the biggest difference between a believer and a non-believer - ignorance?
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
Canada
January 9, 2008 3:40pm CST
If a race of advanced aliens were to come to earth (in peace), and they were found to be, lets say, Christian with a bible similar to ours... 99% of atheists, would, after some questioning, turn into Christians.. (seeing that there had been no previous connection with our two races).
if, however, the same race of aliens were to come to earth but were all atheists, and laughed at this human poison known as religion, 90% of all believers would remain to be believers.
that is why the biggest difference with our two mindsets seems to be, indeed, ignorance.
6 people like this
24 responses
@urbandekay (18278)
•
10 Jan 08
Another badly argued discussion. It is irrational to change you belief because someone laughs at you.
all the best urban
4 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
21 Jan 08
"It's also irrational to hang ON to a belief because someone laughs at you. "
Err, no that doesn't follow. If one believes it is rational to remain a believer when laughed at.
Your description of the rock... doesn't fit my or many people.
all the best urban
2 people like this
@zigzagbuddha (4601)
• United States
21 Jan 08
It's also irrational to hang ON to a belief because someone laughs at you.
Neither one is an answer that will fit all criteria. You gotta look outside the box because it's all a matter of perspective.
We wake up and find ourselves spinning around on some rock slab in the middle of outer space when in fact, by all rights and appearances we should be flying off this sphere like peas out of pea shooter... it is only natural that we would want to understand what our part is in the whole scheme of things. Some people just get so desperate for something to hang on to that will keep them from facing what ever they fear (shooting off into black infinitely cold space?) that they will even make sh!t up to believe (ground themselves with, hold on to). And then so they don't have to have their very fragile hold on their sanity broken by 'non-believers' they just try to break them first.
Circles, circles.
@kundalini444 (194)
• Italy
9 Jan 08
I'm ahteist: I don't believe in God... until disproved!
A believer, instead, believes in God... ALTHOUGH disproved!
This happens because faith, unlike reason, is accepting something without evidence. So for a man of faith evidences are irrelevant; for a man of reason they are decisive.
@urbandekay (18278)
•
10 Jan 08
Here we have a clear example of ignorance from an atheist. The existence of God has not been disproved.
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@kundalini444 (194)
• Italy
10 Jan 08
Of course the existence of God has not been disproved! It can't be! As well as it can't be proved!
I should also say that the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Cosmic Teapot, the fairies, the elves, the Samoan Lizard-God, all have not been disproved.
Yet, I don't believe in such things because there is no evidence.
There are thousands of theories that cannot be disproved (i.e. whenever you don't look at things, they disappear: it is a non-falsifiable theory). This is not sufficient to make a belief legitimate.
We simply don't believe in all possible and not-disproved facts. We usually believe in proved facts, in things of which our rationality can seize evidence.
3 people like this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
10 Jan 08
it can be disproved if we have rules... we can disprove it through contradictions.
this, the christian god does well.
1 person likes this
@Sillychick (3275)
• United States
10 Jan 08
Why is it that Christians can't accept the fact that it is ok for people to believe different things? I don't go around criticizing people who believe different things than me, I don't try to convert people, I don't judge people or shake my head at them disapprovingly, and I don't feel sorry for their 'poor souls.' All people are different, all people believe different things. Accept it. Stop judging. Doesn't Christianity teach you that? But I guess it's ok to only follow some of the rules, right?
4 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
10 Jan 08
So you say; yet this is a post by an atheist intent on doing exactly what you criticise Christians as doing, - doh!
all the best urban
2 people like this
@Sillychick (3275)
• United States
10 Jan 08
Urban, I never said I was an atheist. I also am not doing what I am saying Christians do. What I said was many Christians judge others based on their beliefs and can't accept that people may believe different things. I respect the fact that all people have their own beliefs and feel they should have the right to believe what they believe in peace without being called ignorant.
3 people like this
@chooochy (356)
•
11 Jan 08
i think the only ignorance here is the ignorance you show by assuming 99% of atheists would turn into christians, to me this states that you have a severe lack of knowledge of other peoples beliefs and should consider this fact before posting such a discussion topic!
