I actually found something that I agree with Barack Obama about!!!
By ladyluna
@ladyluna (7004)
United States
June 16, 2008 11:15pm CST
Hello All,
Imagine my surprise to find an issue that I agree with Barack Obama about! Obama spoke out against young, Black men impregnating women, and failing to live up to the responsibility of parenting those children.
I was truly impressed that Obama had aligned himself with Bill Cosby (and many others) on this issue.
Then ...
Dr. Marc Lamont-Hill, a regular Black commentator on Bill O'Reilly's show announced that "... he (Obama) absolutely pandered himself to get White Conservative votes". Hill went on to say that "Obama's a politician, just like every other politician."
To summarize the exchange between Hill and O'Reilly:
O'Reilly put forth the supposition that Obama was pandering for the White Conservative vote. Before O'Reilly even got to finish his thought, Hill chimed in that Obama was most certainly "pandering for Conservative votes". Hill, a bona-fide liberal, Black spokesperson (judgement based on my many experiences of him on O'Reilly) was that Obama's statements were not sincere, as if of his 'real' agenda, but that like "any politician, he needs to get the vote" that he's most lacking.
I was so disheartened to hear a member of the Black lobby speak such disheartening words. Why? You might ask: because this demonstrates two things:
1. That the Obama fans are expecting his words to hold real meaning. And, even his liberal 'homeys' know better.
And,
2. That if Obama is elected, that he holds no sincere desire to shift 'responsibility' back on to the individual for his or her choices in life.
As a Conservative, I had no expectation for Obama to pursue real 'personal responsiblity' choices. Yet, I was, for a fleeting moment, inspired to hear Obama's support of Bill Cosby's 'personal responsibility' campaign.
Shame on Obama for pandering! And shame on Obama for creating an even greater rift between responsible Black Americans and those irresponsible members of the Black Community who embrace 'jewels in the crown', the concept of proving virility by impregnating anything impregnatable!!!
My questions to you are:
1. Did you see O'Reilly on 6/16/08? Can you back up my take on the Hill interview?
2. Are/Were you aware of the concept of 'jewels in the crown'?
3. What do you think about Obama abandoning his vision of "change", and embracing political pandering -- as any other typically disappointing politician does?
3 people like this
9 responses
@cynddvs (2948)
• United States
17 Jun 08
I haven't seen Obamas speech against young black men, nor seen the O'Reilly clip you are talking about. I'll have to look it up. I would like to think Obama was being sincere in his speech as men, not just black men need to step up and take responsibility. But I will have to see what you are talking about before I decide.
I'm just excited to have someone on here debating actual issues! Now this is a way to start a political debate. Learn from Ladyluna folks! lol
2 people like this
@raimond2 (53)
• United States
17 Jun 08
Its so funny I saw your post- bc I just finished reading the NY times article about Obama's father day speech, which covered his declaration that AFrican American fathers take responsiblity for their children.
I think its great he's coming out and saying this, because it is changing a lot of people's opinion's about him, and that he's not blaming society for social ills, but indivdual actions. A lot of people can respect his position on this. It goes for all fathers, regardless of race as well.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Jun 08
Hello Raimond2,
Thank you for sharing your reaction to the speech. Yours is a very valuable post -- for this reason: I have every reason to suspect that your reaction is precisely the reaction that Obama's team had hoped for!
Every Presidential hopeful must work on energizing the base during the primaries. Then, when the general election moves to front & center, the requirement is to shift from the cohesive message that motivates the base, to a more moderate, expansive, and inclusing message designed to curry support from Middle America.
Politics is no less a game of strategy than chess is. This move represents the Obama team's first aggressive play toward a check-mate maneuver!
@rodney850 (2145)
• United States
17 Jun 08
Except he negated his speech when he indicated there might be some money in it for the fathers that did actually "stick around"!
1 person likes this
@Destiny007 (5805)
• United States
17 Jun 08
No, I didn't see O'Reilly"s Show... we got rid of the cable over a year ago.
