Do you really believe in... ??
By Leca
@lecanis (16647)
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
December 8, 2007 6:42pm CST
I've decided this is one of the most offensive phrases I've heard. "Do you really believe in...?" The reason I say this is because it implies that it's completely insane to believe in whatever you do, or that it's so weird the other person can't wrap their mind around it.
I got roped into talking about religion at work the other day, which isn't something I normally do. And my coworker (one of the newer ones) asked me "Do you really believe in these Gods and Goddesses of yours?" I didn't hit her, or blow up in her face, I'm proud to say. However, I countered with "Yes, I do. Do you really believe in your God?" She said "Of course I do, but my God is..." and then couldn't figure out what to say to properly separate her God from my Gods.
Would you get offended if someone incredulously asked you "Do you really believe in... (insert whatever you believe in)"? What would you say to that person? Do you ask other people this question, as if you can't accept that they believe in something other than what you believe in?
6 people like this
19 responses
@Jorden91 (53)
• United States
9 Dec 07
I fully believe in a few things, the first thing is GOD. Oh boy, I said it, God. It's sad how rare it has become for someone my age to say that they believe in God, Well I do. I believe in God because there are so many creatures in the world but there is only one type of creature (humans) that have a set of morals. Why is it that we are the only ones with morals? It's because God created US in HIS image.
another thing I have an undeniable belief in is Love.
why is it that I can be pissed off at my little brother but never want to hurt him, why is that my girlfriend can annoy me so much yet I still want to see her, why is it that when I don't see my parents for a while I feel empty. It's one word, LOVE. It's what makes the world go round and it's what can stop the universe for a brief moment when you hear the girl/guy you love say "I love you too"
the last thing I believe in is our soldiers, They give all they can give day and night thousands of miles away from their home for people that, no lie, hold up signs saying "thank God for IED's" (improvised explosive devices) They are #2 only to God in things I believe in and more people should feel that way
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
9 Dec 07
Well, it's great for you that you believe in God, but that doesn't really answer my question. I was asking about how you would feel if someone approached you in a disrespectful manner about your beliefs, asking incredulously if you really believed, and how you respond.
I personally don't believe in the same God you do, but it's fine with me that you do. :)
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
9 Dec 07
I have never thought of the question of "Do you really believe_____?" as offensive because I have always just thought of a question of this nature as...well, "duh!" I mean to me it is a stupid question. Of course the person really believes in ______ . If they didn't, they wouldn't express that they did! I have asked people why they believe whatever is it they believe from time to time. I ask that question because not to offend or judge, but to learn or to gain a better understanding of the person or both; but I do not ask people if they really believe (whatever it is). That's a dumb question and I don't like asking dumb questions. lol
3 people like this
@sigma77 (5383)
• United States
9 Dec 07
I don't think it would bother me. I can see in this instance where you might get upset. I think it depends on the belief. When it comes to Gods and religions, just about anything goes. And who is to say what beliefs are true or not? For me, I do believe in a God, and also Goddesses. In fact she is the woman living down the street...lol. I don't question anyone's beliefs simply because I have no power of judgment.
2 people like this
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
9 Dec 07
Offended? I would be livid and I would answer the way you did and that would be the last conversation we would ever have.It shows how insensitive she is and that she couldn't finish her thoughts on why her G-d was better shows how stupid she is on this topic.It is like there is this big competition among religions. it is like a line from the movie Wrath of God, " My father in heaven can beat your father in heaven". And it is so unnecessary. There are many paths and they all are valid and should be respected. A person who can't at least be respectful of other religions is a person I don't want to be around.
2 people like this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
9 Dec 07
Yes, I get so tired of the petty competitions! It is just like little kids! :P
I don't think I've ever told anyone that my Gods could beat up theirs, because frankly I don't really care who follows what Gods. And yet people treat me this way no matter how polite I am about their beliefs. It's frustrating!
Yes, I really don't care to talk to this person further, though thankfully the other new employees at my job are nice. :)
1 person likes this
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
11 Dec 07
I am glad your other co workers are good people.
1 person likes this
@marinarovi (1318)
• Argentina
9 Dec 07
I won't try to convince him/her. But don't you touch my beliefs!! I think each of us believes in different things, for different reasons, they way you grew up, an experience you had, etcetera. So there's no way of talking anyone into believing the same as you do. There's no rational explanations for most things we believe in.
A history teacher once told me, she was sure that God existed, since "God is people's need to believe". So God exists, after all, no matter what we call him.
