gender
gender expectations
gender roles
gender stereotypes
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homophobia
homosexual
relationship
Gender roles and expectations.
@collegeoptimist (86)
United States
November 25, 2007 7:55pm CST
I'm interested in discussing gender roles and expectations, both in heterosexual and homosexual relationships.
I've noticed, especially when conversing about homosexuality, that some people have particular issues with individuals who do not meet the specific gender stereotypes of our society.
Men who are not masculine enough are stigmatized as "f.ags" or "queers," even if they are not. Women who stray too far from the feminine norm are labeled as "d.ykes" or "butches."
How far do we have to come as a society in order to banish this gender roles, expectations, and stereotypes? Are they even necessary? Is there something inherently wrong about straying from the expectations of your gender? Or do people need to lighten up?And, especially, are the stigmas placed on the people who stray from gender expectations different/better if they are in a heterosexual relationship, and why?
Thanks.
3 people like this
4 responses
@lilaclady (28207)
• Australia
26 Nov 07
Oh I think there needs to be a lot of lightening up in this area, people seem to have name tags that people must fit too, it isn't always like that, as I have said many times everyone is different and a lot of people do not fit to any of the tag names. I am a female and I have had a lot of experience with people that fall under a lot of these tag names, I am a straight female but for two years I had a very close relationship with a gay male, not a physical relationship but emotionally very strong, through this person I met many of his friends, I met some people who also do not fit the tag names, like straight married men who don't mind a bit of fun with gay guys but they do not consider themselves gay, they have no attraction to to members of their own gender, I am a person that people can talk to in confidence and have told many things, from some of these conversations I would say there are a lot of married women out there that do not realize what their husbands have been up to.
2 people like this
@lilaclady (28207)
• Australia
26 Nov 07
I think things are changing a little, but I think you will find there are a lot of men who dabbles as I have been told but never admit it as they would in most cases lose their marriages. The gay fella I spent two years with said I would be shocked to know how many married men he had been with, and none of them condiser themselves gay. I think the labelling should stop as most people these days do what makes them happy...
2 people like this
@collegeoptimist (86)
• United States
26 Nov 07
Something that my friend said to me the other day that I find very interesting is that most of the human population are potentially bi-curious to some degree.. I think that relates to your example about the married men who sometimes have occasional gay relationships. I know what you mean about gay men not knowing how many married men they've slept with.. Sometimes, however, (as I have seen in a few cases), these men are actually gay but are hiding and/or stuck in their heterosexual marriages.
2 people like this
@lilaclady (28207)
• Australia
26 Nov 07
Its hard to speak about a subject like this on a forum because you never know what is going to come across as offensive but the gay guy I knew told me once that a gay guy can give another man something he can not help but come back to something a woman can not, years later a friend of mine who is happily married and has never been attracted to a man got mixed up in a threesome and this was where he was intorduced to this, and he also said to me once a man experiences that he said you can't help but want more...so maybe there is something....
2 people like this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
26 Nov 07
This is a subject I'm actually very passionate about.
I loathe gender roles really, the only time I think of them is when I think about how much I wish they'd disappear.
"Butch" and "Femme" are more..styles, to me, than WHAT a person is. And everyone should be able to choose their own style, WITHOUT discrimination.
Take me for example, I'm not very femme or butch, I tend to have more of the random somewhat in-between but still practical looks.
When I'm feeling expressive it's not surprising for me to wear stripes and polka dots TOGETHER with crazy colors.
Does this make me eccentric? Not necessarily.
To define any individual would take a lifetime, and one everyone should be fully dedicated to spending, if they wish to use ANY lables.
Alas, this does not always occur to everyone.
Society operates within standards and "norms". Of course, civilizations have always changed..and the norms change right along with them, so its not necessarily the standards amd norms which're the problems..but the most people's inability to think BEYOND them, their desperate clinging to them..which places boundries on themselves and sometimes people will try to impose them on others.
We're supposed to be a free-thinking society, but...people don't always much act like it, trying to always conform.
Mind, not everyone's stick in gender roles and expectations..but alot of people still are. It hasn't really lessened that much since fifty years ago, the language of it has, and maybe it's gotten...slightly less vivid. Something people take for granted.
But it's still around.
2 people like this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
26 Nov 07
stuck*
sorry, the i and u are right next to eachother on this keyboard.
1 person likes this
@collegeoptimist (86)
• United States
26 Nov 07
I agree with "butch" and "femme" being styles instead of identities. I think those terms have to do with hairstyle and style of dress as opposed to personality or adherence to gender norms. I'm very passionate about this topic as well.. it thrills me to have read intelligent answers to my questions.
@mensab (4200)
• Philippines
26 Nov 07
gender roles and expectations help organize our society. those who stray from the gender norms help enrich the diversity of our society. sadly, our world is governed by standards. the level of acceptance to a group or society depends on the compliance to the standards. in other words, the farther one strays away, the less accepted one will be in the society. this happens to those who stray from the gender norms. it is true that they are stigmatized. compared ten years ago, stigmatization for homosexuals is getting duller. gradually, they are being assimilated and accepted as part, productive and creative part of society.
i know there are still few battles to be won, yet i believe we have already triumphed.
2 people like this
@collegeoptimist (86)
• United States
26 Nov 07
Thank you, your answer is wonderful. I do believe that gender roles help organize our society, but I think we are slowly breaking out of that. It's wonderful to see women getting high-powered jobs whereas years ago that would have never happened. However, if you look at the statistics (I read about this in the book Blink by Malcolm Gladwell), most high-end executives are white men, still. Although we are creeping our way into a society in which the lines between the genders are being blurred, we still have a long way to go. Also, I'm glad to see your positive outlook on things.
1 person likes this
@UnselfishShellfish (1306)
• United States
26 Nov 07
Just like Bill Cosby said about blacks: In order to stop whites from using the N word, blacks must stop using it themselves. It's not okay for a white person to say the N word then get hung out to dry, but rappers and other black people can say it and it's okay. Double standard there?
Same thing. I know some gay people are a bit, um, open about their sexuality and let the whole world know it. They themselves call each other flaming f-g queens and flaming queers, and until that stops, why cant we all call people f-gs and queers? Why is it only wrong for outsiders to call them as much, but it's perfectly okay for insiders to call each other those words.
Stop the words from the inside group. The work on the outsiders.
1 person likes this
@collegeoptimist (86)
• United States
26 Nov 07
That is an excellent point. It is a definite double-standard. I am personally against all derogatory terms.. I don't like it when "f.ag" is used whether by a gay man or a homophobic individual. To me, it always has negative connotations, and I think that, just like the black men who call themselves the "n" word, the gay men who call themselves f.ags are just instigating the problem. The issue is getting them to realize that.
1 person likes this