Reincarnation... How does it work?
By Aussies2007
@Aussies2007 (5336)
Australia
March 2, 2008 9:47am CST
OK... I am reading about it and I see that like with religion... there are about 5 different groups with different ideas on how it works.
But that's not what I want to talk about.
I want to apply my logic to this...
Lets say for argument sake... that we do indeed reincarnate.
1) Is every new born a reincarnation?
If so... we would have a birth for each death... and we know that this is not the case as our population did double in the last 40 years.
2) In order for the population to double... you need at least two births for each death over a period of time.
So... how is it decided which of the two new born will receive the soul of a dead person?
As a parent... does it not offend you to know that the soul of a total stranger has invaded the body of your new born child?
This reminds me of science fiction where Aliens steal the bodies of humans to blend in the population. lol
I think reincarnation would be the worse of punishment.
Imagines Bill Gates being reincarnated as a child in a starving third world country in Africa... Does make you think... Does it not?
I wonder if Bill Gates would grab a computer and program his way out of there... lol
And this is not so silly... because the biggest grow in population over the last 40 years has been Africa and Asia. So more than half of us Westerners will end up in Africa and Asia. Something to look forward I guess. A new experience.
So what are your thoughts on this?
Not so much on reincarnation... but on my logic...
6 people like this
6 responses
@maekhamin (87)
• United States
3 Mar 08
why do you have to assume that reincarnation has to be from another human and it has to be from one other person?
i mean when you die all parts that makes up your consciousness would disperse in nature and become parts of nature. so your consciousness would disperse into nature too. becoming part of another consciousness. and same thing with your consciousness too, it is part of the nature, it just so happen you have the memory. when you're reborn you wouldnt have the memory, simple and easy.
4 people like this
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
3 Mar 08
Somehow... I don't see how "consciousness" is part of nature. That would actually be the only thing that is not part of nature.
If it was... it would prevent us from destroying nature. Nature has no power on our thinking. It can only punish us after we have hurt nature.
3 people like this
@maekhamin (87)
• United States
3 Mar 08
that's where most of people are wrong. your consciousness is part of the nature's big consciousness.
imagine it like this, if every single cells in your body has consciousness would they be aware of the higher consciousness that is you? and if that is true many people still have cancer. so what's the difference between us and cancer? i mean we are the cancer that's killing the earth.
also we all are made from different thing, atoms, they react in a certain way. now if you accept the fact that your consciousness is merely a chain of chemical reactions then wouldnt you be a a part of a bigger chemical reaction? because you cannot exist alone in this universe, therefore there's a link between chain A and chain B, chain B and chain C, etc. and those chains belong in a bigger set of chain that makes up this universe.
4 people like this
@maekhamin (87)
• United States
3 Mar 08
what makes you think that you think? isnt thinking also a chemical reaction? so by that token you can say that you are chemical reaction. and since the earth is also going through chemical reaction, who are you to say that the earth, or even the universe, doesnt have a consciousness? how do you know that you actually make the decision and able to think when everything you do and think is based on chemical reaction that is completely predictable, although complex?
so where is your consciousness? is it based on the fact that you can make choice although the choice itself is completely predictable if you look at the brain chemistry?
3 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
3 Mar 08
I have believed in reincarnation ever since I could remember, even long before I really understood the principles, and I believe I'm a "very old soul" First of all as far as the population thing that you bring up...uh, like who says we have to incarnate just here on this Earth? Being the science nerd, and have studied astronomy I most definitely believe there is intelligent life forms "out there"--it would be very smug of us to think that our "intelligent" human species (though I sometimes really question if we really are so intelligent after all) is the only form of intelligence in that big, vast universe
From my understanding of reincarnation....it is a spiraling affect...with each new incarnation we learn another lesson to overcome and experience...from one book I read we actually while in the "spirit/soul" state waiting to incarnate choose the situation we are to be next born into, the parents we will have, the situation/lifestyle we have..everything...I once joked though, that if that is the case, if they have bars up in the "other realm or world" I must have been drunk to choose the life I've had (so far at least..LOL)
You bring up a good analogy with Bill Gates though...if he does in fact reincarnate into a situation where his soul finds himself incarnated as a starving, poor person in his next lifetime, maybe it means he needs to learn the lesson of humility to counterbalance his life now as a billionaire
As for the idea you mention about "As a parent...does it not offend you to know that the soul of a total stranger has invaded the body of your new born child?.." Not necessarily a stranger...almost everyone we have known in our present lives we have known somewhere along the line in our past lives...but roles may be reversed or changed..perhaps in one life your were a parent to your child....in another lifetime it might turn our that your child will be your parent or even a sibling
And that concludes Reincarnation Lesson 101 folks..LOL
4 people like this
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
3 Mar 08
That is all very well... and I'll accept your point of view...