=) great post, lecanis!
2 people like this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
9 Dec 07
Thanks, marinarovi!
You have an excellent point about the effect of personal experience on your beliefs. I believe what I believe because of my personal experiences, and since those experiences have been different from most people's, my beliefs are also different. :P
2 people like this
@marinarovi (1318)
• Argentina
11 Dec 07
Sure, and as long as it works fine for you, you shouldn't let other people talk you out of it!!
Besides, although I'm catholic, I pay a lot of attention to history and don't but everything catholics say, and actually many christian traditions and holidays and saints are just polytheism under cover. They collected the many pagan gods the different peoples in Europe had, and turned most of them into christian saints or christian holidays, ir order to get more followers.
Did you know that Christmas for instance was moved to december 25th because there was a huge holiday throughout europe that was a pagan celebration of the sun, and so it was "easier" for new catholics to celebrate christmas on such an already meaningful day?
That is my religion too, and I'm not trying to offend anyone here. Just saying that there's more that one and only truth to everything.
=) Hang on to your beliefs, no matter what they say.
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
11 Dec 07
Yup, Christmas was moved to be close to the Winter Solstice, because almost every pagan religion has some form of celebration of the Winter Solstice. The Norse call it Yule, the Romans call it Saturnalia, others call it just Midwinter or Winter Solstice, but almost everyone had a celebration at that time.
Brigid is the best example of the Saint thing you mentioned. The holidays and symbols associated with the Goddess Brigid/Brigantia are pretty much the same as the one associated with Saint Brigid.
@aidenofthetower (1814)
• United States
9 Dec 07
It is easy to become offended when your beliefs are challenged, especially in a disrespectful way. However, chances are pretty good that she doesn't really know what she believes any way. She just thinks that is the norm and that is how it should be. We all want to believe we are right and for many of us, if we are right that means anyone who believes something else must be wrong, crazy, and or demented.
By the way, with all respect to what you believe, what Gods and Goddesses do you believe in?
2 people like this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
9 Dec 07
It is easy to become offended when beliefs are challenged, but it's never yet bothered me when done in a respectful way. I have plenty of answers for why I believe the way I do that come from my own experience, so it doesn't bother me to give those answers if someone asks politely. Personally I don't care when people believe differently than I do, as long as they aren't rude to me.
My Gods and Goddesses are Celtic ones. My ancestry is half Irish, and I learned about the religion of our Celtic ancestors from my great-grandmother after having dreams about the Morrigan, who is now my personal primary Goddess. I tend to call myself a Celtic Reconstrucstionist Pagan.
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
9 Dec 07
Haha, as a kid I just said "Celtic pagan" but I met some Reconstructionists and liked the term because it admits that the history of our religion is incomplete, and thus our ways of practicing aren't exactly the same as our ancestors. I asked my great-grandmother who taught me what she thought of the term, and she said "That's it! That's exactly what we're doing, reconstructing!" So that's why I use that term.
The other useful part of the Celtic Reconstructionist term is that people will ask what it means instead of just assuming they know. When I was saying "Celtic Pagan" as a kid, a lot of people would assume that meant Wicca because a lot of people think that's the Celtic religion, while Wicca actually a new religion that uses practices from a LOT of older pagan religions, not just Celtic ones. So I like that if I say "Celtic Reconstructionist Pagan" people will actually let me explain it instead of assuming they know and getting it wrong. :P
Where in Michigan are you from? I'm in the UP! I wish it were 70 here now, it's 10 degrees here right now, and snowing. Yesterday I stepped hip-deep in the snow accidentally!
I suppose I could start a Celtic discussion, but it would take a while to write. There are a LOT of Gods and Goddesses, though I suppose I could start with a few major ones and work from there. I'd also have to discuss a bit of the history and ethics of the Celts to really explain things well too. *thinks* I'll have to start working on it, but it probably won't go up today, unless it's much later! :P
@aidenofthetower (1814)
• United States
9 Dec 07
That is wonderful! Though the title you have given yourself seems rather complicated. I just realized...YOUR FROM MICHIGAN...we are too...at least originally. Now we live in a land where it has been 70 all week! But I do miss Michigan...
I don't know much about Celtic Gods and Goddesses, maybe you should start a thread to teach us! I am sure there are others on here who could add to the conversation, and then we could ask questions. I love learning...
Though this post makes me sound really young...oh well, just really tired! Have a good one!
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
10 Dec 07
Hi bala! What a great response!