3 people like this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
11 Jan 08
atheism is not a belief, im an atheist, its not a religion, its a logical position, therefor, i think i can stake a position that athiests would take.
your assuming atheism is a religion and im telling what others would believe, that is not the case.
1 person likes this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
12 Jan 08
? okay, but im speaking for atheism...
1 person likes this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
11 Jan 08
why is it that you think this way? the i posted this up for two reasons...
to see if any atheists would NOT convert and to see if any religious people WOULD convert and see the comparison between those who wouldnt change their views at all..
it has nothing to do with what you are claiming.
1 person likes this
@johndur (3052)
• Pasig, Philippines
10 Jan 08
i dont think so.you see,how can somebody be ignorant in something he see and heard from a lot of people?dont you know that gos is an advance alien living in the heavens?then since now that you know it i guess one atheist should become a beliver.since GOD is an advance alien and has the words of the bible i think what youare waiting has been in effect for a long time already and you havent noticed it because you have closed your mind into believing him.
4 people like this
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
10 Jan 08
"99% of atheists, would, after some questioning, turn into Christians"
what makes you say that?? I'm neither atheist nor Christian but regardless i wouldnt change my beliefs anyway...
In all honesty we're ALL believers....We ALL believe in SOMETHING
2 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
18 Jan 08
Well, it's there laid out nice and plain for you, if you don't see it then there is nothing anyone can do to help you.
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
10 Jan 08
speak this only if you were an atheist... agnostics have no say in anything.
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
10 Jan 08
response to an atheist..
this is an advanced alien species, they have evolved past our views and their science is incomprehensible.
if they believed in X religion, logically, i am, and will be forced to accept these principles. why? because, they are of a higher species. they can understand quantum physics while i can only measure it.
if you were to, lets say, debate, with these guys, you could not process their sort of thinking... and even if you could, rebuttles to their logic would be extremly hard as they are obviously more advanced. to reject their logic would be, in short, ignorant.
and lets say, that they are not the only aliens, but they are the most advanced of all atheists... everyone would be subject to their ideas.
@nuffsed (1271)
•
10 Jan 08
That's an amusing theory, that SEEMS to make the point nicely. But I have to say that no amount of alien influence could induce me to consider that a supreme being created all this and that The Bible has anything to do with the history of Earth or the future of man.
That ALL the aliens held the same belief, would immediately make them suspect!
2 people like this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
10 Jan 08
assuming that you are... and you are not a pantheist of any sort.. this is what i will say..
this is an advanced alien species, they have evolved past our views and their science is incomprehensible.
if they believed in X religion, logically, i am, and will be forced to accept these principles. why? because, they are of a higher species. they can understand quantum physics while i can only measure it.
if you were to, lets say, debate, with these guys, you could not process their sort of thinking... and even if you could, rebuttles to their logic would be extremly hard as they are obviously more advanced. to reject their logic would be, in short, ignorant.
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
10 Jan 08
and lets say, that they are not the only aliens, but they are the most advanced of all atheists... everyone would be subject to their ideas... so it does not need that ALL aliens beed to believe in the same thing, it has to do with most advanced species.
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
12 Jan 08
No, believing or not believing has very little to do with knowledge, it has to do with feelings too. atheists are just as smart or ignorant as believers.Religion should be a combination of feelings and religious knowledge.If Atheists got the proof they needed to "believe" in a higher power, some would Still be Atheists. And if there were proof there isn't a G-d, there would still be people who believe. Knowledge is just part of it.
3 people like this
@Springlady (3986)
• United States
10 Jan 08
The biggest difference between a believer and an unbeliever is that the believer in Jesus Christ is saved and the unbeliever is not.
The believer has hope, abundant life, joy, peace, contentment and Eternal Life.
God bless:)
2 people like this
@zigzagbuddha (4601)
• United States
21 Jan 08
Saved from lusty devils like yourself dickus. And from 7ft demons like me. They're also saved from themselves... and personally I have given up the project of trying to save people from themselves.
2 people like this
@zigzagbuddha (4601)
• United States
22 Jan 08
I have news for you Springlady. You have been brainwashed and deluded into believing pure fiction. But don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with fiction, that's not what I'm saying. I mean, please, I believe in fairies!
What I am saying is that the only thing that's really important is what motivates your action? Is it love or fear?
