Who is the real Jesus Christ?
By Pose123
@Pose123 (21635)
Canada
January 30, 2008 7:12pm CST
That the Jesus Christ of the gospels is a very compassionate man, most people would agree, He fed the hungry, healed the sick and comforted those who mourned. He said to the woman who had committed adultery, and whom the people of the day wanted to stone, "neither do I condemn you". He even forgave those who killed him. The problem is that isn't the Jesus Christ that I hear preached today. I don't hear much about love, I hear about condemnation and judgement. I hear of a God who is going to send millions of people to burn in the flames of hell, and forget that they ever existed, because they chose to believe the wrong way. How did Jesus Change? Why did he change? Was the Jesus Christ of the gospels real, or was he just pretending to be kind and compassionate? Why do many Christians seem to relish the idea that certain people will go to hell? We have been told that God does not change, yet most Christians believe that Jesus is God. The God of the old testament and the God of Revelations have nothing in common with the God expressed through Jesus Christ in the gospels. Who then is the real Jesus?
4 people like this
10 responses
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
31 Jan 08
The problem is that the Jesus that lived 2000 years ago was a Jewish Rabbi living by the laws of the Torah. As time has gone on, the christian church has pulled further and further away from the teachings of the Torah because if they stay with them it will contradict their christian testament. They have twisted the words of the Torah to make their testament work. So now they have had to make their idea of Jesus different, to fit their newer ideas too.
Dante basically helped the Church change it's concept of Hell into the awesome fire and brimstone Hell it is today. Now that the present Pope has spoken from The Chair and said that Hell is in fact a physical place he has once again re~enforced this fire and brimstone belief.
This brings us back to the present day Jesus figure. It is all wrapped around this judgement day business. The Jesus is now the one who is going to come down and judge the souls of everyone instead of G'd. So he is going to be full of wrath against all the evil that has been committed against him etc.
It is a bizarre turn around for someone who was supposed to have said suffer the little children to come unto me. In other words everyone was to be childlike and they were to let him lead them. And his suffering would save them all no matter what. It is an interesting turn around for a large number of folks. Maybe they are afraid that heaven is going to be too full.
As I stated at the beginning, Jesus was a Rabbi. Simply that.
Shalom~Adoniah
3 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
6 Feb 08
I'm surprised to hear you making such a tendentious claim here. Was Jesus a Rabbi, in as far as Rabbi means teacher then yes he was but he certainly was not accepted as such by the powers that be. Did he claim to be more, certainly he would not have been tried for blaspheme for claiming only to be a Rabbi. Did Jesus follow the Torah, certainly he followed the spirit of it, indeed isn't part of his message that it is more important to authentically follow the spirit of teachings than be a pedant about the letter of the Law? Is Jesus the Messiah, many Jews believed so, even some that denied his divinity. Has the Church corrupted the message, yes of course, the Church is composed of humans, so of course it will corrupt the message.
The holy dove
She will be caught again
bought and sold
and bought again
the dove is never free.
There can be no denying that the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are to blame for a lot of the corruption. Jesus makes it clear he intends his followers to live as Brothers (And sisters) and to be as a Church as such. He expressly forbids having Rabbis or calling anyone father or master.
But the Early Church sold out, played the power game. The Catholic Church allowed Thomas Aquinas to mix Aristoteleanism with Christianity to the detriment of both. And to justify the Pope's hubris concocted the myth that Peter lead the Church after the ascension of Jesus, that Jesus had no siblings, that Mary was also born of a Virgin, and many over innovations that run counter to scripture, including confession to a Priest.
Would the Real JC please stand up
please stand up
please stand up
Just read the Gospels, Mark first it is the oldest, pray first for understanding. Miraculously the person of Jesus shines down through the centuries. Be cautious of anything written by Paul. Read James the Just.
all the best urban
@headhunter525 (3548)
• India
31 Jan 08
I think as hell is a place chosen by an individuals. God certainly does not want to send people to hell. If God is a God who enjoys sending people to hell then such God is not real God. The God revealed in the person of Christ does not want even a single person to be in hell.
I just don't see disjointed idea of God throughout the Bible. Whether there is a literal hell or not is a question of debate among Christians. But the question of justice being delivered at the Judgement Day is important. And it is this Jesus who will pronounce the judgement, and put the world to right.
Should I not expect the murderer of my grandfather to be judged? If murderers are not judged then justice is not given to the victims. Should I expect Mother Teresa and Hitler to be treated equally? Of course not.
2 people like this
@headhunter525 (3548)
• India
1 Feb 08
I believe he would do right. And I think you do think likewise. Blessings!
1 person likes this
@humbleme (1004)
• India
31 Jan 08
Hello Pose 123, If there is no fear of hell then let all of us become dishonest,criminals, to fullfill our human lust and our world will be a better place as you are sure Jesus will forgive us all and take us all upwards to heaven after we die.I understand only one Jesus one Allah one Krishna etc lords who are positive,has preached love,peace and humanity and absolutely against all evils .Thanks.
