Speculative Gains TAX PENALTY ?
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
United States
April 23, 2008 11:09am CST
Most everyone has heard of a Capital Gains TAX BREAK. The concept is simple. To encourage investment, the government will tax the profit at a lower rate for investments over a certain period of time.
What's a Speculative Gains TAX PENALTY? It is sort of the opposite of the Capital Gains TAX BREAK. The concept is simple. To discourage speculation, the government will tax the profit at a higher rate for investments under a certain period of time.
Now, while these 2 seem to be opposites, conceptually they are the same. Each merely involves varying the tax rate as a function of time. This being the case it would be very feasible to have one law that encompasses both.
How would that work?
Suppose we decided that an investment that was 'flipped' immediately should be taxed at 2 times the normal rate but that an investment held for 5 years or more should pay zero taxes. A simple mathematical equation called a linear equation will be used to figure the tax rate multiplier. In this case, the y intercept would be 2. The x intercept would be 5. That would result in the following equation for the tax rate multiplier for investments 5 years or shorter.
Amount of tax multiplier = -(2/5) * (number years investment held) + 2
The above equation could be modified to accomadate any set of parmaters the legislature would want to make law.
What do you think? Could the concept of the Capital Gains Tax Break be expanded to include the Speculative Gains Tax Penalty?
1 person likes this
3 responses
@sherrylwatts (326)
• United States
23 Apr 08
So if I understand what you're saying you believe that people who invest in something that has an immediate return not only be penalized by paying short term capital gains tax (normally taxed as ordinary income) but also be penalized by having to pay an additional tax? I'm sorry, I just don't get the thinking behind this. Let's say a friend of mine wants to start a new business, and according to her very well though out business plan, she can expect to break even and make money after 12 months (one year is considered long term here), so I invest in her business. The business takes off and after only 6 months she is able to pay back my original investment plus interest - now I'm going to be penalized? Quite frankly what it would cause me and most investors I know to do is not invest, which would keep our money from circulating, thereby improving the economy as a whole. How does this help society?
1 person likes this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
23 Apr 08
Okay, the amount of time can be adjusted to whatever would be best. For example, have the amount of time adjusted to zero taxes after only 6 months instead of 5 years, if that is better.
The advantage in this is take the huge profit out of short term (often less than 1 day) computer trading in the futures and commodity markets that result in the wild flucuations in oil and other commodities.
Free markets have provided tremendous advantages to society. Now, computers and derivatives have dragged a disadvantage into markets. Wild price swings. Reduce the amount of extreme short term trading, reduce the wild price swings. The parameters can be optimized for what works best.
This would actually increase long term investment. The economy would not be as unstable and investments over any length of time it was decided was best would be tax free.
@sherrylwatts (326)
• United States
23 Apr 08
I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Yes, there are wild fluctuations in the market, but this is not a new phenomenon, remember the stock market crash of 1929? Within a 3 year period, stocks fell 80% of their original value. Yes, some commodities are artificially inflated, but there is always a correction in the market, yes some people do profit, but they are still out there putting their funds to work. Since any investment is a gamble, I believe that punishing those that have that gamble pay off early is only going to decrease the amount being returned to the economy. Higher taxes are seriously making me not want to invest at all. Holding on to money, sure I may lose 2.5% per year on average due to inflation, but I'm still in a better place than if I'm paying 38% taxes.
1 person likes this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
23 Apr 08
Don't worry about disagreeing with me. Very few people think it is a good idea. You are in the majority to not like this idea.
BTW: This would have prevented the stock market crash of 1929 as well as 1987.
In 1929 without computers, the equation would have been adjusted differently, but still effective in preventing "irrational exhubrence" in the words of Alan Greenspan.
@clrumfelt (5490)
• United States
24 Apr 08
What I think you're getting at here is that longer investment periods will pay less taxes on the returns.If that would help stabilize the economy it would be
a good idea.
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
24 Apr 08
Yes, longer investment periods would pay less while shorter would pay more. This addition of lesser periods paying more is what's different and controversial in my idea.
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
24 Apr 08
What a joke, taxation has gone to far. Just to be honest with you, I do not understand everything you have writen, but I think you are saying is if you are a Day Trader you will pay more taxes on your investment than a long term investor. What different does it matter if you buy and sell in days instead of months, or years. So to answer your question, no government should not tax investments neither short nor long term.
1 person likes this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
24 Apr 08
Your idea to not tax investments, at all is far superior to my idea. I just know there is no chance of getting that. Whereas my idea has at least the chance of the proverbial snowball in hades.
You basically have understood my proposal. It is that short term investments would be punished and longer term would be rewarded. Longer term investments would not be taxed at all, if I had my way. The proposed equation could be adjusted to produce maximum benefit of the new tax policy.