a new low
By carpenter5
@carpenter5 (6782)
United States
October 17, 2007 10:20pm CST
I am once again floored after hearing the news tonight, when an outreach minister at a baptist church here in Arkansas is arrested for raping a 13 year old boy.
My husband, as a pastor is just heartbroken, that this man has broken the trust that was placed in him by his church. He is not in our town, but when something like this happens, it effects all of us.
Although he was not a youth minister, he was obviously in a place of enough importance to be accessable to this young boy.
We need to unite to protect our children. We once again need to go over safety rules with them. Encourage them to speak up instead of keeping so quiet.
Agree or disagree? Why or why not?
9 people like this
16 responses
@ElicBxn (63594)
• United States
2 Nov 07
Oh, I agree. Actually, the RC church sort of brought it on to themselves by forcing their clergy to be celibate. And all because they wanted any moneys their future priests might have/earn to go straight to the church's coffers. Yes, that really is the reason.
2 people like this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
6 Nov 07
I don't know about that. In our church, my husband gets one set amount each week regardless of what the offerings are. I have been in churches where the pastor was paid whatever the "love offering" was for that week. I didn't like that because it seemed that what they were paid was how well they preached that week.
2 people like this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
And it isn't bound to just one religion. I know that the catholic church is the most publicized, maybe because their parents are the most vocal in demanding that something be done. I'm hearing more and more about coaches, dance teachers, parents, older siblings...it's just sad all around.
2 people like this
@kellyalex (151)
• China
18 Oct 07
Kids are always scary.That is understandable.As an adult,we try our best to protect them.
2 people like this
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
6 Nov 07
Amen, Carpenter 5, this is a plague.. a disease of the sickest proportion and the guilty need to be throughly quaranteened out of society.. make that choice, it ought to last forever.. Sometimes tho all these people get is less time than they spent molesting and raping the child.. or sometimes get off with just probation. Which is the symptom of u=yet another disease and plague. The one which says kids don't matter (from preborn to..?)..
2 people like this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
As a parent, and an educator, I am constantly on the lookout for children. Trying to protect them from harm is an awesome responsibility, and some people simply aren't up to the task. I don't understand anyone who could deliberately hurt a child.
1 person likes this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
7 Nov 07
You are right. When does it end? We kill the unborn, and now we are starving those that do not fit the idea and mold of what "life" is to our government. It is sad that we allow these things to happen without even trying to stop them.
1 person likes this
@littlefranciscan (18327)
• United States
18 Oct 07
I think there is a danger in all of this to associate the fact that the person doing this was wearing the cloth of a minister..
It's important to realize that people of all walks and occupations are doing this and that such things are a result of a perverted and distorted way of acting.
This minister..was acting as a sick person..using the cloth to get close to children.
There needs to be more scrutiny before allowing anyone into minsitry or any kind of occupation that deals with children.
Not just in the Church ministry but any ..teaching, doctoring, etc.
It's sad but remember it's not the church that is perverted..it's a person in the church!
2 people like this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
6 Nov 07
this is true. we are supposed to hate the sin and not the sinner. That doesn't mean that I want them working with my children though! But even with background checks in place, people are slipping through and getting into our schools!
1 person likes this
@GardenGerty (160621)
• United States
18 Oct 07
Satan seems to be attacking the church through temptation and immorality all over the place. Yes, we need to teach our kids it is okay to talk about what bothers them, or if they even get "funny feelings" when around these leaders. We need to train our pastors to sheild themselves also, to be modest and to have some safety guidelines, like avoiding situations that might tempt them. Yes, it affects us all and it hurts the witness of the church in general.
2 people like this
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
18 Oct 07
I don't think kids (especially) need to be spending time alone with people... doors need to be open! With people milling around and coming and going.. We all need to smarten up.
2 people like this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
You are both so right. My husband, as a minister, is so careful of leaving doors open, and having parents present when he counsels children and young teens.
He won't take any of our kiddos at church in our vehicle without one of our own children, or another adult with him. He would never dream of doing anything...but appearances are everything with you're a member of the clergy.
1 person likes this
@efc872 (1077)
• Jamaica
25 May 08
Do you think this preacher isn't going to heaven with you? Watch what is going to happen, He is going to confess his sin to the Lord and come out of church a brand new man while the child will not be able to confess his scar away. It will be there for life. What a religion, it is magnificent. Getting to love it.
