it with other beliefs. I do not call it a religion because religion has the connotation of set and specific doctrine that must be followed to the letter, which Pantheism doesn't have. The Stanford Encyclopedia needs to talk to more Pantheists! LOL
Hope you had a good sleep, take care and thanks so much for your comments. :D
1 person likes this
@thefortunes (2367)
• Netherlands
29 Aug 07
Hi Craftcatcher, your answer about the Stanford Encyclopedia was really nice ;) and I love discussions that stimulate my hunger for knowledge, making it difficult though to fit the study into my scheme of life...LOL
Have a splendid week ahead ;)
2 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
28 Aug 07
Hello Craftcatcher,
Nice to visit with you again! As per your reply to your first response here ... yes, I salute.
Your summary very closely matches my own. The only notable differences I would offer are regarding: possible energy re-assembly, i.e. reincarnation, and interconnected consciousness.
Regarding reincarnation: in the same way that a cyst, or a benign tumor has the propensity to re-develope after removal or treatment, I suggest that some parts of the whole are bonded, or more distinctly linked to specific others. (perhaps this is an inate weakness, design flaw, or a necessary coagmentation of specific energies in order to support a specific function) And, that over time (in the conventional sense of the word), those separate parts of the greater reality find themselves (or will themselves) positioned in proximity to the others at various times throughout the whole of existence/reality.
As for collective consciousness: How can the interconnected whole not share a linked consciousness with that which it is a part? I believe the answer is that it can't. Thus, I submit that we have access to all knowledge. All that has been, is presently, or will ever be. I just believe that very few humans have ever tapped into that knowledge. Further, I suspect that the 90% of our brains that we don't use, is very actively engaged with the rest of creation. As I see it, the real illusion is the reality that we create with our little 10%.
Hope I didn't get too far off your original point. Thanks for sharing. It's nice to know that there are others here who share my sense of 'it all'.
2 people like this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
28 Aug 07
Hi Ladyluna, good to see you here! Thanks for coming by my discussion. And thanks for the salute..LOL! I'm really glad I decided to run it up the ol' flagpole.
The essence of reincarnation makes sense to me in that we are.. to put it one way.. recycled back into the Universe, energy and all.
I am still keeping an open mind as to the interconnected consciousness, I am not discounted the possibility. But I am a dyed-in-the-wool realist. I have never myself seen proof, I have never heard of anyone who has definively and scientifically proved it.
As far as the linked consciousness to the whole, I look at it more like, I can't tell my fingernails how fast to grow or to tell my leg hair to stop growing. They are an integral part of my body as a whole but I do not have a conscious link to each hair follicle.
We still have a lot of the same basic ideas. The inactive parts of our brains are going to trigger some day, they are there for a reason. I have a feeling it will be the next step in human evolution.
I have been rather surprised at how many responses I've gotten that if not agree then at least understand where we're coming from. I think it is a much more prevalent concept than I thought. :D
1 person likes this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
29 Aug 07
Your comments are always gourmet food for thought and very welcome in my discussions any time ladyluna!
Thanks :D
1 person likes this
@Darkwing (21583)
•
28 Aug 07
Thank you so much for this wonderful post, Craftcatcher. I am awarding it a well-earned + rating, because you've taught me a few aspects on life I'd never thought to look at before, and which I shall now read, because as you say, it will help me in my spiritual growth and betterment.
I'm a Pagan. I basically trained in Wicca but there were some parts of Wicca which didn't hold water with me, so, about a year ago, I took a fork in my path, and incorporated Anglo Saxon beliefs by branching off into Seax-Wicca. I live in an area of England which was once inhabited and ruled by Saxons, and I feel so much more comfortable with this. We do believe that everything has a spirit and I also believe that the Gods and Goddesses we follow or worship, whichever word you wish to use, are forces of power, rather than beings. We just make up the human form in our minds to give us a Divine being to channel into, because we can't properly relate to channeling into life forces, if you get my drift. I believe the Goddess is in me, as well as in everybody and everything else on this Earth, and how could that be, if She were human? I also believe that everything has a spirit and am very "at one" with nature. I don't strive to harm others as I believe in the Rule of 3 returning the bad to me. I love to help and heal people where possible, and where they're accepting of it, and I prefer to give than receive, which is possibly a fault of mine, that I'll admit, but I will accept what people want to give if it means a lot to them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't just take without something being offered.
I guess all of that puts me close to being a Pantheist, but I certainly wish to go far deeper into this, so that I can relate your beliefs to mine and being a Libran, weigh them up as to what I choose them to mean and adapt my path accordingly. lol.
