Why did Christ have to die?
By ShardAerliss
@ShardAerliss (1488)
May 29, 2008 11:58am CST
Sound like a toddler don't I?
Ahem.
We all know the drill; we are sinful creatures, Christ died so that our sins might be forgiven by the Lord God.
Have a quick read of this short article;
http://trevinwax.com/2007/03/20/who-killed-jesus/
Or if you want just the important bits or are a link-o-phobe;
[b]Who Killed Jesus?
ALL OF US
Because historically, the Romans (representing all the Gentile nations) and the Jews (God’s chosen people) put Jesus on the cross, we can then move to the theological implication that the whole world killed Jesus. We all killed Jesus. In a real sense, we were all there in the crowd yelling “Crucify Him!” His death was to pay for our sins. We are like Barrabas. Jesus dies and Barrabas goes free. Jesus dies, and we go free. Though we are the ones deserving death, the sentence for our sin, Jesus takes our punishment upon himself. He goes to the cross in our place. Our rebellion against God, beginning with Adam in the Garden of Eden and continuing to the present, put Jesus on the cross.
GOD
There’s one more person responsible for Jesus’ death. And this is the most important answer. Who killed Jesus? The Romans, The Jews, We all did… but here’s the clincher. God killed Jesus. I know that might sound harsh and it is, indeed, hard to wrap your mind around. But it’s true. God the Father sacrificed his Son. He killed his Son in order to spare us His righteous wrath.
Now don’t think this is a picture of some vindictive God up there throwing down lightning bolts. He’s not a God who enjoyed seeing Jesus suffer. He does not delight in the wages of sin. God killed Jesus because this is what it would take for sin to be forgiven. This is what it would take for death to be no more. This is what it would take for God to remain just and holy in dealing with sin and loving and merciful in accepting sinners.[/b]
My question, quite simply; why did the Lord God, the Almighty, the highest, most powerful being inside and outside of the universe require a scapegoat so as to forgive the sins of His creations?
Why could we not simply be forgiven, if we so asked?
I look forward to your thoughts.
8 people like this
13 responses
@deebomb (15304)
• United States
29 May 08
I totally disagree with the idea that God killed Jesus. Every one from Adam to all of us in this present day. The Jewish people of those days and the Romans may have put Him on the cross and God may have ask Him to die but Jesus could have not gone to the cross if He so chose. He said no one takes His life but He gave it because He loved us( His creations) so much that He laid His life down so we could be in heaven with Him. When he was praying in the garden and ask that the cup be taken from him he could have had God his father remove it. But he prayed that the Father's will be done. If he hadn't given His life Satan would have won and boy would things be a whole lot worse for us today.
2 people like this
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
30 May 08
yehhhh bro this is a good discussion! ^_^
to start, since the first covenant they had to do the "sin offering" etc. to forgive their sin (see Leviticus). but in this generation God.. is not pleased of that offerings ( Hebrews 10:6).. because "..it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. (Hebrews 10:3)"
so He send his Son (Jesus Christ), to wash away our sin once for all.. and God will remember it no more.. if you will have faith in Jesus Christ.. because his blood wash away our sin once for all.. just read Hebrews 10 ^_^
you know God love us.. back to the creation, the question should be God should not allow evil so that their is no forgiveness or sin right? ^_^
we know that God is not the author of evil... it is not His creation.. if God will not allow that how could we experience Love? we could be a robot that only says.. I love you, i love you...
its a matter of freewill bro.. ^_^
anyway why do you question God..?
we know that:
Deuteronomy 29:29
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.
and
Psalm 92:5
How great are your works, O LORD, how profound your thoughts!
Psalm 111:7
The works of his hands are faithful and just; all his precepts are trustworthy.
so just trust Him.. ^_^
1 person likes this
@LaHire (164)
• India
30 May 08
brother... blood represents life force...
firstly... killing animals for it is not human for sure!!
secondly... jesus was considered as avatar.... so the point of his blood being super natural fades!!
thirdly... you can't get a life force purer than an animals... because he is far away from the facts of thinking and believing...
it just eats/sleeps/mates!!
even satanism tells that.... but it tells not to kill any animal to release spell!!
it is not human to do so!!
according to satanism... the energy comes from mind... the more emotions more strength.... so if you consider that jesus' blood washed away the sins... then he couldn't have controlled ppls mind!!
the basic needs for it is emotions... and even the gods can't control it!!
if you are hurt... you'd cry...!!
if you are back stabbed you feel anger!!
