Polygamy Case in Texas...

@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
May 22, 2008 1:06pm CST
The 3rd Court of Appeals (Austin, TX) found that the kids of the polygamous families of the FLDS Church were taking into custody through grounds that were "legally and factually insufficient". Children in immediate danger is the only grounds for taking minors into custody without hearings or trials. However, they did not order the immediate return of the kids. I have worried that the state didn't act within the limits of the law and the rights of the children and parents in this case. There is no excuse for jumping the gun or going beyond the law in this case. All the major claims and news items about overt abuse and neglect were discredited along the way. There was no temple with nothing but a bed, the kids were not malnourished and even the two pregnant girls turned out to be of age. That isn't saying I support the practices of the FLDS, in fact, the exact opposite is true. What I do support is the Constitutional rights of the kids, their parents and the FLDS. If i can't support the rights of those who I disagree with, then i don't support the Constitution at all. The State of Texas did justice a disservice and made it even harder for prosecutors to bring the FLDS leaders to justice. They also reinforce the fears of "outsiders" that have been ingrained in these kids. The Texas officials who apparently acted illegally have just added more trauma to the kids they hoped to have been protecting.
2 people like this
6 responses
@foxyfire33 (10005)
• United States
22 May 08
I think this is probably some of the best news I've heard lately. The government needs to remember that just because they don't like a groups policies they don't have the right to invade. Lot's of groups have problems and bad apples, probably this group does too, but that doesn't give anyone the right to say they are ALL bad. I hope the children are all returned as required and the state leaves these people alone.
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@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
22 May 08
It's not all good news. Yes, it's good that the rule of law has been upheld, but it only adds to the problem with the FLDS church. The first problem is going to be.. who do they "return" the kids to? The blood tests were ordered because most of the kids had no birth certificates. How does the court return the kids to their parents if the parentage can't be determined? Next problem... most of the kids haven't seen their parents in years. The parents of these kids weren't living in Texas. These kids were brought to the church property in Texas because they were deemed "the most pure". Some of these kids were younger than 3 years old when they were brought to Texas. Even when parentage is established (providing this ruling doesn't put an end to the blood tests), many of these kids will be returned to parents they don't remember. There is still the question of underage marriages, the "lost boys", the polygamy itself, the abandonment of wives when they get too old, the welfare fraud, and other illegal activities that members and leaders have been up to in Colorado City and Hilldale (as well as other places).
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@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
23 May 08
Most of the news I get about the FLDS Church in general is from my parents. They have a neighbor who is one of the wives that were abandoned when she got too old. Normally I don't put much stock in "ex" members of groups who left in less than ideal circumstances. All too often they have an ax to grind. However, this woman may have been abandoned by her husband when she got too old, but she has never abandoned her faith in Jesus Christ, or the FLDS church.
1 person likes this
• United States
23 May 08
Wow Ted, I had not heard that about most of those children not even being children of the people there, has that been in the news? OMG that is an issue! I can't even phantom this issue. Could you please give the source where you got this info, I would love to read it, I just can't get my mind to comprehend this. You have blown me away.
1 person likes this
• United States
23 May 08
I am afraid the group will become even more secretive now, especially the children. If there is indeed abuse going on, and I feel deep in my heart there is, these kids will be terrified to speak up now for fear of their lives being torn apart again. One of my kids blames herself for the family being seperated, as you know my kids are adopted. She was sick, was taken to the er, and while there the Dr's saw holes in her skin from a belt buckle, when questioned, she told that her mom whipped her and left the marks. That is when after months of family calling to report these people, something was finally done. This was a good thing but also bad, had they stepped in when someone else called, my beautiful daughter would not have been caught up in it, and would not now blame herself. This as I say is what I fear will happen in this case now. These children have been traumatized, and they will not forget this anytime soon, if ever. I think that there will be much needless suffering because the Texas officials did not play by the rules, and who will suffer in the end, the same who always do, the children.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
23 May 08
I still say the days of the FLDS are numbered. Yes, the Texas officials screwed up this time, but I'm betting the FLDS leaders don't change much. They will be watched, and next time the Texas officials won't be so careless... at least I hope.
• United States
22 May 08
Compare this outcome with what happened with the Branch Davidians! You remember the conflagration at Waco TX? Later it came out that most of the claims against that sect were also false. In fact, it turns out the falsehoods were spread only to justify the raid which was a stunt to impress congress to get a bigger budget for the BATF. That was then. This is now. The 3rd Court of Appeals has done well.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
22 May 08
Yes, for the unconstituitonal actions here, this is no Waco!
1 person likes this
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
22 May 08
[i]...They also reinforce the fears of "outsiders" that have been ingrained in these kids. The Texas officials who apparently acted illegally have just added more trauma to the kids they hoped to have been protecting[/i] Wow!! That really IS a serious can of worms then on SO MANY levels I've not been following the case but when I first heard about it and it was assumed that there was abuse etc goin on i just believed it (stupid me since I KNOW BETTER when it comes to the media )..What a mess..
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@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
22 May 08
Well, there is still evidence of abuse, neglect, abandonment, welfare fraud and other crimes. The problem here is, the state of texas issued blanket charges instead of taking the time to make a detailed case against specific members and leaders. Yes, it is a mess!
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@anniepa (27955)
• United States
23 May 08
I just heard a few minutes ago that the state has filed an appeal but I doubt it will change anything. These latest developments are very disturbing, in my opinion, because like you I had hoped the state of Texas had made sure they'd crossed all their T's and dotted their i's but obviously they didn't. I also hadn't been aware than some of the children taken from there hadn't been with their biological parents to begin with. This is one big mess all the way around, isn't it? I agree, we have to respect other people's rights even if we disagree with their way of life as long as they're not breaking any laws and it appears the state of Texas didn't do their homework before rushing in and taking all those children in one fell swoop. The older children sure will hate the rest of us even more after all this. I guess I was as guilty as anyone, as I heard about this compound and of the allegations of little girls being forced to marry older men and have children I was ready to run right in there and "clean house" but I know there are legal steps that must be taken and now I'm afraid they've jeopardized the entire case and now those who really need protection won't be getting it. I can't help but take this a bit "personally" because my granddaughter is 11 years old but has already entered puberty and looks and acts very mature for her age and I can easily imagine her being forced into marriage by these people and it literally gives me chills. It's just so sad, I'm sorry for rambling a bit here, but you know me! Annie
• United States
23 May 08
I have issues with them taking the girls who were over 18 and pregnant and separating them from their husbands when they were in a monogomous relationship. I do not agree with the churches beliefs nor what they are practicing, but I read a story about an 18 year old female who is married to a 22 year old male, and she had her baby in the hospital and her husband was not allowed to see the child or her- she was also separated from her 1 year old at the time. It's one thing if they were abusing their children, but they had no proof, and if they had no basis on which they were taking my kids from me I would probably find them and leave the country. Just my opinion.
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