Brightest Blessings my friend, and thank you so much, once again, for opening my eyes to this.
@Darkwing (21583)
•
29 Aug 07
That's what it's all about my friend, reading, learning and understanding, then tailoring everything to fit your own comfort zone. I'm fascinated with your discussion and certainly would like to learn more about the subject. I can't see me changing my ways completely, but will very possibly blend parts of it in with what I already believe and practice.
Fascinating that you're a fellow Libran. Maybe that's the reason we are interested in so many similar things. We are supposed to be quite understanding and tolerant people! lol.
Brightest Blessings my friend.. you are indeed welcome to the +. Take care!
2 people like this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
28 Aug 07
Hi Darkwing! Thanks for the +!
I was actually doing a great deal of research and study about Wicca/Paganism when I accidentally stumbled across Pantheism, so I have a very soft spot in my heart for Wiccans/Pagans. I still relate very well to it because there are many similarities.
As a fellow Libran I tend to weigh things out myself, I hope you find it as simple yet powerful as I do. :D
1 person likes this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
27 Aug 07
Thanks for your comment sigma77. It is a very interesting concept and that's why I was so drawn to it, it made sense to me too!
1 person likes this
@Galena (9110)
•
27 Aug 07
I suppose I could call myself a Pantheist.
it's complicated.
my Gods are definite, individual, distinct beings, AND anthropomorphic personifications.
they are also that driving force of the universe. that is what they are, at their most distinct. the forms come after. the force that they are is in everything.
I think you explained it very well.
2 people like this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
27 Aug 07
There are many philosophies, paths and religions who can understand and relate to Pantheism very easily. Just as I can relate to certain concepts of Wiccans, Pagans, Witches, Taoists, Buddists, Hindus, I could go on.
Your anthropomorphic personifications are pretty much the same as what I call thoughtform. I too, on occasion, need to put a face to diety to work out a problem or figure out why something is confusing me. It's only human. Though I am always aware of the greater Universe which to me is not an individual distinct being.
Thanks so much for your views :D
1 person likes this
@pumpkinjam (8754)
• United Kingdom
31 Aug 07
I have heard of Pantheism before but never really knew what it was. I am interested in all types of beliefs specifically the more spiritual ones. I like to study them and would be quite interested in learning some more about yours. I assume there are websites with even more information on it. Can you put some links on please?
1 person likes this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
31 Aug 07
Here is my favorite Pantheist website. It sums up pretty much all there is to know about the basic beliefs, theory, history and philosophy.
http://www.pantheism.net/
1 person likes this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
28 Aug 07
Hi Lakota, thanks so much for your comments. I too feel such a spiritual and physical connection with nature and the universe. That's what drew me to this path in the first place. To know that I am truly connected to everything that exists makes life much more pleasant to me. :D
@Riptide (2756)
• United States
28 Aug 07
I heard that word before, but never knew what it meant. I think it's a wonderful way of looking at things.
I personally am a wiccan and also feel very connected to nature.
This is very interesting and I will definetely have to read more on this. Thank you for sharing with us :)
1 person likes this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
28 Aug 07
Hi Riptide and thanks for your comment. Although we have a different concept of God(dess), Pantheists and Wiccans have a lot of common ground. It was my study of Wicca that lead me to Pantheism and my decision that this was my spiritual path. So I have a big soft spot in my heart for the Wiccan way. :D
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
27 Aug 07
I must have a bit of the Pantheist myself and never realized it before..LOL Actually my path for many years has been a wiccan/pagan one, so I do believe in both female and male forms of the divine which is lacking in the more "traditional" big three religions...My belief is that one reason the world is they way it is, is due to the lack of recognition of the feminine quality of the divine and therefore out of balance...Some of the ideas you bring forth are my beliefs as well...Such as to quote you..
"We are immortal, in that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Since we consist of matter and energy, we have always been and will always be a part of the Universe/God. .."
This is right out of the law of physics, and a great way to verify the idea of reincarnation in my mind--if this was the only life we had, to my mind it would be a waste of energy.
I too believe that we are Divine entities and therefore part of the universe/god/goddess (in my case)
..." Any harm done to another is doing harm to oneself because what harms one harms all..."
This is so much like the Wiccan Rede where it is against our principles to harm anyone or anything, for it will come right back to you threefold
We also have a tremendous respect for all living things.
Wow--I didn't know some of my absolute favorites were Pantheists...I was always a great fan of Carl Sagan, of course Einstein, Hawking...you wouldn't by any chance know if another favorite of mine followed this path do you? Joseph Campbell??