Personally, I don't believe in fairies because I'm afraid that if I don't I will be punished. I don't believe in fairies out of the hope that they will save me from the dreaded evil sinner that is myself. I don't sacrifice my life to the fairies in exchange for the 'better one' they're offering in return (fairies are notorious tricksters!)
I believe in fairies because I want to; because believing in fairies makes me smile, it makes my heart sing, and connects me with spirit and nature. Not only that but it's exhilaratingly fun to look for them out of the corner of my eye when I go into the forest. You on the other hand.... well, it seems to me that YOU are the one who is in fact slave to the dark master!
There is a bit of truth in all things Springlady, you only need to look for it, but if you're not looking for it, trust me, you are not going to find it, I don't care what bible you thump.
2 people like this
@zigzagbuddha (4601)
• United States
23 Jan 08
She does sound rather robotic in her responses and comments. Makes me wonder if anybody's really at home there.
Actually, I thought she was somebody else, what with my "pot-saturated brain" and all (god, I love quoting you on that!)If I had realized my error I probably wouldn't have posted the above, but I'm glad I did because I had a whole lotta fun writing it.
And I don't bother trying to teach pigs to sing... I think the snorting and snuffling and oinking sounds are just fine noises for a pig to make, it suits them. I teach myself how to sing.
2 people like this
@AD11RGUY (1265)
• United States
10 Jan 08
What if advanced aliens came here not in peace and were found to be Christian? What if their interpretation was different from that of the Earth Christians and they forced it upon the Earthlings in the same manner as that of the Inquisition? What if the peaceful aliens were Jewsish or Buddhist? Your attempt at providing an argument for Christianity is very pooorly presented here. As for your remark about ignorance, I would have to say that those who still believe the same in spite of factual evidence presented to the contrary, would be the only ignorant ones here.
2 people like this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
10 Jan 08
response to an atheist: assuming that you are... and you are not a pantheist of any sort.. this is what i will say..
this is an advanced alien species, they have evolved past our views and their science is incomprehensible.
if they believed in X religion, logically, i am, and will be forced to accept these principles. why? because, they are of a higher species. they can understand quantum physics while i can only measure it.
if you were to, lets say, debate, with these guys, you could not process their sort of thinking... and even if you could, rebuttles to their logic would be extremly hard as they are obviously more advanced. to reject their logic would be, in short, ignorant.
and lets say, that they are not the only aliens, but they are the most advanced of all atheists... everyone would be subject to their ideas... so it does not need that ALL aliens beed to believe in the same thing, it has to do with most advanced species.
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
11 Jan 08
a differnt SPECIES man.. they would have a different moral code and everything
@AD11RGUY (1265)
• United States
11 Jan 08
I can't follow with your reasoning here. Say for instance you meet Jack Roush. Any and everything you know about cars and anything related to them, would be infinitesimal small in comparison to his knowledge of them. Most of it, if not all, would be incomprehensible to you. And because he is a peaceful man with ideas way beyond the ordinary, he would qualify as one of status equal to these aliens. So you're telling me, that because he is WAY smarter than you or I about the application of physics in a particular realm, that you would believe whatever he personally believes about life and the universe spiritually? Just because he's way smarter? What happened to your faith remaining the same? Where is your dedication to what YOU believe in? Simply washed away in the presence of someone who is academically superior to you. Doesn't sound like much of a Christian to me. I for one would respect his personal views of such, but remain the Christian that I am. That would be keeping one's faith. I see yours is subject to change depending on how much you feel inferior to another being. Sad.
3 people like this
@MommaOfAllTrades (969)
• Canada
10 Jan 08
You know 93% of statistics are made up on the spot?
3 people like this
@zigzagbuddha (4601)
• United States
21 Jan 08
We ARE the race of advanced bible thumping aliens. Well, not me... I am a mutated accident of light projected onto this holographic universe by intention. I didn't come in peace either... I came in a passionate moment.
2 people like this
@zigzagbuddha (4601)
• United States
21 Jan 08
I love how you sneak by when the lights are out dickus, and leave flowers and poetry on my doorstep. Who would have thought you were such a shy boy?