You have a good point that it's really no one's business what you believe in, but some people do like to talk about it just as a way to learn. I know I love to learn about other people's beliefs, but I only talk about them in respectful ways, never like this!
@MsTickle (25180)
• Australia
13 Dec 07
When I joined mylot I was terribly ignorant in the area of religion. Being here and learning about other's beliefs has been a journey. What an eye opener.
Anyone who asks someone that is ignorant and rude and tactless. I don't mean that in a nasty sense, I mean they really don't know anything except their own beliefs.
I've seen a lot of people here who are closed on the subject of religion, meaning, they don't want to know about anyone else's beliefs unless they coincide with their own....you know the one's i mean.
I think these people need a lesson in tolerance above everything else.
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
13 Dec 07
Yes, being closed like that is such a detriment, to yourself and others around you! It's great when people can move past that, but I know many people who never do sadly. I still have hope for the young lady who said this... she's got a long time to learn better at least.
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
11 Dec 07
Lol. I've been in a conversation like this.
Mostly, I just smile and say, "Yes, but then, though not at all being an expert, I did alot of research on this and many other topics similiar from around the world as well." and if they sputter that their God is somehow better than mine, I'll reply; "Can you claim you're more educated than me?"
_ yes, I'm quite fine with manipulating a conversation to the point where if they continued on with that, they would be purposefully insulting me lol.
*does it often and on purpose so people leave me alone*
Because the whole; "My god is better than your god" thing...I consider to be childish. It's like "My dad can beat up your dad"...stupid, pointless, not worth my time lol.
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
11 Dec 07
I'm usually pretty good at finding ways to steer the conversation like that too, but it's a little harder at work for me, because if I'm in a discussion about religion and the other person gets offended, I'm the one people are going to be mad at, no matter what.
Yes, I think the "my god is better than your god" thing is quite childish too! :P
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
12 Dec 07
Yeah, it can be a bit hard..especially if one's opponet in the debate is also good at that lol.
@Springlady (3986)
• United States
10 Dec 07
No, I wouldn't be offended at all. I would tell them about the Lord and invite them to ask Him into their lives as well.
God bless:)
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
10 Dec 07
So you don't think it's a rude question, talking to you as if you were a child and didn't know what you believed?
Of course your religion and mine say different things about what you're supposed to do. It's perfectly acceptable for me to share knowledge or try to teach tolerance, but it's not my job to tell or ask anyone to follow my Gods.
@Springlady (3986)
• United States
11 Dec 07
But it is my job as a Christian to tell others about the love of Christ. :)
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
9 Dec 07
Hi lecanis, I try not to be rude and I think what your coworker said was very rude. Maybe she hadn't thought about how it would sound to you. I believe that life neither began with this body nor will it end with it. I don't believe in the traditional heaven or hell of the Christian religion in which I was raised. Other then that, I'm pretty open, so not much offends me. Blessings.
2 people like this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
9 Dec 07
I'm guessing that she didn't think at all, personally. ;p
I have very specific beliefs of course, but I don't mind that other people believe differently than I do. My Gods will talk to people that they want to follow them personally, they don't need me to do it for them. So I only talk to others about beliefs in terms of learning and tolerance, not trying to get people to believe in my Gods.
1 person likes this
@BayleighGray (4334)
• United States
11 Dec 07
Very enlightening Lecanis!
I never really thought about that phrase in that way, and yes I would feel very offended if someone asked me something like that. How rude!
Come's across that they feel your out of your ever loving mind, how rediculous! Really makes someone look like they are so much better than someone else too. I hope she realised what she did to you. She might not say so, but I hope she just recognized that it was not the right thing to say.
Bay Lay Gray xx
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
11 Dec 07
Exactly! I love how you said that... "Come's across that they feel your out of your ever loving mind". That's exactly how it comes across to me too!
*nods* I hope she realized as well. I'd really like to get along with all my coworkers, so hopefully this early experience with this one won't spoil things.
1 person likes this
@BayleighGray (4334)
• United States
12 Dec 07
I'm sure that it won't, you don't let it anyway. Keep treating her with kindness and respect, she will see that religion doesn't matter. And if she don't then she's a lost cause and nothing to worry yourself about.
