The Trinity? Does it exist?

You may want to start by reading I John Chapter 5 (the entire chapter), paying particular attention to the following verse: ..."for there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: And these three are one." (I John 5:7, KJV). Another great reference is John 1:1, which further explains who the word was. It is recommended that you read and study this entire chapter line by line and verse by verse. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (This chapter explains who the "Word" is.) I hope this helps. By the way, the word "Trinity" itself is not actually a term used in the Bible, or at least not in the original translations. But the concept exists.

Well nowhere in the bible does it say trinity but if you read it says that the Father,Son and the Holy Spirit were associated in the New Testament passage that we call the Great Commission: Go therefore and make deciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Ghost. Matthew 28:19 also it says The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. 2 Corinthians 13:14. To kind of explain it it is like the a triangle 3 separate sides but the same triangle.

Hello CherBear, The concept of the Holy Trinity is something that always seemed to bring great confusion to myself and my classmates in school. Moreover, it seemed to be something that the Nuns also seemed to struggle with, when trying to explain it to us kids. Though, in later years the concept took on clarity and illumination for me. This occurred only after much other theological study. As an aside, although I attended Catholic School through grade 12, our curriculum included Comparative World Theology throughout high school. The Nuns were committed to education, not indoctrination. As such, they were seemingly quite comfortable offering fairly in-depth studies of all of the major global religions. Anyway, it wasn't until after I was introduced to the writings of Lao Tzu and the 'Theosophists' that I began to truly understand what the Nuns were talking about with regard to the Holy Trinity. Of course, Science helped alot in this regard. Back in the late 70s, chemist and zoologist Davey Rhoades discovered that trees have the ability to communicate with each other. Science concluded that individual trees, among a collective, within a rather expansive area, were able to biologically prepare themselves for a caterpillar infestation that was making its way toward them. In doing so, they were able to reduce the possible negative effect from the infestation. In other words, they built up their tree defenses so that the caterpillars would have as little impact as possible. It was the scientific conclusion that somehow the trees who were becoming affected were able to warn the unaffected, farther off trees. This was actually big news in the world of Biology. http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF7/762.html For me, this tree communication news supported Lao Tzu's writings. As, he (or perhaps they) hypothesized that all living energy is interconnected. This rang a farmiliar bell, because it was something that the Nuns had alluded to in earlier years. This biological discovery also supported much of the wisdom of the early theosophists. I'll share a short passage from a pearl of wisdom written by Charles Fillmore in 1936, titled "Prosperity". I would urge all to seek out this little book. It is as thought provoking as any I've ever read! From page 10 of "Prosperity": "Science now postulates space rather than matter as the source of all life. It says that the very air is alive with dynamic forces that await a man's grasp and utilization and that these invisible, omnipresent energies possess potentialities far beyond our most exalted conceptions.... According to the Greek, the language in which the New Testament has come down to us, Jesus did not use the word "heaven" but the word "heavens" in His teaching. He was not telling us of the glories of some faraway place called "heaven" but was revealing the properties of the "heavens" all around us, called both "space" and "ether" by physicists. He taught not only its dynamic but also its intelligent character, and said that the entity that rules it is within man: "The kingdom of God is within you." So, if we consider The Creator as The omnipotent, uninterupted flow of energy that is the link or fiber that webs or connects all of creation together, then it becomes easier to conceptualize how three separate entities, are in fact ONE. Specifically, God the Father is the source of the ethos or energy that IS LIFE. All that is derived from that Source is inextricably linked to The Source. So, where God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are parts of The Source, they are in fact The Source. So it is with all of life. I believe that this is what Jesus meant when he said that the "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you". In this way, not only are we God's creation, we are part of God, and are able to 'drink in', and 'breath in' the infinite which is known as 'creation'. This is how I've come to understand that God is within, and all around us, and that the three distinct parts of God are in fact ONE. If I were to find myself having to explain this concept to little ones, say in a catechism class, I would use the analogy of the childrens toy kit "Legos". Each piece is distinct and separate. Yet, each is a part of the whole toy. Where certain objects can be built using some or all of the indiviudal "Legos". And, where the individual object can be disassembled into individual Legos once again, to be later reconstructed into a whole new object. I'll suggest some further reading. Although, to preface: Where Annie Besant is often referred to as a secularist, her life experience clearly demonstrates otherwise. Instead, I would offer that she was dedicated to understanding the common denominator of all religions --'The Creator'. She seemed to more deeply understand the concept of God as the energy of interconnectedness. And, dedicated her life and work to exploring and sharing this concept. Though, none can argue that she (and other Theosophists) was deemed extraordinarily dangerous by organized religions. Though, wasn't the same said of all the great teachers, most notably Jesus? While Blavatsky and Besant may have been initially deemed heretics, the latter Roman Catholic Church has since then lessened its tone. And, I suspect that Theosophy was a key influence among some of the Roman Catholic scholars who splintered away from the Roman Catholic Church to re-embrace Catholic Antioch. Some might conclude that both Theosophy and Antioch are both nothing more than an embrace of Gnosticism. Though, that is a discussion for another day. Below are some recommended links, in alphabetical order. You will find among them a link to the Catholic Encyclopedia, specifically to the writings of St. Augustine, who I believe offered keen insights into the concept of The Holy Trinity. Annie Besant http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Wbesant.htm http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/besant/besant1.html Catholic Encyclopedia - St. Augustine http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1301.htm Charles Filmore and the Unity School of Thought: http://charlesfillmore.wwwhubs.com/ Lao Tzu: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/lao.html http://www.thetao.info/ Theosophy: http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/deftheos.htm http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/theos/baboon.htm I hope this helps, because it certainly is a difficult concept for many to embrace.