1 person likes this
@kundalini444 (194)
• Italy
10 Jan 08
Let's try to explain what fightingistheonlyway says:
If aliens' religion turned out to be christianism then this would be the proof that christianism cannot be something that men on the earth just invented. That god should really exists having been capable of communicating his word to both worlds.
In this sense, most atheist could take this as an EVIDENCE for the religion to be true.
2 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
10 Jan 08
Except we have a clear counterfactual to that claim in the athiests here that say they wouldn't convert
all the best urban
3 people like this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
10 Jan 08
there are no atheists here that said they wouldnt convert... and i would love to debate them.
2 people like this
@kundalini444 (194)
• Italy
10 Jan 08
I am an atheist, and (as said above) I would take the aliens' christianity as an evidence pro religion's truth. That would make me think I'm wrong, so, yes I would convert to that religion. I would have a very good evidence to do so!
As said before, I believe there is no god until there will be evidence of the contrary (if there will).
But I suspect that believers will still be belivers aftere there will be evidence of the contrary (if there will)!
4 people like this
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
15 Jan 08
Your supposition may well have some truth. It would raise some interesting problems with our Scripture, though, which makes no mention of any race other than our own. If, indeed, there were a race of aliens who had a belief system which held that one of their number was God born to live amongst them as a man and was killed but rose again and ascended into heaven, then it would mean that Jesus was not the only Son of God! I don't think that would carry any more weight with atheists than it would with the blinkered so-called Christians.
Ignorance is not the lack of knowledge. It means a state where one chooses to ignore some or all of the knowledge one is offered. The biggest difference between a 'believer' and a 'non-believer' is faith. Sometimes that faith can be ignorant!
1 person likes this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
15 Jan 08
first, i would say that atheism is logically valid.. by human logic that is.
second, its not a matter of tech, its a matter of species. human beings cannot understand quantum physics, we cannot perceive more than 4 dimensions.. however, we are able to use it in practice... we are able to measure it. so, if this race could actually understand this stuff, they would be gods compared to us...
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
15 Jan 08
well, the point is, atheists would see this as some sort of message.. how would another race light years away have the same religion? did jesus die here and go and die there too? did god have a son on many planets?
and its not just christianity.. its islam, or whatever....
if there was a religion similar to ours, it would be pretty amazing.. and my assumption is that many atheists would turn to faith, especially if its like a super powerful advanced flying soucer species of aliens lol.
on the other hand, if they laughed at the concept of god and said they got rid of religon thousands of years ago.. religious people would most likely stay religious.. they dont care if their beliefs are ridiculas.
what they dont realize is that, to a nonbeliever, scientology is the same as christianity.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
15 Jan 08
I just don't understand why you would expect people to abandon their religion based on the idea that another species does not believe in a god. The is neither proof, nor evidence that atheism is correct. It does nothing to show that religion is ridiculous. In order to disprove the belief in God, these aliens would have to show indisputable proof that the world was not created by god. Perhaps if they had the power to craft a new earth in a few days that would be enough to convince Christians that the Christian god is false.
Barring that, Christians and other religious folks have no reason to change their beliefs. That's like if we discovered some people living under the polar ice cap in Antarctica who had no concept of gods or religion. Would they be obligated to abandon their faith just because the people with technology to travel all over the planet, and well into the solar system are Christians? Would they be ignorant if they continued to believe there was no god?
2 people like this
@bunmi2501 (465)
• Nigeria
22 Jan 08
it like an endless argument, but one thing we should consider in all these things is that God can not be mocked, if you really believe in Him, He will give you wisdom, understanding and knowledge. This why paul prayed for the Ephsian church that God would grant them the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him Eph 1:17-18. This is because a man cannot know things by himself, he has to be taught. So the issue is not really ignorance in that regard, it is the willingness to know God. So if any one can open up himself to God, I believe he will reveal Himself to the person
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
15 Jan 08
I think you really outdid yourself with the level of ignorance you've shown and the assumptions you've made.
To start, nonsensical hypothetical situations like the one you've described are completely retarded and NEVER take sufficient variables into consideration to make anything resembling an accurate conclusion. Your numbers are of course made up and absolutely meaningless so I won't discuss them in specifics.