When I first saw Obama's statement I was surprised at the family values tenor of it along with the call for personal responsibility, as that is a conservative stance... not a liberal one.
Naturally, I found myself agreeing with it.
After reading this however, I agree that he was pandering for the White vote.
As for the "Jewels in the crown" thing, I was vaguely aware of it until you mentioned it in another post recently.
3. What do you think about Obama abandoning his vision of "change", and embracing political pandering -- as any other typically disappointing politician does?
I think it is a wonderful thing.
Now we know, beyond any doubt what we already knew but no one could really prove.... That Obama is just like every other politician, and his message of change is merely empty meaningless political rhetoric.
What is great, is that his own people are now throwing HIM under the bus by exposing the hypocrite that he is.
while the black vote is important to him.... he NEEDS the white vote to get elected... thus the pandering.
How many are aware that most... if not all... of these black power groups are Muslim?
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Jun 08
Hello Destiny,
"Naturally, I found myself agreeing with it."
I would say "Who wouldn't agree with it.". Yet, if you watch the speech clip, this was not a typical Obama speech. There were no fainting spells. In fact, Obama was nearly two minutes into the speech before the church crowd began to melt its icey veneer. The first two minutes of the speech, it sounds like Obama is giving the speech to a room full of hearing impaired people. The first round of applause did not occur until nearly 2:50 seconds (if I remember correctly). What a shift from his typical speeches, eh?
"Now we know, beyond any doubt what we already knew but no one could really prove.... That Obama is just like every other politician, and his message of change is merely empty meaningless political rhetoric. What is great, is that his own people are now throwing HIM under the bus by exposing the hypocrite that he is. while the black vote is important to him.... he NEEDS the white vote to get elected."
Excellent points, Destiny!!!
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
17 Jun 08
As a Canadian I'm not up on American Politics, but I read your post and I take exception to the blame being solely placed on young Black Men for impregnating young Black Girls, and not living up to their obligations. It takes Two to Tango, and if the girls were not ready and willing they would not be getting Pregnant. Tell Obama to place the Blame where it Belongs, and stop singling out young men!
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
18 Jun 08
Hello Barehugs,
If I had a direct line to Team Obama, I would share your legitimate concern, among many others, with them.
Yes, it does take two to Tango! Although, the concept of 'jewels in the crown' appears to only relate to male virility. Though, your point is not lost. Perhaps if more young women knew about the deliberate effort to impregnate them by young men who only seek to prove their manhood, maybe more young women would less inclined to embrace the Tango, eh???
@piasabird (1737)
• United States
17 Jun 08
He is pandering. He is just like any other politician. He will say anything to get elected. He will throw his church and his friends of twenty years under a bus to get elected.
I don't trust anyone in politics. Obama is no different.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
18 Jun 08
Hello Piasabird,
Thanks for stopping by! I have not run across you in discussions in quite a while. It's nice to visit with you again!
As for your contribution here, I cannot say that I blame you for your distrust of politicians. It's difficult to have faith in any group of people who have so consistently abused the people's trust!
@rodney850 (2145)
• United States
17 Jun 08
LadyLuna,
Although I did not see the speech and in so many words have never heard of the "more babies more money" philosophy described as "jewels in the crown" but I have to ask you, does this really surprise you? Obama during his campaign has always and will forever pander to the people he is talking to at the moment! Kind of like the song "Love the One You're With"
Anyway, nothing this "post turtle" says surprises me anymore! I know he will lie, pander and cover-up because it is, after all, for the good of the people that the "messiah" gets elected!
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Jun 08
Hello Sir Rodney,
Yes, I absolutely was surprised! I was surprised that Obama would abandon the 'Black Power' movement on this issue. I was surprised that he was courageous enough to bring this to the public's attention. I was surprised that Obama would make this particular leap toward the middle ground.