2 people like this
@g_lahcim (9)
• Philippines
31 Jan 08
Jesus Christ: The only-begotten Son of God, the only Son produced by Jehovah alone. This Son is the first born of all creation. By means of him all other things in heaven and on earth were created. He is the second-greatest personage in the universe. It is this Son whom Jehovah sent to the earth to give his life as a ransom for mankind, thus opening the way to eternal life for those of Adam's offspring who would exercise faith. This same Son, restored to heavenly glory, now rules as King, with authority to destroy all the wicked and to carry out his Father's original purpose for the earth. The Hebrew form of the name JESUS means "Jehovah Is Salvation"; CHRIST is the equivalent of the Hebrew MA-SHI'ACH (Messiah), meaning "Anointed One."
As a Christian, do you believe what the Bible really teach?
1 person likes this
@g_lahcim (9)
• Philippines
1 Feb 08
Why you say so, that I make God sounds like a terrible person? Is it because I say earlier that He gave Jesus the authority to destroy wicked ones? That is in fact good news that we Jehovah's Witnesses brought to all people of all nations.
Psalms 37:9-11,29 For evildoers themselves will be cut off, But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth. 10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more, And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. 29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.
Isn't it good news that the removal of evildoers results peace worldwide?When we preached we met many people who feel the same as you do about the Bible, but I am happy to share why we as Jehovah's Witnesses been convinced that the Bible is indeed God's word. These are just few reasons.
It's the only book that tells us the truth about God, who he is and what are his standards. It explains how to cope with problems and how to find true happiness. Psalms 1:1-3
The Bible alone tells us what we must do to please God. Isaiah 48:17,18
The Bible was written by some 40 different men over a period of 1,600 years, beginning in 1513 B.C.E. It is made up of 66 little books. Those who wrote the Bible were inspired by God. They wrote his thoughts not their own. So God in heaven, not any human on earth, is the Author of the Bible.
2Timothy 3:16,17 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
2Peter 1:20,21 For know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man's will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.
God made sure that the Bible was accurately copied and preserved. More Bibles have been printed than any other book.
Why not sincerely examine your own Bible first?
@g_lahcim (9)
• Philippines
1 Feb 08
How can a person love Jehovah if he is also to fear him?
The Bible tells us that we should both love Jehovah and fear him.
Luke 10:27
1Peter 2:17
Proverbs 1:7; 2:1-5; 16:6
Wholesome fear of God will make us very careful to avoid incurring his displeasure. Our love for Jehovah will move us to want to do the things that are pleasing to him, to express our appreciation for the countless expressions of his love and undeserved kindness.
Can u differentiate morbid fear from wholesome fear?
@g_lahcim (9)
• Philippines
31 Jan 08
Is Jesus Christ actually God?
John 17:3 RS(Revised Standard Version, Second Edition(1971)
"[Jesus prayed to his Father:] This is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God
["who alone art truly God," NE(The New English Bible(1970)], and Jesus thou hast sent."
Notice that Jesus referred not to himself but to his Father in heaven as "the only true God."
John 20:17, RS:" Jesus said to her [Mary Magdalene],'Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" (So to the resurrected Jesus, the Father was God, just as the Father was God to Mary Magdalene .
Interestingly, not once in the Scripture do we find the Father addressing the Son as "my God."
1 person likes this
@SONIA12MAN (238)
• United States
19 Mar 08
What church do you go to? because I really wonder about that I have heard in my church all the life history of Jesus and they do spend all the time encouraging people to copy his example and they encourage people to love each other. Christians don't believe that Jesus is the God. The believe that Jesus is the Song of the one and Only true God Who is Who was and Who is to come. In the old testament. people spoke of Jesus because it was reveled to them of whom he is. the great prophets said he was coming. God in the Old testament often had sent his angle and that angel is St. Michael . There is no Question about Who is the real Jesus there is just a question of How well do you understand what you are reading. in the old testament God said his name is Emmanuel. and even so Jesus came and most people did not really admitted it is him because he was born in the low class but they had expected some one greater and from a wealth well known family. IT IS VERY TRUE THAT Jesus talked about good but he also told us to be careful not to fall in to the hands of evil we have to know that evil does exist and that we can get trap in it without know. he said that. and he said if you have sheep and one of them go missing won't you go looking for it.? which means that if one of us get lost he will always try to get us out of it but we on our part must be very careful.
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
20 Mar 08
Hi SONIA12MAN, Many Christians do believe that Jesus is God, and I have no problem with someone believing that. Three persons in one God is a very old belief. The things that I mentioned in my post, I heard talked about by many fundamentalist Christians and TV evangelists. I know there are many good Christians in all churches who do show love and compassion for others, and I admire and respect these people. Most of what is in the old testament is myth, stories passed down by word of mouth for generations. I like the Psalms very much and there is some other other good works there as well. As for the New Testament, the gospels and the book of James are my favourites. Revelations should have been left out of the Bible altogether. I'm sure you know that the Bible wasn't put together until almost six hundred years after Christ, and the books to be included were decided by the leaders of the church at that time. There were a great many writings left out, because it didn't agree with the agenda of the church. The greatest teachings are in the sermon on the mount, and I think all Christians should read it at least once every week. If you do this and try to follow it's teachings you will do fine, the church you attend doesn't matter. Blessings.