1 person likes this
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
30 May 08
^_^ brother you are so worldly... in satanism your commandments are very human knowledge and very chaotic.. it is full of despair.. this world is full of despair itself.. you can rape your neighbor if you want so... if im in satanism im God.. i can do anything, even i can kill you and justify my self.. ^_^ you think its fair?.. survival of the fittest.. the strong shall live and the weak shall die.. ^_^ thats a very good "worldly" quote.. if im in satanism i will not married so that i can rape anyone i want and justify my self...^_^ thats a Good faith my brother... but im not into that...
1 person likes this
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
30 May 08
^_^ you have a sister and a mother brother? are they sexy? can you share them to me.. im God and your God.. don't judge me don't correct me... i can justify myself... ^_^
1 person likes this
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
31 May 08
lol, succinct.
I only know a few Jewish people (oddly all girls), and none of them are very religious... It seems to make for a great excuse when religious questions come up in Trivial Pursuit.
"I don't know! I'm Jewish!"
Not the best examples of Jewish behaviour, I'm sure...
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
1 Jun 08
I remember hearing an aunt of my father berating her daughter for choosing not to wear her mother's wedding dress. "I gave birth to you. I went through agony for you and you can't do this little thing for me." Paraphrased, but you get the drift. LOL. That is the whole "God sacrificing his son" thing. For we are all his children according to scripture. I guess big brother is dad's favorite. LOL
1 person likes this
@jimbomuso (950)
•
30 May 08
Hi Shard! great post but I dont have the energy for a big reponse.My opinion is this:- when he created us he already knew(the whole omnipitent thing) of what would take place(mans refusal to accept god) so Jesus was created to provide a symbol for prove his point!I always wondered why he didn't do some serious smiting!
1 person likes this
@LaHire (164)
• India
30 May 08
hmm... another thing that i would like to come into notice!!
well why couldn't the king kill jesus when he saw him grow popularity??
ans - jesus had soo many supporters that he couldn't even think of going near him....
then y did jesus got assassinated... when he had soo many supporters...
its insane to think that jesus said... i have to die and people agreed :P
obv. reasons would be that he lost support and king found the iron hot enough to hit!!
1 person likes this
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
30 May 08
why do you question God? the simple answer is
Deuteronomy 29:29
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.
can you justify your self in front of God? How? or you don't believe in God? ^_^
1 person likes this
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
30 May 08
It was the poor, the unimportant, the lost that were followers. They didn't necessarily support him, they just followed him. When he was tried on grounds of blasphemy by the Jewish Council people feared they would be arrested too... and then when the Romans were brought in, well... they were even scarier.
@SusanLee (1920)
• United States
29 May 08
Because there is eternal life in Christ's blood, and only His blood. His blood isn't tainted or touched by man in anyway. It's the only thing that could bridge the gap once and for all.
It's the only thing that can blot out the our sinful condition and bring us into the fullness of knowing God. It's the only thing can bring us back into fellowship with our creator.
I believe with everything in me that God missed us so bad when we were seperated from him on that day so long ago, when Adam and Eve fell.
I believe He sent them away out of love, not anger or hate. He sent them out of His presence until he could bridge the gap that sin had caused and then brought us back to Him. If we accept it.
1 person likes this
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
30 May 08
Sorry LaHire, I don't quite understand what you're saying.
Hello SusanLee, thank you for responding.
He sent them out of His presence until he could bridge the gap that sin had caused and then brought us back to Him. If we accept it.
Why did it take several thousand years and the further fall of mankind (Noah, Deluge, rainbow)? If God is omniscient and all powerful, could he a) not have seen it coming? (there are multiple answers here, I've got mine... just curious as to yours) b) not bridged that gap sooner (nope... no idea on this one).
@LaHire (164)
• India
30 May 08
firstly... if jesus was an avatar... he had normal human body with extraordinary powers... isn't it.!..!
so... the blood was to be of human nature!!
secondly... if GODs have blood... then they should also have a body...
they should be a deity rather than a force!!
so where is the deity... remember... only... the thing... saying GOD is not a deity... its super natural force is keeping the theory that where is GOD alive!!
if it is a deity... then he has to exist!!
1 person likes this
@tigertang (1749)
• Singapore
29 May 08
Well, according to Christian theology, Christ had to be sacrificed to forgive man's sins. This was an act that showed God's great love for humanity. If you look at "Heilsgeschichte" or the salvation history of many great Christian Theologians, works on the theory that there will a sacrifice for mankind. Abraham is marked for his faith by willingness to sacrifice his son. This is the first contract between God and an individual. By the New Testament there is a New Contract between man and God except this time, instead of being between God and the decendents of a particular individuals - this is a contract between God and ALL of humanity. So, this time it is God who allows his very own son to be sacrificed like a lamb.
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
29 May 08
Eugh... internet crashed as I posted.
Interesting. It does make it sound like somewhat of a repayments; "I asked you for a sacrifice of your son, now you can have mine."
