My Take on Labor Unions
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
November 25, 2007 3:28am CST
To me, Labor Unions aren't much different than Big Business. I mean, I see how the union leaders live, and it doesn't seem any different than how corporate executives live. Both have salesmen who go out and use whatever means necessary to drum up paying customers. Both point their fingers, calling the other "crooked" "heartless" and "you just don't understand..."
That is what I think about unions. My take on Joining unions is...
If your job makes you a nameless, faceless number, you might as well join a union.
I have done them. I worked for LifeTime products for awhile. I spent 8 hours a night, 40 hours a week, putting pipes into machines and hitting buttons. When the machine stopped, there were neat little bolt holes in the pipe. I then took the pipe and stuck it on the moving rack, and the line moved along.
I hated the job. I hated the fact that the only difference between me and the machine was, I was the one pushing the buttons. I hated that while I was on that line, nothing about me mattered. No experience necessary because no experiences made a difference in doing the job.
People say that workers should negotiate with their employer for pay and benefits. I'm one of those people.
I admit though, when doing nameless, faceless jobs such as the one I did, there is nothing to negotiate with. A person who has done the job for 6 months is about the same as one who has done the job 6 years. So what does an employee bring to the negotiation table if he or she thinks they deserve more pay?
When I have negotiated for (and got) raises or more benefits, I got them because I was able to show the boss how much more my services was worth to the company than when I started). There isn't a whole lot a nameless, faceless employee can show.
So.. if you're job makes you a nameless, faceless number, then you might as well join a union. To me, the trick is to do those jobs if you have to, but only as a transition to something better. And what you do to rise above is on you. Not your boss, not your union leaders... YOU.
2 people like this
9 responses
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
25 Nov 07
The pioneering hero union leaders of history are no more like the current crop of union leaders than are the founding fathers of the USA like today's politicians.
3 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
25 Nov 07
Well, I can sympathise with your views on the corruption within Unions and abhor it. But those living outside UK would do well to learn the history of the Union movement here, learn how the pioneers of unions here, fought and eventually won, rights enjoyed by workers world-wide. These brave heroes won these rights for the workers of the world by self-sacrifice and were subject to being beaten, starved, evicted and left homeless and even murdered. At the time a miner had to buy his own tools and if he broke it, he and his family might well starve. To be a member of a union was illegal. If you enjoy decent pay for your labour, holidays, safe conditions in which to work, freedom from unfair dismissal and other such benefits then you owe a debt of gratitude to these union martyrs.
all the best urban
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Nov 07
But those heroes were only successful when they were willing ot do a little beating and murdering themselves.
The examples you give are why I can't be as anti union as I used to be though. Yes, there were inhuman abuses and the government helped the abuser instead of the abused, so a sort of "civil war" was bound to happen sometime.
Now I just see unions as any other service offered. However, I do draw the line at some union boss telling me I have to join their union to get a job.
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
25 Nov 07
Will Rogers use to have a saying to the effect that the first mistake a worker usually makes is to think he is working for the other guy. Actually, no matter who signs your pay check, you are working for yourself. It is a huge mistake to not realize that.
I think you and Will Rogers are expressing the same thought.
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Nov 07
Exactly! Workers need to see their skills and time as a commodity offered to customers in a market. Instead we go to a job interview as if we have our hat in our hands just hoping the company will "give" us a job.
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
26 Nov 07
I have lived teh union way for over 40 years and it di dprovide a good living for us. My hubby was a Union LIneman and we went all over the states working.
He didnt think of his self as a No. or faceless. Most I.B.E.W. knew him for his work and what he could do . He helped other to better theirselves with in the Union.Yup we paid teh dues BUt we did get a fare days pay for a fare days labor!
HE didnt go hat in hand for a job oh he maight have had to wait in line for a job for first came first severd.
and now that he is passed away I still benifit from the Union I get a check from them ever month and will for the rest of my life.
NOt sure about the way that the Upper crust of the Union did their work but with all the nogoseations they did we did get better pay checks that the non Union workers
and You shouldnt get into the union with out skills and being an apprentice for the four years it take to get there.
Got down the hyway and see the towers put up to power that school that hospital that house look any where and you will see where the Uninon worker has been and did the work to make your life better.
1 person likes this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
26 Nov 07
am sorry that you sen this side of the Union and that isnt good for them to lie.
I know it is worse to be unionized in factories.
For you dont know for sure how good teh one holding the money is now if they are cheats they wil run with the money I seen it at a shoe factory in Tenn do just that when they left town all the employs got was a dinner and tehn to find out the money was gone.
I have also seen where or heard where a union tried to go into a place in Miss. that the company didnt want and they hung a dummy and said that what they would do to any one that tried to join the uninon that isnt right either .
GUess we picked the right one to get into.and the good years to get into it.
Your young and have seen the worst part maybe you need to broaden your horizons
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Nov 07
I've lived in 11 states. Seen some good come from unoins and some bad. Like any industry (and yes, unions are an industry), you get the good and the bad.