@SONIA12MAN (238)
• United States
20 Mar 08
TV guys I don't watch church over tv because I consider them scram for money . A lot of these people have no bases they think they understand the bible but they really don't and they are dragging others in to it. If some one offers me a billion I will not watch those guys at channel 14 talking on the mike. a true Christian knows that there is God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit. now God the father is the one who is always in the bible and they always say he sent his spirit . it was his spirit that came down upon the son and it was this same spirit that lead Elijah in a chariot of fire and it was his spirit that gave Jacob strength. the Bible says there is only one God and his name is I'm who am. check it out when God gave Moses his name. tell them I'm Who am. that is God the Father talking though the Holly Spirit which is his spirit and he makes it clear there that He's the beginning and the end. so there should be no wonder who is the real God. in time messengers have all said that Jesus is the son of God. and that he's his only son. NO son can become the father while the father lives so it is but he can become his father best friend. and through the Holly spirit Jesus is one with His father because His father's spirit has united them together to think alike to see thing s in the same way. and it is like us if we get married we want to love and think things together that is because we have become one person through love.
If you want to be in your faith and truth in God I don't think it is through watching church on TV. it is miss leading all the time. It is like today most people now say abortion is good in those days they were like Jesus aint' God's son because he was born right next to us. but the truth is that he's and his power is unbreakable. and these people all tried to test him but found that they are all stupid. just like Our generation that kills children and says it is acceptable.. I like the PLASM TOO. they are songs of praises they are songs. but very wise saying from the great prophets and it is their songs of joy that hav e been written down.
@mamasan34 (6518)
• United States
31 Jan 08
I haven't really experienced this judgmental Jesus Christ. Christ is the son of God. He was sent to deliver God's message, so in essence he is jsut the messenger, God is who will provide solace in heaven or an eternity in hell. God is both loving and wrathful. He is like any parent just on a larger scale. If you don't abide by your parents rules, you have to deal with the consequences right? So is the the same with God. that's the easiest way I can put it. He gave us the rules and standards to live by, if you choose not to live by them, then you will face his wrath at the end of times. I don't think Jesus changed. Jesus was a compassionate man, but he was only sent her to deliver his father's message. He can't condemn you, only God, our father can do that.
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
31 Jan 08
Hi mamasan, Thank you for your very interesting comments on this. If God is going to condemn people to hell for eternity, he is not as compassionate as his son. When you talk of a wrathful God, you are making Christianity a religion of fear rather then of love. Also I don't know of any parent who would inflict such punishment upon their children. Blessings.
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
2 Feb 08
I really appreciate your 'perspective' on this Pose123. I agree that the basic message that Jesus delivered was that all the previous commandments were included in the message he delivered about love, peace, forgiveness, not casting stones at others, respecting differences, assisting the less fortunate...yes..."Treating others the way we'd like to be treated."
In my view the Jesus that people put forth as the ONLY way to heaven and God is an insult to the teachings he orginally put forth. The Jesus that supposedly condemns all who do not follow Christian doctrine is not the one who delivered message of love, hope and peace. To me the judgmental Jesus is a hollow man-made icon that all too many organized religions have created to serve their own purposes.
Good discussion material...one that many may not like to hear about...but I appreciate your willingness to open the floor on an important topic. We need so much more love and co-operation in our troubled world than we have right now. Any message that puts a spiritual leader in any category that is anything less than loving, honoring and compassionate is not a leader I will ever follow. Nor is one who will kill and condemn "in the name of God." The God I know and love is a Being of Pure Light...and love...and if we were all to emulate those qualities there would be enough love to resolve all our human rights issues.
Just my perspective of course!
Raia
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
2 Feb 08
Hi perspectives, Thank you for your comments. I know that this upsets some people and it's because they know that it's true. I know that faith can be a great sense of comfort for people, and it's not my intention to try to take that away, however all true faith must be built on love and not fear. Blessings.
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
7 Feb 08
Boy are we on the same page with that view! Fear based thinking is something that rules too many people's live and eclipses their joy.
I agree that love was at the root of who Jesus was and what he taught...as was respect for differences and non-judgment. Whether it is a popular reminder or not...I am glad you opened this up for discussion...thanks again!
Raia
@g_lahcim (9)
• Philippines
31 Jan 08
Is Jehovah in the "Old Testament" Jesus Christ in the "New Testament?
Matthew 4:10: NW(New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, 1984 edition)
"Jesus said to him:'Go away, Satan! For it is written, "It is Jehovah
["the Lord," KJ(King James Version,[1611; as printed in 1942]and others)
your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."
Jesus was obviously not saying that he himself was to be worshiped.
John 8:54 "Jesus answered [the Jews]: If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, he who you say is your God."
The Hebrew Scriptures clearly identify Jehovah as the God that the Jews professed to worship. Jesus said, not that he himself was Jehovah, but that Jehovah was his Father. Jesus here made it very clear that he and his Father were distinct individuals.
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