@positiveminded1977 (7072)
• India
7 Jun 08
Frankly, Christianity confuses me. It confuses me more than the other religions in the world that have a more complicated mythology.
And at the same time, I feel terrified to express my frank views on Christianity for fear of being accused of all sorts of things and condemned to hell.
Frankly, I DON'T know the answer to your question. I can only give a half-baked answer.
I am reading the Leviticus right now. It reminds me of a sort of constitution, a set of rules drawn up for a newly formed nation. Israel is the nation. The twelve tribes of Israel escape from slavery in Egypt and occupy Canaan. They do so by force. They drive the natives out and occupy the land. God seems to be dictating the "constitution" or "set of dos and don'ts" for the people of Israel. I am sure it is Moses doing so, not God. He only uses the image of a powerful, wrathful, jealous God to control the tribesmen, a very self-willed people. Here, Moses is a powerful leader and organiser, who knows exactly how to control 600,000 people. He even has 3,000 of them killed at the same time because they disobey "God," who, according to me, is just Moses playing a deep game. (I hope I won't be torn to pieces for this.)
Now, what fascinates me is this. The people of Israel sin all the time. Sin means breaking one of the newly set rules (most of which was ok and not a sin in Genesis) And if you sin, all you have to do is to sacrifice a lamb to God in the "tent of meeting," which is just a temple, and your sins will be forgiven.
You see, it is the same idea taken forward into the New Testament, except that here it is not a "lamb" anymore. It is the "Son of God," Jesus. He is the sacrificial lamb, the sacrificing of whom washes away everybody's sin.
All very fine if you believe in the Old Testament God and his Only Son.
I don't.
Nobody has to die for my sins. I couldn't bear it. I am sure forgiveness is freely available. You only have to ask for it.. and that too, if you feel sad that you have really done something wrong. Most of the time, we are doing our best, not sinning.
Cheers and happy mylotting
@revellanotvanella (4033)
• United States
7 Jul 08
I grew up reading the Bible and now at 26 have readily transferred to A Course In Miracles which Im sure many christians would deem heresy but it makes a lot of sense and I still read the Bible because its still a great tool for faith just as ACIM but being able to decipher all the symbolism and how the 'ego' works has really changed my life so much that Im not this angry confused person like i once was.
@sutanhartanto (4122)
• Indonesia
30 May 08
life is a game. god's game. god is playing the game. it's like he's playing a video game, but he has control on all character in it. or like a story. to make the story interesting and not boring, it have to be dramatized and twisted in this and that. that's why though he can just forgive us, he don't do that. he chose the "dramatic way".
well,everything is under his control.
hopefully it answers your 2 questions 
1 person likes this
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
30 May 08
An interesting theory, and an unorthodox one. 
But it negates the idea that God is omniscient... which I suppose does not matter if one does not believe in omniscience.
But it negates the idea that God is omniscient... which I suppose does not matter if one does not believe in omniscience.
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
1 Jun 08
Yes, but why? What is that prevents God from simply forgiving our sins, if we should ask for that forgiveness?
@LaHire (164)
• India
31 May 08
well.... another thing that just struck me is this
why wasn't it possible for jesus to spread his message and gain adherents like mohammad, moses, buddha, sai baba... and other religious leaders....
clearly you can't say that GOD didn't send em... coz they had spread the same message....!!
does Christianity only makes sense by God deciding that Jesus had to be crucified?
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
2 Jun 08
But Christ did not want people to bow down and worship him. he sought to teach us how to create a heaven here one earth. Damn...Lost my thought. We should be able to see all of the replies when we are responding and not just the original reply.
I'm going to address this with mylot.
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
2 Jun 08
It is really annoying that we can't see all of them. I keep a wordpad open to copy and paste other posts.
It's also really annoying that it removes all the paragraphs from what you write if you hit the edit button! *grumble*
I understood what you were saying, I think. That Christ was the example of what we should work towards, not the one to be worshipped.
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
1 Jun 08
Ah, but you miss one very important part of Christianity; the belief that Christ was divine and the direct Son of God, as opposed to us (and all the other prophets), who are his children by way of surrogacy. If this belief holds true then it works in some kind of hierarchy; God - Christ - human prophets.
The human prophets do the leg work, while Christ is held up as the example. At least, in Christianity.
@mother_earth (195)
• Philippines
13 Jul 08
Because Jesus Christ is the ransom. Perfect life is lost when Adam and Eve disobeyed God. Nobody on earth then is perfect. So God sent Jesus here on earth thru Mary. An Angel came to Mary as written in Luke 1:31,32 that she will soon have a baby and will be called Jesus."This child will be great and he will be called the Son of the Most High God." So when Jesus was here on earth he preached the Kingdom and teaching work that God sent him to earth to do.