But I can see the same contradiction developing amongst answers...
1) While we are in the spirit world... we know who we are... who we have been in the past... and can choose who we will be next.
2) "I must have been drunk to choose the life I've had"
Indeed! Why would we do such a thing? You don't have to be poor to learn about poverty. You only need to be enlightned. Bill Gates understand about poverty and has donated vast amount of money to Africa.
3) If we know everything we need to know while we are in the spirit world... why do we need to comeback?
The biggest contradiction is the "Choose who you want to be when you comeback".
It implies that you already know...
So maybe... despite knowing... you want to experience it... That make sense...
But... if you forget everything once you comeback...
What is there to prevent you making the same mistakes again? Nothing!
And let's not forget this...
Children becomes what their parents are...
They have no control over this...
I saw it so many times...
Children hating their parents...
By the time they turn 40 or 50... they are their parents.
It is what we have learned in the past which make us able to go on and become smarter. If you forget everything you have learned... coming back defeat the purpose.
Finally... a great piece of logic...
If the purpose of coming back is to make us better human beings through learning...
The world would not be what it is today...
We would have a world full of smart people doing the right thing.
And if you tell me that we do all this to simply be perfect in the spirit world... I'll have to ask... For what purpose?
To move to Paradise?
What's in Paradise?
Just another type of life again?
Such a Paradise would have to be outside our physical Universe...
Do you realise the enormity of it all?
I think humans have a vivid imagination... beyond the realms of the sense.
5 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
3 Mar 08
Okay let me pick things apart here...Okay as for the comment I made, "I must have been drunk to choose the life I've had" Granted my life so far (and thinking positve about this as who knows, my life COULD turn out the way I've hoped for) still there must have been a reason, some lesson to learn and I HAD to experience what I've been through to be a better person...each life does have some lesson to learn..granted we may not understand it, especially when we are going through hellish times, but there is some reason for it...Look at it this way...if everything in our lives was handed to us on a silver platter and we got everything we desired or wanted without some turmoil in our lives, I think it's be a rather boring life...that's why so many people who are born to real, extreme wealth tend to be, well, screwballs and spoiled bratty attitudes..uh, Paris Hilton for example?
As for "forgetting everything once you comeback"--would you really want to remember your past life? Realize we probably at one time or another didn't have glorious past lives...what in a past life we were a murderer...a Marquis deSade type...would you really want to remember? Heck, what if you were Hitler in a past life...although I bet he is getting some kind of restitution in an incarnated life...
Some people when they incarnate may never have learned the lesson of their former life which maybe is why some may have to repeat a similar life to learn in their incarnation next time round --for instance if a person is downright close and narrow minded and not open to other ideas then it may take several lifetimes to "get it"
3 people like this
@vijigopi (991)
• United States
3 Mar 08
Well Aussie,
I would have to say that I have wondered over this perspective of reincarnation as it was a bit different from my perspective. But I think I finally got some answers too. I hope you would be able to understand some of my views here. I have combined my ideas with pyewacket's and I think what I have come to believe will make some sense.
1)Choosing who we want to be when we come back
To explain this I have to state my beliefs too which are as follows.
We have to experience the fruits of our actions - good and bad (I am talking about the law of karma. I hope you believe in karma or else this is going to take a long time to explain.) So, in the spirit world you actually know what karmas you need to experience. So, you choose what karmas you want to experience in the next birth where it will be that you are getting the fruits of your actions which you have to expeirience in one birth or another + you are learning your lessons too.
2)Forgetting everything when we come back
I agree with you that if you forget for what you are here, the basic point of learning the lesson itself is lost. But according to my beliefs, while the experience itself will not be remembered(It is much better this way because of all the hassles emotions make), the lesson learnt is quite alive and refreshing in the subconscious mind. I can be sure of this because even though there are a lot of things that people whom we respect ask us to believe unquestioningly, our sense of logic and justice intervenes if we don't get a just answer, which is actually our lesson learnt in our subconscious in action.
3)If the purpose of our coming back is learning lessons, the world would be such a perfect place...
Yes, you are right. But this is not so because of several reasons.
a) We have comparitively new souls coming in also.
b) Not everyone learn their lessons properly and they need to redo some of their old lessons too :-)
c) The ones who have passed the various stages have reached a stage where they no longer need reincarnate and we are just left out with the bad ones (we one amongst them).
d) There are a few of such perfect ones here in this world too who stand as the inspiration for us and an ideal to emulate.