I guess I'm a bit of a Pantheist and didn't know it...Thanks for this discussion!
2 people like this
@Feona1962 (7526)
• United States
28 Aug 07
I enjoyed reading this post. I have never heard of Pantheism but I did find this reading very informative. I do understand what you are saying and it gives me another way of thinking about God. I don't go to church because I believe my temple is in my heart. I don't need a church to tell me who I am or who they want me to be. I can pray anywhere because God is everywhere...Thank you for this, it sure does give me something to think about..
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
28 Aug 07
I'm glad you enjoyed it and gave you something to think about. I tried the church going and following someone else's idea of what my existance means. It left me quite empty and lacking. To know now that no matter where I am or who I am with, I am connected with the Universe in every way. What better "church" can there be but to go outside and look up at the night sky and know you're a part of that? It's pretty awesome. :D
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
2 Sep 07
Thank you for this most interesting discussion...and for your willingness to share your spiritual beliefs. From many of the posts you have added to perspectives topics I assumed your views were akin to mine...and they certainly are in many ways. We hold different perspectives on the subject of reincarnation though. I know there hasn't been any scientific 'proof' that it exists...but there hasn't been proof about a lot of the subtle energies many of us believe in...so I do not need scientific proof for things that have a strong personal resonance for me.
After many years of questing for spiritual understanding I have studies many different theologies and spiritual frameworks and would be hard pressed to put my views into any one category. My perspective is metaphysically based with aspects from Aboriginal Spirituality, Shamanism and Buddhism..and physics. I am familiar with Pantheism and greatly appreciate hearing it from you in a concise way. From your description it there are many aspects that are not unlike many other teachings. That is not a big surprise...because common threads within Universal Truths do show up in various interpretations in many of the mystical teachings.
This is a great topic and I am enjoying reading the responses from others as well. Always interesting to know what people think...and how they formulated their belief systems.
Warmest regards,
Raia
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
2 Sep 07
Hi Raia! Thanks so much for coming by my discussion. I agree that Universal truths hold for many religions and beliefs. I do not discount the metaphysical, I always keep an open mind. I just believe there are basic Universal laws that just have not yet been explained by science. It doesn't mean they don't exist to me.
I tend to be a realist with highly spiritual leanings. I don't think that one has to discount the other. I've seen too much to ever say "This cannot exist". I say, "I'll keep an open mind".
I relate very easily to many different forms of belief and they've all taught me a great deal. I continue to grow and discover and my beliefs grow with me.
Thanks hon, I always appreciate your input.
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
9 Sep 07
You are welcome..it is such a joy...to know Soul Sisters like you, DarkWing, Lakota..and so many others are bringing so many wonderful spiritual ideas to the table. I have read all the responses..and see the value in them. Energy based thinker are certainly 'possibility thinkers' and you have created a wonderful form here. Informative, thoughtful...and as you know...my 'thinker' loves to think. I like you term...'tickling the brain.' You have done that for me...and many others and I love that about you.
I plan to continue searching out more information on Pantheism..and have already felt a confirmation of many our my existing beliefs...with a slightly new perspective. Thanks so much. Look forward to sharing more forums with you.
Take care...
Raia
1 person likes this
@ladybug565 (2216)
• United States
2 Sep 07
I am a little late joining in this discussion. I have never heard of Panhteism before but I do like the sound of it. you did a wonderfull job describing and explaining it though and it makes sense. thanks.
1 person likes this
@zimmyz (7)
• Ireland
28 Aug 07
Hi Craftcatcher,Wow, well done on the topic, you've really stirred some people up in Cyberspace. i must admit i hadn't heard of Pantheism before i read your topic. I haven't read all the responses because there are so many but i will for sure. After doing some research on the subject i was suprised to see that it first really came into the public domain in 1705 by an Irish Writer named John Toland. John was an Irish catholic that converted to Protestantism which was not really the done thing 300 years ago. I myself am an Irish man who grew up surrounded by catholicism which never really gelled with me. I just could never get my head around the whole "believe without question" thing that was expected of us in school. When i was growing up the churches influence was everywhere in Ireland. It was very much in politics in that most of the laws that governed the country were sanctioned by the church hence there being no divorce (which there is now) and no abortion (which there still is none) but due to corruption within the church and the democratic process the church has very little say anymore and Ireland has prospered economically since. Anyway, enough of all that!I just want to say that even though i did not believe in "God" as such, i always believed in something, as in an energy or lifeforce of some kind. To be honest, i was always a little jealous of people with a faith, they always seemed a little more relaxed in times of crisis because they genuinely believed that someone up there was fighting their corner. The only sense i could find was in what Einstein said about matter can neither be created or destroyed ( i think you touched on it earlier), thats the only thing plausible as far as i was concerned, UNTIL NOW! I think you have given me the perfect compromise between religion and science! I am certainly going to give this alot more thought. I now believe in God as a common name for the energy of the Universe and if others want to interpret that for themselves then, as John Lennon once said "Whatever gets you through your life, is alright!)