Bay xx
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
9 Dec 07
Your right people can't seem to wrap their mind around something that is different! I love it though- I don't bash anyone for their beliefs. The fact that you didn't blow up in her face says alot about what you believe in as far as respecting others. What is your "faith" exactly- in another discussion you mentioned winter solstice- are you Wiccan? I may sound stupid- but I love learning about other faiths- they intrigue me and I think I want one that I can connect with! Anyway, I don't think I would be offended, depending on how close I was to the person, I would try to share knowledge about a faith if it was one of those that people in the general population deemed out of the main stream or weird for lack of a better word.
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
9 Dec 07
I'm Celtic Reconstructionist Pagan actually. To explain THAT pretentious title... I basically follow the Celtic Gods in as close to the way my ancestors followed them as possible given the imperfect historical record and changing societal rules.
While my religion and Wicca do both fit under the umbrella term of "Paganism" and some of the Wiccan holidays come from Celtic ones, they are actually very different religions. I don't follow the Wiccan Rede and I only follow Celtic deities and traditions, while Wicca takes deities and traditions from many cultures.
I love learning about other faiths too actually... I've studied quite a few. :)
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
9 Dec 07
Sounds interesting- I'll have to look that up!
1 person likes this
@smwilliams (647)
• United States
13 Dec 07
People are closed minded and brought up to believe that the religion that they are taught when they are younger is the only one. Personally I have been asked the same thing in the past..and I countered with a similiar response...Its funny to see the look on peoples faces when you do that. The girl that I had countered back to tryed to go into a huge explanation as to why her religion was the "only" religion..I laughed kinda and asked her one simple question...Why? And then how do you know? I asked her for facts and she couldnt give me any..And I also spoke to my boss about it because this isnt the first time this girl has been pushy to people about religion...He told her to save people off the clock because its not ethical to discuss it in the workplace.
Its disturbinh that people feel the need to be pushy instead of just listening stating their opinions and leaving it at that. And if people ask me if I really believe in something the answer is yes...Im not going to change my mind just because they want me too, or because they cant see past their own noses :)
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
13 Dec 07
I think my coworker was at least smart enough to know that nothing she could say could help the situation... that or she just couldn't think of anything to say at all. :P
I have the problem that usually if someone gets in trouble for talking about religion in the workplace, it seems to be me, even if I'm the one who reported the problem. Simply because my beliefs are less popular. Though to be fair, I haven't tried mentioning it to my current boss, so it could go differently this time.
It is very disturbing that people feel the need to be so pushy. It's just completely beyond my comprehension. I believe what I believe, and I know why I believe that, but I don't expect everyone else to believe it!
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
13 Dec 07
*nods* It's religious discrimination, and I should probably have fought it at my previous job, but I didn't. What happened was that a bunch of people were in a religious discussion, and I mentioned it to the manager because it was starting to get kind of rude, and I was the one who got in trouble even though all I had done was answer questions others asked about my beliefs. Bleh.
@smwilliams (647)
• United States
13 Dec 07
Exactly...Everyone is entitled to their OWN opinions and beliefs. That doesnt make me the right person in any situation..it just means thats what I believe and people should respect that.
As for you getting in trouble because your beliefs are less popular...Thats like religious segregation or something along those lines and it would piss me off. If you do talk to your boss about it..be sure to let her know that your not a pushy religious person its just what you believe and people should respect you for it. : )
1 person likes this
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
10 Dec 07
LOL first off kudos to you for not slapping her in the mouth ;-) Secondly, yea I find that sort of thing offensive simply because its just such an arrogant attitude for one to have ya know..No one way is better than any other and no two ppl are alike so to assume that we should all believe the same thing OR that one persons beliefs are "less than" (by asking a question like that its implying a less than IMO) is ignorant. I also find comments or questions of that nature to be patronizing really almost as if the person asking is seeing the askee (is that even a word LOL) as a child or something ya know which to me is HIGHLY offensive....Dont talk down to me cause i WILL pop you in the mouth then lay such a verbal strip into you you'll be in a daze for yrs...
Do I ask others questions like that? No I dont think I have...I may say during a conversation somethign like "but is that really what YOU believe or is it what you've been conditioned/raised/told etc to belief"....but no I dont think I've ever taken the "do you really believe in....." approach with anyone and I'd be very surprised to find out that I had if ever ya know..simply because I'm such a curious person it would be totally out of character for me to downtalk someone like that..Ask questions? Sure! all the time..LOL I'm a living breathing "Johnny 5" and need tons of input but to ask in a sense like what you are saying..no thats not my style....
crap I'm yappy today LOL
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
10 Dec 07
Yup, I've really learned to control my temper over the years, even when people are very rude to me!