4) We do all this to be perfect in the spirit world.. to what purpose?
This is a very difficult question to answer. To become perfect is to know what we are in essence. I believe even when we are spirits, we do not know the Divine nature of our self. It is to attain this knowledge in experience that we undergo all the other experiences in life. When we become Divine, all ego and pain is lost and we become one with the Supreme Underlying Principle. All of us want to be happy as long as we can. But we find that it does not last forever. Everyone goes through happy and painful stages in life. What we do in this life is actually a pursuit of happiness.
So, if the output of all this perfection is never ending happiness, who wouldn't want it?
2 people like this
@tigerdragon (4297)
• Philippines
2 Mar 08
ok for the sake of discussion on reincarnation, if it is true or not, which we all are not sure of. I believe that when one is reincarnated , it is to better ourselves and not to punish us just because we became a bad kid . we are given chances to make our souls a bit better.
@friendship (2084)
• Canada
8 Mar 08
Aussies2007,
Reincarnation is a gift from God. Not every soul will be awarded reincarnation. I believe that when God thinks that your mission on Earth hasn't finished yet, He will award a reincarnation. It is often that reincarnation is given because your soul needs to grow up again before reaching enlightment.
1 person likes this
@vijigopi (991)
• United States
3 Mar 08
I don't think I could understand your logic a lot because many of the basic ideas of reincarnation are missing in your argument. I would like to answer each of your questions like a question and answer session.
1) Is every new born a reincarnation?
Not necessarily.... There may new souls around too. As for population doubling over the last 40 years, you have no clue of doing the math, because of many reasons.
a) Not only humans but all other life forms as well have souls that reincarnate. While humans with their new found scienfic discovery have found out many life forms, many of them lie undiscovered, and even if they have, humans have no way of computing how many of those life forms exist, because these include every living thing in existence from worms, ants, butterflies, bees etc etc.
b) Not all souls reincarnate the minute they die. The fruits of their past deeds or their own free-will, will decide how long they stay in the spirit world.
c) The Earth is not the only living planet.
2)As a parent, does it not offend you to know that the soul of a total stranger has invaded the body of your new born child?
No, It does not offend me EVEN IF a the soul of a total stranger has invaded the body of my new born child, because that stranger is my child in this incarnation and it can only identify itself as such. Secondly, it is called my 'child' only because a soul is residing in the body - otherwise it is just the corpse of a child.
As for Bill Gates reincarnating as a child in a starving country, I believe that wouldn't be impossible because in that reincarnation he will not be Bill Gates - he will be that starving child and he has to work out a solution for the circumstances he reincarnates in.
Your argument of Eternity with cvk. I would like to discuss about that too. You said you know that the Universe will not last forever nor the Earth. Although you are in a way right, you should also have studied that it will not be destroyed forever and this is a cycle. So, I think you can safely say that after a period(however long that is)another Universe will be created and with it life forms too. Just because we have not discovered the purpose of souls incarnating doesn't mean that it cannot be right. We have to try and find that purpose. To find that purpose might be the 'purpose' we have incarnated now :-)
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
2 Mar 08
Hi Aussies, I believe that life never ends and that reincarnation is quite likely. As I understand the concept, a person does not necessarily reincarnate immediately, in fact that would be very unusual. When we pass from this life, the curtain will no longer be drawn, and we will have knowledge of all of our past lives. It would be very necessary to spent time in the spirit world between lives. Again as I understand it, we decide when we will return, as well as where and to whom. It is said that many remain in the spirit world for centuries or longer as time is of no importance. It is also possible, indeed quite probable, that there is life other planets. It also may be necessary for us to experience being rich and being poor. Very often, according to the teachings, people reincarnate in groups because those are the people that we need to work things out with, so that new baby you mentioned, would not be a complete stranger, but someone you knew was coming before the curtain was drawn for you. A new born babe is just that, a new born babe, where the spirit existed before has no baring on anything while we are here. Bill Gates could reincarnate in a staving third world country, but he would not remember being Bill Gates, so it wouldn't affect him anymore than it would any other person who had no idea who they were, or even that they were anyone before. In my own experience, I know two people who as children remembered being here before. As they got older, the memory left them. In one case I know that the parents refused to talk to the child about it, and asked others to change the subject whenever he mentioned it. Sorry for making this so long, I guess I just got carried away. Blessings.
4 people like this
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
3 Mar 08
Thank you for your reply...
You bring up similar answers than pyewacket.
See my answer to her below.
Thank you.
3 people like this