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
There isn't going to be a trial! The man fessed up, pleaded guilty, and he's going away for many years. It seems there was enough evidence that he was afraid if he didn't take the deal, that the sentence would have been much much worse than what the DA was offering him.
1 person likes this
@mamasan34 (6518)
• United States
18 Oct 07
That is a crying shame! It brings such a bad light on pastors/ministers. It's just awful, but the bible does say there are "wolves in sheeps clothing". I guess he was not working for the Lord. I believe what you say is right. We do need to unite and stand up for our kids!
2 people like this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
Satan is alive and well and living in America. I read this on a bumper sticker today and it is so true. But it's not just here, He is attacking the church and her people from all sides and most of the time he is that wolf in sheeps clothing, and before we know it he is right in the middle of us.
1 person likes this
@missybal (4490)
• United States
19 Oct 07
It goes to show you can't judge a book by it's cover. So many time people will look at someone who is dressed in black with their nails painted black and chains down their pants and thing stay away from this person and then someone of the cloth you really don't think could ever do wrong. I'm sure the parents of the 13 year old didn't think there was any problem with the child spending time with a prest and so many times it may not have necessarily been the fault of the child. Yes children should be encouraged to speak up but parents need to be causious too. They should know all that their child does and should notice signs if they try to ask questions and the child seems nervous about answering. The easiest way to get a child to talk is to always talk on a regular basis about everything every day.
1 person likes this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
First of all, this wasn't a priest.
Most of the pastor's in the Baptist faith do not council children with the door shut, unless a parent is with them...at least the ones I know don't.
This incident also happened off church grounds in someone's house.
@Shaun72 (15959)
• Palatka, Florida
18 Oct 07
I fully agree. I hid the fact that I was molested untill I was a adult it can cause a lot of problems if you don't get cancelling with it. I felt ashamed for so long because of it . Then I realized later I was only 6 at the time so I was talked into it and it wasn't my fault it was my older cousins he was 16 I think I can't remember. Anyhow I fully agree with you.
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
wow. that's awful. I can understand your pain, my brother was molested by his boy scout leader when he was in 4th grade. This man was an officer in the Salvation Army here in town, when the boys finally came forward, they covered it up...and relocated this man, and refused to tell the prosecutor where he was. There were no laws then like we have now, so nothing was ever done.
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
6 Nov 07
Unfortunately then, it was the norm to "Sweep it under the rug" and pretend it didn't happen. It was years before my parents would talk about it. (This was in the 1970's) My brother did eventually get some help, but it was after he was grown and married.
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
18 Oct 07
This is horrible and shows how much Satan attacks the church. Every person that he can get to say that church ministers are abusers, is one more victory for the devil, and we must all pray that God gives strength to those that preach the gospel to resist se*xual temptation. It also helps to have a disciplinary committee in the Church who have the power to excommunicate any minister and members who commits acts such as sodomy, adultery, and other gross sins.
I feel sorry fort the boy and I hope he gets help right away. There is always a danger of him becoming a pedophile, but worse, of turning to homosexuality because his identity has become confused. He should speak out and tell what has happened to him.
We should tell our children that even so called friends are not friends at all and that there is such a person as a "funny uncle" and that they should tell an adult if someone touches them in that part of their body or wants them to touch theirs and tells them to be quiet.
Tell then to yell, to go to their parents, run, find a police officer and get help before their life is ruined.
2 people like this
@carolscash (9492)
• United States
19 Oct 07
This seems to be more and more common in the world that we are in now. It seems that more authority figures these days are the ones who are hurting our children more than anyone else. It is sad that the children can't go to church to learn about God without being assaulted like this.
We as parents have to teach our children that it doesn't matter who violates them,they have to speak up and tell us. There are not "secrets" between adults and children.
1 person likes this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
you are right! We were really careful with our kids when they were younger about keeping secrets. We taught them that not telling Daddy what Mommy bought him for his birthday was ok to keep a secret, but if they were hurt by someone, it was never ok to keep a secret then.
@mi2ok02 (406)
• United States
1 Nov 07
I agree and it is because even though Jesus taught us to love our enemies, he didn't say to trust our enemy. He said to trust Him! Although we want to believe that our brothers and sisters in Christ along with anyone in a leadership position in the church can be trusted, you just never know. Satan does come to church and he looks for way to destroy anything that belongs to God!
It is so very important to teach our children that it is imperative to speak up and speak loud as soon as anything questionable happens to them or anyone else so that it can be dealt with swiftly. We need to keep the devil out our churches. Not the people, just the way Satan gets ahold of our church family members.