I agree that this question makes it sound like the person is treating you as if you are a child or someone incapable of understanding what they are saying. It's very frustrating.
I have also asked people whether their beliefs come more from actual experience and feelings or from outside influences, but that's a whole different question in my opinion!
Hehe, you are yappy, but that's okay! :)
@kitchenwitchoftupper (2290)
• United States
11 Dec 07
My next door neighbor, Nancy, is one of my closest friends. She is a Catholic, but she is also a person and does not identify her entire being by what her religious affiliation happens to be. She is also a wife, a mother of 5, a volunteer to many charity committees (president of several of them). Although her husband brings home a 6-figure income easily, she still shops at thrift shops, her husband and herself drive vehicles that are well over 10 years old, they just got their first cell phones about 5 months ago and only because I kept pressuring her to do so since she has a daughter in college who is on the road quite a bit. She is an amazing woman with a doctorate in chemical engineering but is so freaking down to earth and her goal is to somehow get involved in midwifery. She does not go to confession because she thinks it highly offensive that she should have to confess to a man. As I said, I love this woman dearly. When we were first getting to know each other and when I was still involved in some spell work she happened to come over as I was working a kitchen spell. I had all of the herbs ground, the mortar and pestle were still sitting out, the correctly colored candle was burning, the crystals were aligned with the cardinal directions, and the herbs were burning atop the charcoal incense inside the black cauldron. For my privacy's sake, I was grateful that I was just finishing up. She got into the huge decorative tin box that I keep all of my baggies of herbs in and started looking through them. I loved the fact that she was reading the "uses" for them as they were printed on the bags. She was doing this as I was making tea for us. Neither of us was saying a word. When the tea was made, I got each of us some cookies, plated them up, put everything on a tray with cloth napkins, then went over to the table and removed all of the herbs and everything else that she had been looking at to place down the tea tray.
We sat in silence for a few minutes and then she asked, "What are you?" I knew what she meant, but the ornery nature in me made me ask her what she wanted me to answer. She then said, "Well, I notice you never go to church on Sunday, do you believe in something else or do you just not believe in anything, or what are you?" I then just told her, "Oh, Nancy, that's simple, "I'm Everything". She had no problem at all accepting that. Perhaps that is something you could try. I think that we all believe in the same "basic" universal light/life force and choose to call it by the name(s) that we can best relate to it/them to give us the peace and comfort we need. ~Donna Momma
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
11 Dec 07
What a beautiful story, Donna! Thanks for sharing! :)
I need more friends who will be this quickly accepting! Even many of the people I am friends with now took some time getting used to me, and quite a few of them thought they didn't like pagans until they found out I was one, after they already respected me.
I guess for me I have a lot of attachment to my specific deities and my dedication to them... so it's hard for me to grasp that "everything" belief. I don't dislike it or anything, I just can't grasp it.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
9 Dec 07
I agree that's an offensive question and I'd never ask someone that! I think you said the right thing back to your co-worker and maybe she didn't finish her sentence because she'd realized what a dumb question she'd asked you. At any rate, I wouldn't be speaking to her again any time soon!
Annie
1 person likes this
@makingpots (11915)
• United States
11 Dec 07
That is a very offensive phrase. Whether or not I would take offense if it were said to me depends completely on the person saying it. When I was a teen and then into my twenties, I would have felt like I needed to defend myself no matter who said it. But as I have aged I've grown to understand that there are just shallow, narcicistic people in this world who really can't think outside of their own beliefs. These people aren't worth defending my beliefs to because that wont really hear what I say. If I recognize those traits in the person who would say such an ignorant statement to me, I would completely let it slide off my back and maybe even feel bad for them and all they are missing in life by having such a shallow existence.
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
11 Dec 07
You make a good point.
I guess I only mind such things when they are said by people I have to be in contact with. If a stranger that I could easily never see again said the same thing, it wouldn't bother me. However, since this is a person I work with and see all the time, it bothered me more.
@mustafabadri (178)
• India
10 Dec 07
i do agree that this is the most offencive phrase! the people who ask these kind of questions themselves are not sure enough about their believes, as per my knowledge no religion teaches to hurt others by the name of religion.
may bu these kind of people want to creat enimity among people by proving their religion supperior to others.
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
10 Dec 07
I think some people feel that if anyone else doesn't believe in what they do, it hurts their own faith. That's the only reason I could imagine for being this rude... that the person couldn't understand and accept that I could believe differently, because they feel everyone has to believe the same way they do.