You are known by the company you keep.
By Marie37
@Marie37 (63)
United States
March 28, 2008 2:29am CST
It's an old and wise saying. And yet, for some reason, when it comes to Barack Obama, the company he keeps doesn't really matter. Hmmmmm....
Let's see, his father was a 'non' practicing Muslim and he went to a madrasa, and yet he's not a Muslim. Okay fine. I've known people whose parents were Catholic and they went to parochial school and yet they weren't catholic. (My ex comes to mind here).
But nominal Catholicism is the rule rather than the exception. I've known like two devoutly practicing catholics and I was married to a Catholic family and I've spent my life around Catholics.
Islam does not lend itself to nominalism. It just doesn't. Five minutes study of this religion will tell you it's about as far from Catholicism as you can get. Islam is an all or nothing sort of religion. And once you're in, you're in. There's no getting out. You can actually get your head cut off for it.
So....that leads me to wonder, why, Mr. Obama, did you abandon your roots? What about Islam did you find so distasteful that you felt the need to switch teams? Was it because you needed to fit in to the American political landscape and a Muslim just wasn't going to cut it?
Now, on to the church to which Obama claims membership. It is overtly racist while hiding behind a guise of civic pride and whose pastor is known for his antisemitic, racist views and though Obama makes a show of distancing himself, he hasn't canceled his membership. Hmmmmm....
Someone countered by suggesting that Hagee's endorsement of McCain is similar to Obama's situation with his pastor. But that's just the point now isn't it. McCain isn't a member of Hagee's church now is he?
I mean, we all know why Farrakhan endorses Obama; the same reason Oprah does. Obama is black. (Oh come on. It's okay to admit it. This is the moment the Civil Rights movement has been waiting for) But I don't hold that against Obama. Farrakhan can endorse anyone he wants. I defend his right to do so.
However, I do hold Obama responsible for belonging to a church that is racist and anti semitic. That's a given. And it's not like he didn't KNOW how his pastor felt; and it's not like his pastor woke up one day and decided to hate "White America" and the Jews. That kind of hatred takes years to perfect.
So seriously, Obama. Stop with the sound bite speeches about change which don't really say anything and explain yourself. Why do you belong to a racist black church? And just why aren't you a Muslim? I'd really like to know, and I'm probably not alone.
2 people like this
5 responses
@happythoughts (4109)
• United States
29 Mar 08
I just care that he is who he is and he lets us know who that person is. He seems to dodge questions a lot with sneaky answers. I think there is a lot of dishonsty out there in politics right now and I am having a hard time with all of it. Why cant they just tell the truth. Do politicians think we are dumb enough that we need to be lied to?
@rodney850 (2145)
• United States
28 Mar 08
I don't care that Obama is black, I wouldn't care if he was as white as the driven snow I still wouldn't vote for him! Even the racist views of his pastor are not the reason I wouldn't vote for him. The reason is simple; we haven't seen the REAL Obama yet! This man has some of the best and most eloquent oratory skils I have ever heard but what he says has no substance! He drives the nail home about "change" but I ask WHAT change? He never really says what he will change except for changing the way things are presently! Let me tell you folks, things could be immensely worse than they are now! You don't want someone touting change unless you know WHAT he is going to change!!
@bdugas (3578)
• United States
28 Mar 08
The change is what worries me, what change is he talking about. I agree with all you said. He needed to fit in and he said he could not distance himself from Wright no more than he could from the black race, that tells me he agrees with what is going on in the church. For a long period of time I went to a church where when it got apparent that things just wasn't right I got up and left. Everyone know that all is pushing for Obama to win, because he will be putty in their hands, a pushover to what they want, the Democrat party to start with. Oprah is beginning to look like Hilary with her power hunger ways. She will have a seat in his cabinet. Any one that has sit for 20 years and listened to that type of preaching either agrees with it or they don't. When Wright was bashing America he could of got up and left.
Also when you talk about you are known by the company you keep what about the known felon Rezko, and Bill Ayers those are some snakes in the grass also, seems Obama don't have many friends that are not snakes in the grass. He is going to bring change it is the change that worries me.
2 people like this
@asuniqueasyou (354)
• United States
28 Mar 08
I completely agree with you marie37. today I saw an interview with Obama where he has further stated that if his pastor continued to be part of the church then he would quit. I think this further shows that he is trying to "fit in" if you will with all of those who are upset by his association with the hate that the church represents. I was raised to believe that the company you keep gives a clear indication of the views you represent. this church promotes divisiveness between race. Obama's support of this church for 20 years indicates to me that he too supports the same level of divisiveness. I fear the "change" that he may bring if he is elected President.
1 person likes this
@whiteheron (4222)
• United States
29 Mar 08
From what I have heard, Obama's father abandoned the family. Obama was raised with the ability to choose his own religion and he chose Christianity. End of story.
He never said that he was believer in Islam... If he had, and later did convert, we would have all heard of it by now as there would have been already a plot to kill him by some fanatic members of that group who do not take kindly to conversions...
Those who say that he ever was Moslem are frankly liers.