1 person likes this
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
6 Nov 07
..pedaphyles seek these positions... counselors, teachers.. etc.. I grew up in the 50's. A kid could ride their bike all over.. and all by their self.. now I won't even let my grand daughter towards the front yard of our home, which is in the country, not even some huge city.. Some people think our society is "progressing" -- well I agree! But just where is it progressing to???
- This life is apocalypse.. which is the unavoidable lesson, if humans are to have thinking ability. [The key will be knowing when to hit the hills.. Mt 24:15,29,31; Dn 12:11,12; tell your grandchildren.]
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
I had a discussion just yesterday with my daughter about this very thing...the fact that Satan knows the bible better than all of us, and he's usually sitting right next to you in church!
I was so glad to see this church stand up for the family and condemn the sin (not the sinner)
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
19 Oct 07
I'm interested in that no one is placing any blame on the Christian Church for these child molestations. Seems to me after 2000 years of Christianity, the church at least, could separate the Chaff from the Wheat! It sickens me also that the Church Hierarchy has repeatedly covered up for the perpetraters, some of whom were Bishops. The Christian Church is Rotten to the Core! Has there been an outcry? Have people been staying away from Sunday Services in Protest? Not at all! Instead we warn out kids to never be alone with a Priest, leave the doors open so everyone can watch. Don't send your kids to Sunday school, Take them! And stay around to keep them safe! If this is Christanity, You can have it!
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
First of all...I agree that you should take your kids to church and not send them.
But, please understand that this church did not cover it up. He was dismissed and they cooperated with authorities. I have to tell you as the wife of a baptist minister, who would never violate a child, that it isn't very nice of you to lump everyone in with a few rotten apples.
Do you lump all teachers together because one violates a child...or how about a policeman who is too rough on a prisoner? Does that make all law enforcement bad?
This didn't happen in the Catholic church...we don't have Bishops in the Baptist faith.
1 person likes this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
6 Nov 07
See, you lump my husband in there though. He hasn't done anything. There are many good men in the faith that would never dream of doing something like that. Just as there are many good teachers. And this church DIDN"T cover it up. They stood with the families, reported the man and fired him, rather than sending him to another church in another state where he could do it again.
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
2 Nov 07
We must face the facts, no matter how bad it Looks! The Church (and I'm including all faiths here) Has been covering it up for God Knows How Long! This just didn't begin 10 or 12 years ago Its been going on for Ages. So I'm not lumping together a Few bad apples. I'm Lumping together the WHOLE Christian Church!
1 person likes this
@izathewzia (5134)
• Philippines
19 Oct 07
My heart is broken also upon reading your post. I am a Catholic and it is a common happening also in our church. I could not understand why the people who should teach us to do good are the ones who are violating the rules of being good. Worst, they are victimizing the youth who are just beginning to understandand the difference of good and bad. Yes, I am encouraging all the victims to speak up, wthaever religion they ae into, to stop child molestation in churches, congregations, or fellowships.
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
It is not just in the Catholic church, it isn't just in the protestant churches, or in the Jewish synagogues. It is happening in our homes, on the street, in our schools and even at the grocery store. We as parents need to step up and say ENOUGH!
@akyles11 (11)
• United States
19 Oct 07
As a former Catholic (I am now non-denominational Christian) I was shocked when the pedaphelia ring was discovered within the Catholic Church. That organization however, chose to protect its priests instead of its children. What should be occuring is an open conversation between churches and parents and children regarding this issue. If it is openly discussed in church for the children to hear, if something does occur they will know it was wrong and to tell someone immediately.
1 person likes this
@carpenter5 (6782)
• United States
1 Nov 07
Totally agree! That the church immediately spoke out for the child and for the family and against this minister at least gave me some faith! As a pastor's wife I tried to imagine what would happen with our small congregation if this were to occur, and it just made me sick.
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
18 Oct 07
I decided a long time ago that we have entered the twilight zone (do you remember that old show?)
- People with evil intentions will seek to be in those very places where we most do not want them! People like to put a particular title to it, but I'm not convinced we can call it a certain disease, I think it's base inhuman lust (and hatred) and young people are easier to manipulate.. and carry off.
@lhubert (63)
• United States
7 Nov 07
It is very sad. It seems that our children are getting hurt by people they trust more and more. It is a crying shame that your husband has to have a parent present when talking with a child. They may need to share some problems with them. One bad apple ruins the whole bunch.