Aliens have a bible similar to ours and believe in Christianity, similar to our own beliefs. How similar must this bible be to convince an Atheist? You've already said that if one human has a belly button and another does not then one of them was not created in the image of god. I can only assume this bible must be verbatim to pass your scrutiny. If it were identical to our own bible, wouldn't that bring a true atheist to doubt it even further? Wouldn't atheists believe that these aliens were bribed by our governments, or otherwise coerced into claiming they worship the Christian god? I've never seen an atheist that would even begin to consider the existence of god. Most consider themselves better than other people because they don't believe in any god. Frankly, if atheist were so eager to give up on the beliefs they've held their entire lives, I would really lose alot of respect for them.
Let's move on to the atheistic aliens. How is that any different than anyone else who is an atheist? You seem to think that if they possess better technology then their religious beliefs,or lack thereof, must be correct. If some guy produces a car that runs off salt water, will you then believe any religion he promotes? Would you believe in whatever a great quantum physicist believes in? There are religious scholars in this world, but they can still do nothing to prove or disprove a religion, so why would an alien be any different?
2 people like this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
15 Jan 08
despite your attacks i decided to respond to you anyway.. i really dont care if i hurt peoples feelings and i dont care if people try to hurt mine.
see, it doesnt matter if the religion itself is illogical. thats why its faith, there is no science reason or logic behind it..
now, if an amazingly advanced alien species.. mind you that every SPECIES has a differnt moral theory... we would be inclined to learn all we can from them, and some of this stuff, we would have no clue what it is because we cant understand it.. we can, however, still use the practice without the theory.
in real life, its all about understanding theory then applying it.. but if an alien species arives, we cant understand the theory but we can still apply it..
all this points to the fact that we really cannot understand all this religious mumbo jumbo.
and to the idea that you would loose respect to atheists loosing their beliefs.. their beliefs are not based on faith.. if they saw jesus in front of them, and could prove that it was not an illusion of sorts, they would believe..
on the other hand, it doesnt matter how much proof you show a believer, they would still make an excuse for god..
you might want to check out my answer belw as well.
@catskisses (434)
• United States
10 Jan 08
I question where you got these 'facts'.. I for one will not change my faith path simply because some being from another place or planet believes in a particular way.. I have no reason to think that they would be any more intelligent than we in such things..
I also think that often some religions teach that the only reason all do not believe as they do is 'ignorance'.. the definiton of 'ignorance' given by the Mirriam-Webster dictionary is: lack of knowledge, education or awareness... especially in the case of Christianity such may have been the case for many in the past, but in today's world of tv, radio, general literacy and availability of the printed Holy Bible, few in modern countries are 'ignorant' of the teachings of that faith..
the biggest difference between believers and non-believers is a choice to follow Christianity or not.. to deem all non-believers as 'ignorant' is insulting, and only serves to support the ideas of Christians being egocentric and self-aggrandizing..
I am not a Christian, not because I have not been exposed to the faith.. I was raised as a Baptist and have studied theology both formally and informally for over 30 years.. I am not 'ignorant' of the teachings of the prophets and of the Christ.. I CHOOSE in my knowledge to belong to a different entity.. just as true Christans are 'called' to their faith, I am called to a different path.. it is far more likely that most Christans are 'ignorant' of my faith than I am of theirs, as most have little real knowledge of the beliefs of any religion other than their own.
2 people like this
@adnanezzi (243)
• India
10 Jan 08
how can term it ignorence
if they can proof that like u say that there is nothing like god or something like that then it is debatable.
the biggest between a believer and a non-believer then is not ignorence but faith
2 people like this
@edgedbgold (48)
• United States
10 Jan 08
Your discussion is based on a lot o hypothetical personnal beleifs. It's skewed and shows a narrow mind set.
1 person likes this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
10 Jan 08
i have changed my views enough not to be in this narrow mindset which you, narrowmindedly, accuse me of.
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
11 Jan 08
yea, sure this is all hypothesis, im just seeing if this is what would happen
@edgedbgold (48)
• United States
10 Jan 08
Hey I wasn't trying to offend you and narrowminded was probably a stronger word choice than my feelings on the subject. You are talking to the ultimate pluralist who is very diverse and aware, and my views were based also on personnal beleifs ,and without a basis of your views concerning faith I guess any religious discussion is based on the hypothetical.