Thanks again!
2 people like this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
28 Aug 07
Hi zimmyz, I'm glad I could tickle your brain and give you another avenue to check out. I too was raised as a Christian and I remember my mother reading me a book of bible stories when I was little and no matter how many times my mother told me that these stories were true and real.. I just could NOT relate to it. It never got any better throughout my life. I am a realist to the nth degree and organized religions always left me feeling completely empty and frankly, rolling my eyes in frustration and disbelief.
A good friend of mine is a Wiccan and we get into some fantastic discussions on beliefs and she asked me one time what my religion was. I said I don't have a religion and I don't want one, but I feel a deep connection to nature and the Universe. As far as I knew this didn't have a name. After some very long nights of reading and research I stumbled upon Pantheism. So I read furiously everything I could download or get my hands on. It didn't take me long to say, finally my spirituality and connection to this Universe has a name!! I was thrilled as you can imagine. It makes a great deal of sense to me, science is not discourged but HIGHLY encouraged, I'm not asked to believe in things that break the laws of physics and the only faith I need is that I am a part of this great Universe. It's just so incredibly simple.
@urbandekay (18278)
•
27 Aug 07
You don't mention, perhaps the most interesting and certainly the most well thought out pantheist of all time, Spinosa.
Interestingly there need be no contradiction between belief in a personal God and pantheism
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
28 Aug 07
Spinosa was definitely a Pantheist pioneer so to speak. I didn't mention him to keep my post as short as possible, I was getting a little long winded..:D
You are absolutely correct. There are many Christian, Jewish and Muslim Pantheistic concepts.
Thanks for stopping by Urban! Your views are always welcome.
@soadnot (1606)
• Canada
27 Aug 07
as an atheist, i have been bouncing back from pantheism and agnosticism for a long time before i reached to my conclusion..
einstein, hawking, and many of the greats ridicule the god of the bible and the judgmental god.. but they dont call themselves atheists, they are indeed, pantheists.
the reason why i am not a pantheist and hawking and einstein are, is simply a case of physics.
einstein rejected his own quantum theory with his famous quote.. "god does not play dice"
on the other hand, hawkins has been trying to solve this for the longest time, with his version of string theory.. but again, not proven.
that is why even hawkins states that, at this point and time, god does indeed play dice..
so, i would call myself an atheist to the judgmental god, the conscious god, the personal god, much like the pantheist.
however, i cannot conclude anything, that is why i take the easiest root of atheism. [although one may say that atheism is a conclusion, and that i should be an agnostic, but i would dispute that for if beliefs do not change, they are not beliefs, it would be rather ignorance]
thanks
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
28 Aug 07
Hi soadnot!
There are a couple of points where your idea of Pantheism and mine are very different.
Where you said earlier in Galena's post that
"and there is no personal connection to "him" either."
That is quite the opposite of my belief. If you read my original post my belief is that God IS the Universe, we are a part of the Universe, ergo we are a part of God. How can we not have a connection to something we are a part of? That's sort of like saying your head has no connection to your body.. it makes no sense.
As far as Einstein rejecting his own quantum theory and his quote of "God doesn't play dice" has nothing to do with his Pantheistic beliefs whatsoever. All he was saying was that there are set rules to this Universe and he got one wrong. Just because someone can't yet prove a theory or got a theory wrong does not negate the Pantheistic concept in the least. In my opinion it only strengthens it.
The goal is knowledge and striving for more knowledge to understand the Universe and our place within it. That can only occur with education, research, scientific proofs and a lot of trial and error! Sometimes we get it wrong, but it doesn't stop us from trying again. Any scientist worth his salt would tell you that they are just a thrilled at being proved wrong as they are about being proved right.
Keep searching and learning soadnot! Thanks for your comments :D
I'm finding your entire post to be more opposing yourself and trying to figure out what you believe. Pardon me for saying so but it doesn't sound like you've quite made up your mind.
2 people like this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
27 Aug 07
"We are immortal, in that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Since we consist of matter and energy, we have always been and will always be a part of the Universe/God. So there is no heaven or hell."