Next, regarding the church membership... It seems from the membership roles of the church members that have been discussed elsewhere, that the church was a happening place in the community and when Obama joined it in his youth, he would have heard more about the need to actively help people than the things that we have heard from that pastor which other members of the church have said were rare comments by that pastor.
It is true that the pastor, who was old, who was tired, who was a holdover from the days when the struggle for civil rights was intense and sometimes bitter and when there were water fountains and restaurants marked white and black and when those who were professionals did not get treated as professionals if they were black but got treated as lessor... The times have changed. The man who was the battered and beat up and tired pastor spoke from the times within his memory, and from the erroring belief that if some got what he wanted that there would be less for him.
Were there others in the church that were positive and life giving? Were there others who were not as bitter and cranky and even bigoted in their words? Was that pastor the only person who was at the church? I think not...
I was raised Catholic myself and I remember having pastors that railed against people who committed sins, railed against coming in late, spoke about things that I did not like to hear, etc. I went to church not for that pastor but for the sacraments, for hearing the word of God read, for singing the songs, and for meeting with the people after the mass service was done. I was taught that it was indeed a bad thing to go to a particular mass just to have the priest that I wanted or just to escape the one I did not want and my church would make it really difficult to do this because it would hide who was saying the masses or giving the sermans.
I therefore do not see the importance of the pastor's remarks... Sure they were bad yet there were other things about that church that were good... The words were bad but the works done by that church were good in the community and the training that the church evidently provided in political action and in the need to tend to the needs of the larger community was certainly beneficial even to those whom the pastor perhaps did not cherish in his bigoted comments... So we have a situation in the pastor where a man's words were bad and his works were good and his testimony is that he is a Christian who is imperfect and relying on the grace of Jesus for his salvation. I feel sorry for that old man while disagreeing with all of his broadcasted comments. Does that make me a racist? By the way, if you were tempted to say "yes." I am white.
@Marie37 (63)
• United States
29 Mar 08
I find your response most interesting here out of all the responses. If Obama came right out and said he hated white people you'd probably figure a way to excuse it.
I'm sure you've already excused him calling his grandmother a "typical white person" and you've certainly excused his questionable friendships in Chicago.
I have to wonder if it were Hilary Clinton or McCain's pastor spewing racist remarks would you be so gracious about it?
Tell me this: if your priest said hateful racist things would you continue going to that church? There's a different against railing against sin and talking about how all the bad in the world is the fault of "white america" and the Jews.
It doesn't matter how much good the church did in it's own community if it taught racism outside it.
1 person likes this
@whiteheron (4222)
• United States
29 Mar 08
Interesting Marie that you think that I "excuse" racism of any stripe... There is a difference between attempting to understand where something comes from, seeing the woundedness that causes it and the ignorance and excusing it...
Did I excuse it no. Do I try to understand it yes.
Did I like his comment about "typical white woman" no but do I understand how he could slip up and say it... yes... How many times have you heard, Ah he's a typical Irish man with the bottle... I am half Irish and don't drink yet I have heard it said that all Irish drink. Hmm. Or how about the mention of Italian sign language. My friend is sicilian Italian and talks about this. We use typical stereotypes all the time... It may not be okay but we do it. I would be interested in finding out what came after the word "typical" was it a negative comment or was he as I have heard merely saying that she was like everyone else and not trying to stand out in any way in her activities... the meaning of typical...
Too me, the context is important and I do not know the full context.
And regarding McCain and Hilary, I believe that they have associated with a lot of unsavory people themselves ... but frankly I am not out here to attack only to provide both sides of the debate as there seemed to be a lack of balance...
I am a firm believer that it is necessary to look at things from more than one perspective and that it is also necessary to avoid knee jerk and reactive judgements and I tend to defend people when I see them being made.
@whiteheron (4222)
• United States
29 Mar 08
I was lucky in that my favorite pastor was best friends with the Rabbi in town... That was something that a lot of the parishioners did not approve of and many people did leave because of this. My family stayed at the parish just as my grandfather stayed in Detroit when there was "white flight" in that city.
My paster angered some because was the kind of man that when the wealthy people of the church presented him a car, he gave that car to the poor in the church and continued to drive his old beat up car. He did this more than once.
He allowed the police and fire departments to use the church as a training area and it was only when they said that he could not continue to be a chaplin to them if he did not accept a car with his name and chaplin title on it that he kept and drove a new car.
I was taught about social justice and compassion from him and from my teachers. I studied the works of Martin Luther King along with the writings of Black Like Me and the Fire Next Time by Malcolm X and the writings of Gandhi and Ceaser Chavez... That is why I speak as I do.
I know that the pastor spoke poorly and I disagree with what he said. I have heard people I love speak words about others that I totally disagree with and I have still continued to love them and to care about them...
Some of these people are closer to me than any pastor would be...Some of them are members of my family...
My family you see is split... Democrats and Republicans and Libertarians.....Conservative and Liberal... and at least one member is himself a bit of a racist at times in his words although in his practice he is anything but.