The Matthew 24 that you quoted is because Jesus as he incarnated has chosen to be limited by time and space. Philipians 2:5-11 says that he "made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness..." We know that Holy Spirit is not archangel because in other text like Acts 5:1-11 when Ananias ans Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit (v. 3) it was equated with lying to God (v. 4)or even in 2 Cor 13: 14 when the benediction was pronounced it was done in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit. The word 'Trinity' was coined by a church father called Tertullian, but the understanding of God as three persons ( not 'it') was there from the beginning of Christianity. The Christian community has always believed that God is tri-unity (three in one) because it is what the New Testament very clearly teaches/how the earliest Christians like Paul, Peter, John and others understood God to be. If God is just one person who is God loving before He created the world? Because 'love' is meaningfully possible only when there is more than one person... maybe two persons, three persons, four persons... but there must be more than one. How do we know that it is three persons, and not two or four or five? The Bible says so. That's the way I understand. You can also try to pick up a Systematic Theology and read it. I am sure your pastor will own one. regards, headhunter525

Two quick points that have already been made but I want to make sure I don't miss anything. 1. Jesus, while on earth, became not only fully human but He was also fully God. As Headhunter pointed out, Phil 2:5-11 says, the God made himself as nothing, he became our servant. So while He was on earth, He no longer had his fully Godly abilities. He voluntarily laid them aside. 2. The Holy Spirit can not be an archangel. An archangel is not omniscient or omnipresent. If the spirit can not be those things, it will really not be much of a comforter will it? 3. As far as the doctrine of the Trinity, below are a bunch of verses that talk about the trinity. Even though it is not mentioned by that name, it is implied in many texts. I will provide you the references. Read them through. I do not pretend to completely understand it. I would doubt anyone who says that they do understand it. If you believe that there is a God, and that this God has no beginning and no end and created EVERYTHING from NOTHING, there is no way that our human minds can fully comprehend His nature, designs or essence. If we can truly and completely comprehend him, then he really isn't much of a god. Job 11:7-9, Romans 11:33 Gen 1:2 - the first mention of the holy spirit. Gen 1:26, Gen 3:22 - God is speaking in plural, meaning that there is more than one creator. Ps 2:7 Ps 2:12 Phil 2:5-8 John 1:1 Acts 5:3-4 John 16:12-15 Matt 3:16-17 Matt 28:19 2Cor 13:14

Our priest explained this by using a parable. He describes the Trinity as a tree. The Father is like the trunk, the Son is like the leaves, and the Holy Spirit is like the fruitage.

As a Catholic, I firmly believe in the Holy Trinity. Actually it is stated in the New Testament that the Holy Trinity does exist and it refers to one true God. You need to read the bible (the words of God)and understand the meaning in context. Just remember that God can be in any form and can be anybody for HE is God.