You Must Support Torture To Be A Patriot!
By jormins
@jormins (1223)
United States
April 15, 2008 2:39pm CST
I'm not sure if people just don't know, or if just the political hatred is so high, that literally I have been called a liar and unpatriotic because I think it is wrong that our country now believes and practices in torture, when after World War II we were the ones who helped set up world principles in the Geneva Convention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention
Torture is not American and not something no one should be forced to be proud of it in order to be patriotic. Just like we shouldn't have to wear a pin to prove it either. Those who think so are very simpleminded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_and_the_United_States
So I'm sure I will be called Fascist or whatever vile names certain people can think of, however it is my belief a true patriot can be against torture and still be a patriot. Blindly following your party or government when they are clearly wrong does not make you a proud American.
2 people like this
4 responses
@dawnald (85146)
• Shingle Springs, California
15 Apr 08
There's a saying "my country right or wrong". You can interpret it 2 ways, I think.
1. blind support of your country no matter what
2. loving your country despite its flaws and working to correct them
I prefer the second interpretation.
If we don't speak up when our country does something bad, how long before things get worse?
2 people like this
@jormins (1223)
• United States
15 Apr 08
I do agree which is why I have become so active in these elections when in honesty I hate politics. I think its fine to be proud to be an American as I am but also having the opinion we are totally in the wrong and need to change some major policies.
While I have joked about moving to Canada if Clinton were to be elected I am in no way not proud to be an American. I just don't see why its so black and white with the far right.
2 people like this
@tigertang (1749)
• Singapore
15 Apr 08
Just as loving a person means accepting their faults and weaknesses as well as their strengths, the same goes for loving your nation. Seriously, when was it ever unpatriotic to stand up and say, "I think what my government is doing is wrong"
And you are right, it's particularly important that the USA makes a stand against torture. The USA has lead the world into being a more civilised place and i would be seriously damaging to the world's moral fabric if the USA were to betray every principle it once stood for.
@MntlWard (878)
• United States
16 Apr 08
I don't get it either.
Torture is not a virtue, even if you try to justify it by saying the tortured are "terrorists." We don't even know that the people in Gitmo are connected to terrorism in any way. If the evidence against them was so strong, the prosecutors wouldn't need torture-induced "evidence" to be allowed in those tribunals.
1 person likes this
@jormins (1223)
• United States
16 Apr 08
I am surprised how many basically think torture is fine because of 911. Unfortunately, all we are doing is building another generation of people to hate us while in the meantime impugn our own morals and values. If we truly saved lives by using these extreme immoral methods, why did they destroy the only evidence that copuld have proved it? I've never been a person who goes out of their way for minorities or immigrants but after what I have experienced just trying to express my support for Obama, I feel like we may have done blacks and muslims some serious wrongs over the years and I feel like crap about it as I never thought it was that bad.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
16 Apr 08
Bravo, Jormins! I love my country, nobody can tell me I'm not patriotic, I support the troops even though I'm against the war and especially its handling! I'm ashamed of our country's practice of torture not matter who it is that's being tortured. The GOP nominee, John McCain, of whom I'm not a huge fan as you know, said the same thing last night on Hardball. He said a former al-Qaeda operative told him the photos from Abu-Graib was the best recruiting tool he'd ever been handed. Nothing would make me prouder than for my country to once rise above the rest and to be what we used to brag about. Great discussion and I'm read for the attacks and name-calling too!
Annie
@rodney850 (2145)
• United States
15 Apr 08
Problem is, Jormins (and I said this on the other thread but I don't believe you have been back) The terrorists most definitely don't play by the "rules"! So to say "we will take the high road even when we are being decimated" is not only idiotic but will result in the demise of our country! You hit the nail on the head when you dais "terrorism isn't going away" but where you are wrong is to believe we can beat it by fighting it conventionally! There is nothing conventional about terrorism and if we don't "fight fire with fire" We WILL lose!
@jerzgirl (9327)
• United States
16 Apr 08
If we do what they do, then we are just like them. In order to be looked upon as better, we need to actually BE better. Right now, we are so far behind many industrialized nations in so many areas - for us to lose the esteem of even our allies puts us in a really risky position internationally.