I'm just glad I live in a state where the choice is MINE. Closed shop states are anti freedom.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Nov 07
Glad the union way did well for you. The sad fact is though, I know a lot of people who have been screwed by their unions.
Unions can do a lot for them, but there are risks too. Unions can't guarantee better pay, benefits or working conditions. I've worked in areas were the worst pay, benefits and working conditions were the union ones.
When people join unions, they need to know they are merely buying a service, not quarentees. In fact the only guarantee I've seen from unions is you will pay union dues.
I have worked against unionization of the places I've worked. I have seen union salesmen lie through their teeth. I have seen them make promises they knew they couldn't guarantee. I have seen them turn a great place to work into hell on earth.
With all that, I have also seen people like you who were well served by their union.
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
25 Nov 07
I agree. Unions have been and still are corrupt but they are the only voice the nameless, faceless worker has.If I were working that type of job ,damn right I would be in the union.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Nov 07
Only because the worker has chosen to be nameless and faceless.
1 person likes this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
26 Nov 07
A moments reflection will assure you that not all workers can yes such jobs as stepping stones, in fact for the vast majority these jobs are the norm
all the best urban
2 people like this
@hypersoniq (34)
• United States
26 Nov 07
I used to work for Agere (formerly Lucent). One day they announced layoffs, the next there were 6,000 people in several states out of work... People who counted on stocks for retirement collectively lost millions because the $80/share stock plummeted to $4/share (and some days less). This was a place with a union (International brotherhood of electrical workers). Now I work in a non-union machine shop setting up wire EDM machines for MUCH less pay. When corporate crunch time comes, unions are useless. The perks are much better in a union shop, however. I am now working mandatory 10 hour days all week, no afternoon break, no training, no chance to "rise above".
I take matters into my own hands on election day!
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Nov 07
True, even the strongest unions in the world aren't going to help if the company just loses so much money it can't continue at the same rate.
@venshida (4836)
• United States
27 Nov 07
Amen, union is definately the same as big business. I was a union member, and I did not see any benefit to being a member. I made more money when I was not a member.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
27 Nov 07
Made more money, and didn't have to pay union dues to get it. ;~D
What gets me is, to union leaders, when a company pays a good wage and offers great benefits, they call it "union busting".
How arrogant of them.
@Debs_place (10520)
• United States
26 Nov 07
You know Para, I used to feel that way, then about 15 years ago the company I worked for went through some major changes, many people got laid off and I am not talking factory workers, I am talking many well educated people.
Eventually, 2 years ago, it got to me, but by this point, it was routine, as people started getting closer to retirement (I had 22 years in my company) I lost my job. They just cut jobs, sent out jobs to other countries, no reason. The employees got the shaft. We were like lambs to the slaughter...no one to fight for us.
At least if we had a union, salesmen or not, someone would have been fighting for us...united we stand.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Nov 07
I know people whose jobs were saved because of the union, and I know people whose jobs were lost because of the union.
I know executives who have been let go simply because the new CEO brought in his own people, and yes, like you, people who were let go simply because the company didn't want to pay retirement.
what does it all mean? It means that there is no such thing as "job security" and being a union member, executive or anything doesn't change that.
@RookRocks (381)
• Philippines
27 Nov 07
This is very american in ideology. Putting everything down to the individual, centering the responsibilities of progress on the worker. And this is a very narrow take on the aspect of individual development.
For one thing, it neglects the fact that not everything can be done by the individual. There are structural barries or constraints that might prevent them from doing so. Thus, to praise them for their success or to blame them for their failures without looking at the structure that is over and above the individual is a shallow explanation of their conditions.
You're lucky you were able to access your employer with regards to your demands. But how many can say that they have the privelege of talking to their superiors? How many can say that as individuals they are free to appeal to their bosses? And how many have the guts and the consciousness to do so? Perhaps they are not even aware that they are being exploited. They just thought that what they were doing is natural and a part of the job.
You're generalizing too much based on your experiences. In some parts of the world, some people's culture dictates a certain work ethic that they cannot oppose their bosses. Or in some instances (in some countries) worker rights are so exploited that one complaint of dissatisfaction is equal to termination. And more than generalizing, you're also reducing so many factors of progress to a single variable - the individual effort. No social scientist would commend you on that.
All in all, I think you were lucky. But do these luck extend to the global worker population? NO.
And that is where UNIONS come in.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
27 Nov 07
Did you even read the article? I said that if your job makes you a nameless faceless number, you might as well join a union.. or get a different job. Which (unless I'm mistaken) is about what you said here.
As far as the importance of individual effort, all problems should be taken care of at the most basic level possible.
The individual is the most basic level, but not always the most basic level possible. Family, organization, community, city, county, state, nation... all of these levels have their purposes and should each should be just strong enough to be able to take care of its responsibilities.
Responsibility to what? Maximizing Personal freedom.