I readily admit that Obama's team has kept me on my toes. His campaign, thus far, has been anything but predictable! He has some very sharp political strategists on his team. And, I think it would be wise to make certain not to underestimate them!
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
17 Jun 08
1) I did not see O'Reilly on 6/16/08
2) I had not heard of the concept of 'jewels in the crown' by that name but was very much aware this kind of activity is what welfare for unwed mothers (of all races) was really financing.
3) I saw Obama as a 'panderer' from the very start. What objective intelligent person could believe the crap he pushes? I seriously doubt he believes much of what he says.
Did you hear Rush Limbaugh's take on Obama's fatherhood speech? Rush played quite a bit of the actual tape of Obama's speech. Rush liked it until Obama got to the part where the 'fathers' are lead to believe some kind of financial assistance will be provided if they hang around and if Obama gets elected.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Jun 08
Hello Red,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this issue.
No, I had not heard Rush's commentary on the speech. Though, it isn't surprising that he initially liked it. Bill Cosby's 'personal responsibility' campaign has been enormously popular with a great many Caucasians, though highly unpopular with much of the Black Community.
As far as I'm concerned, this represents Obama's first plunge toward Middle-America. Yet, I believe that it is wholly hypocritical. The mention of financial assistance being provided if Obama is elected confirms that he is not sincerely undertaking a proposed behavioral change away from 'jewels in the crown'. He's simply talking out of both sides of his mouth on an extremely polarizing issue. Grrrr!!!
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
17 Jun 08
I'm afraid you lost me here. You were impressed by Obama's speech but after watching someone on Bill O''s show who said he was pandering you accept HIS word as gospel. Was it just because he was O'Reilly's guest or on Fox? I'm confused.
I'll answer you questions anyway:
1. No, I don't watch him. Keith lets me know the next day if he says anything particularly outrageous.
2. No, I don't think I'd ever heard of it before.
3. I wouldn't be happy if it happened but I've seen no evidence of it.
Annie
@DaddyOfTheRose (2934)
• United States
18 Jun 08
I would expect Obama to have meant what he said in that speech. I would expect that minority women would certainly want to hear that.
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
18 Jun 08
Hello DaddyOfTheRose,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.
Though, I'm inclined to ask you why you would expect Obama to have meant what he said in that speech?
The issue of the demise of the Black American Family, and the devastating effect it has had on both the Black Community, as well as the nation, is perhaps the most pressing issue within the Black Community for many years!
Obama has been on the 'stump trail' for over a year, and has only now included this significant issue among his campaign platform.
Moreover, and more importantly: Obama spent twenty years ingratiating himself into the 'Black Power' movement (by way of Trinity United), which has continued to rail against the Welfare Reform Act. That legislation effectively dismantled the prohibitions established by the welfare system to prevent women from becoming habitualized against having a husband residing with them. It did so by limiting the time a recipient was eligible to receive benefits, thereby quashing generational welfare. The Welfare Reform Act, the major compact of Republican Newt Gingrich's "Contract with America" recognized that the absence of Black men from their children's lives was a major component of generational welfare, and the demise of the Black Family Unit. Yet, Obama aligned himself with a lobby who continues to protest the Welfare Reform Act!
If Obama sincerely supports Bill Cosby's efforts (in contradiction to the Black Power movement) then why is Obama just now supporting Cosby's message? Bill Cosby has been courageously putting himself in the line of fire since May, 2004. So why has Obama been so conspicuously silent on perhaps the single greatest issue facing the Black Community until now???
Below is commentary about Bill Cosby's rant to the 2004 Rainbow/Push Coalition conference from one of my favorite academic economists, Walter Williams.
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/04/cos.html
Another link to a discussion about 'The Cos'
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/001932.php
Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson, Starr Parker, Thomas Seoul, Walter Williams, Bill Cosby etc... These successful Black American's have, for years, been attempting to shock the Black Community toward a much needed wake-up call. Where has Obama been for the last four years???