I have a question about this. You live your human life on earth, then die, and go back to being part of the universe or whatever... do you retain some knowledge of that life on earth? Does the part that is you ever reemerge? I guess what I'm saying is... is it like reincarnation or losing that self when die?
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
27 Aug 07
Hi Lecanis! Glad you made it over!
I have the realization that there are things that are as yet unknowable or unexplainable due to our current limitations in intelligence and science. So as information becomes available and as human intelligence evolves things may change. That's why I prefer to call it a path instead of a religion. I don't limit my thinking to one way and stop.
What most Pantheists believe is we only get one shot, this is our only consciousness. There is no reawakening or passing on consciousness to another or a consciouness that moves to somewhere else.
Personally I keep an open mind but I pretty much believe the same. With the billions of humans who have existed on this planet over several thousand millenia, no one has been able to prove, with any scientific absolute, a continuation of conciousness after this one..... yet. That gets filed in a little folder in my brain labeled "unknowable". If science can prove it in a logical, quantifiable, realistic way before I die then I will move it out of that folder to my "reality" folder.
Thanks for stopping by hon, :D
1 person likes this
@cassidy22 (2974)
• United States
28 Aug 07
I guess I thought my Catholic upbringing included this as well. The whole "God is love, God is light, God is everything, God is everywhere" I figured that was part of it... he created what we see because he IS what we see.
That was just my take. I tend to like the concept of Pantheism much more than the rest of the guilt and BS that organized religion likes to pile on top. Keep it simple, one grand concept to encompass it all.
1 person likes this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
28 Aug 07
Thanks for your comments cassidy22! My mother was brought up as a Catholic and to her God is separate from "his" creation. In Pantheism there is no separation and no creation. What is has always been and always will be. It's a little more the scientific principle of matter and energy can not be created or destroyed, it just changes form. We are part of that whole of matter and energy.
It is rather hard to explain sometimes. :D It is a much simpler path of spirituality than trying to figure out what 5,000 people have written, translated, re-written and interpreted over and over for 2,000 yrs.
@RosieS57 (889)
• United States
27 Aug 07
Good summary of what philosophers call the First Cause aka the Big Bang Creator aka Creation.
What you're referring to is the interconnected web of existence in which everything in Nature affects everything else. I believe this, too, so it is important to be careful in what we do so that we Harm None. Including self.
I'm not Wiccan but am an Ancient Witch and what you are referring to is basic to the way I live as well. I do better with using the images and personalities of specific deities to focus my spiritual energies on, but if you don't need anyu and direct the energies to ALL or to the First Cause more power to ya!
1 person likes this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
27 Aug 07
Thanks Rosie! As I said in my original post I can relate to other paths and religions. Some closer than others. The Ancient Pagans and Ancient Witches are very close to my heart.
I so far have not had trouble focusing on, as you say, the First Cause for spiritual energies. I do admit to using a small pantheon of thoughtform deities to sometimes help me work out a problem or something that is confusing me. It does help to have a face to picture in your mind sometimes. I think it's very human to do that.
Thanks so much for commenting, I appreciate it. :D
1 person likes this
@applecartronnie (1984)
• India
27 Aug 07
this is ofcourse wonderful and looking at the big picture i would say that the universe is like nature, only bigger and grander. in nature things are born, complete a life span and then die, in the same way in the universe, things are born, they complete a life span and then die.
but what makes nature unique is life and what makes life unique is the comprehension of it. what has life can comprehend according to its own limits. say for a tree it might be be able to know water to the extent of it's requirement and might also be able to feel rain and maybe music because it is alive, and it is alive not because it moves but because it has life force, i believe every thing in the universe is alive. and i also believe in karma and more that one's karma effects one more than effecting everyone else in the same way. we are responsible for our actions not others. i feel that. mutual respect is important in order to grow.
there is one more thing i believe in , GOD is responsive and what we learn through nature and the universe teaches us a lot and we also get some answers but if nature and universe were GOD then it would talk back to us in our language. face to face and without any doubt we would know that that is GOD.
lovely post, apple.
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
27 Aug 07
Hi apple, thanks so much for your comments. You have a wonderful way of looking at life and nature both. I know how strongly you believe in your God and that is commendable and works best for you in your life.
I do get my answers in my own language, face to face, without any doubt. It's called science and knowledge. We discover more and more every day and it's answering my questions. Don't forget, in my belief we are a part of the Universe/God, not separate from it.
Thanks apple! :D
1 person likes this
@applecartronnie (1984)
• India
28 Aug 07
so it is in our faith too that we are a part of every created thing. thankyou for your kind words and your niceness. lots of love ever, apple. (smiles)
1 person likes this
