When You Post Here, Do You Really Want a "Discussion"?
By anniepa
@anniepa (27955)
United States
July 25, 2008 9:21pm CST
This is a discussion in the "Politics" interest that's not really a political discussion but rather a discussion ABOUT political discussions. This is a serious question and I mean it quite respectfully to everyone who reads it; when you start a discussion in this interest do you really want to discuss whatever topic you chose to post about or are you only looking for comments and kudos from others who share your point of view? I ask this because it seems there's more "bitterness", to use a popular word in political circles right now, between members here than there was in the past. I understand some people are very passionate when it comes to politics and have some views about which they feel very strongly and aren't willing to budge an inch for anything. This is fine, we all have a right to our own opinions and the right to express them and myLot was created for that very purpose. What I don't think is fine is when people get personal and downright nasty at times toward other posters and resort to rather immature actions such as "stalking" another member in the attempt to bring down their star ranking or reporting someone's posts simply our of spite instead of for a real violation of the TOS.
It was brought to my attention some time ago by a friend here that it's quite easy for something to be taken the wrong way in this kind of forum because it's just in print so we're unable to hear the tones or inflections in each others' voices as we would if we were having a verbal conversation. This sort of thing may be at the root of some of the discussions that turn into out and out brawls complete with name-calling and taunts that most of us should have outgrown by the time our age was in double digits. Knowing this I've tried to pay extra attention to how I word things and to read it back to myself as others may read it, realizing they may not read it as I was thinking it as I wrote it. I also try to give others the benefit of the doubt instead of always taking them literally when they write something that could be taken as an insult or personal attack.
Still, there are some members here who can't accept any point of view other than their own and if someone dares to disagree, that's grounds for calling them stupid, ignorant, a hypocrite and other derogatory things. As I've been typing this I've been going back and forth in another discussion where the insults are flying like crazy. I'm the type who really loves a good debate, it's what I grew up hearing and taking part it and I don't take things personally unless I'm really pushed to the limit. I've learned to use a sense of humor in political discussions because if you don't that's when it can really get ugly. I've found there are some members whose discussions I'd probably be better off to avoid because no matter what I say I can be guaranteed to be called a name. Sometimes I'm called names even if I haven't posted so staying away doesn't really help!
OK, enough of that! To make this a discussion, when you start a post in the politics interest are you doing it to get other people's opinions even if they disagree with you or are you only looking to get responses from those who share your same views? Also, if someone says something derogatory about a political figure you support do you take that as an insult against you or do you feel that if someone is a public figure they're "fair game" but fellow myLot members are just ordinary people voicing their opinions? Finally, do you really feel that you're justified to call those who are of the opposite political ideology from you things like "stupid", "ignorant" and "moron" or do you think this kind of behavior is unacceptable? I'd love to hear form anyone who chooses to weigh in on this. Dissenters are quite welcome, but please let's try to respect one another.
Annie
8 people like this
16 responses
@Smith2028 (797)
• United States
26 Jul 08
Of all posters here, I think you of all would know my extreme passion for the political realm as well as my firm root in my beliefs. However, I try to make it just as well known that I am open to others points of view. I am the first to admit if there is another good option on the table.
However, I don't believe that many people have a true passion for politics. I believe most posters here as of late are more passionate about their point of view and making sure that no one finds a flaw in it. Discussions are pretty non-existent lately.
5 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
26 Jul 08
Yes, I do know of your passion and your open-mindedness and respect for others and I appreciate that, I think you know that. We may disagree on some issues but it doesn't overflow into a personal dislike or disrespect and that means a lot to me. You're so right, discussions are getting to be more few and far between and I really think that's a shame because now of all times we could really get a good debate going. Like you said many here are passionate about their own point of view and I think they take any disagreement, no matter how small, or even a small "correction" of something they've said is taken like a personal affront to their intelligence so they need to strike back.
Annie
1 person likes this
@stephcjh (38473)
• United States
26 Jul 08
I don't mind a little bit of a debate too. I don't mind explaining to others how I feel about things. they do not have to agree with me. I don't have to agreee with them either. In alot of cases, no one is right or wrong. We just have our own views about things. I try to stay away from arguements here though, I think we should all respect each others opinion too.
5 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
26 Jul 08
I couldn't agree more and I don't see anything hard about expressing you opinion and respecting others when they express theirs! It's fine to tell someone you don't agree and to explain WHY you don't agree and let's face it, more often than not when we're discussing politics we're not going to change anyone's mind so then it's time to agree to disagree and either continue the discussion in a civil manner or move on to another topic. I often try to throw a few laughs into the mix when things are getting hot and heavy but unfortunately some members don't have a sense of humor when it comes to certain topics...lol!
Annie
1 person likes this
@lily3753 (388)
• China
26 Jul 08
You are a real patient person ,you can post such a long discussion that I can hardly read it completely. Before 5month ago, I become a resident of mylot ,ant that time ,I just want to post more and more posts .But after disappear for anbou 3months ,now I want to treat every discussion seriously. Because I want to improve my english,and know more about people from all over the world . You know english is not my nature language.
2 people like this
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
26 Jul 08
I didn't see this discussion before I posted in the other one, but I like to see what others are saying. I am still waiting for someone to tell me why they are a Republican with real honest to goodness answers. There are members that I don't dare enter into their discussions because they downgrade me because I am a Democrat. I think that it is sad that some people want to resort to name calling and whatnot, but, I can also understand frustration with certain posts. When someone is posting to a discussion claiming facts on something that is an opinion and you are giving them solid evidence against their opinion it gets very upsetting. Now, here's an example since it's easier to give an example, say you start a discussion about the moon being pink, and I can respond and give you a link to NASA's site explaining the color of the moon, and you respond to me with a response of "oh they are wrong the moon is pink" I of course am thinking what planet are you from. It's a debate with false fallacies and there isn't a way to change the person's mind even with proof, therefore it leads me to the conclusion that they really do not want a discussion they just want responses. When I post a discussion, I really want answers and opinions, I don't want just the responses (to get more earnings).
When I first came to mylot I thought it would be a great break for real (adult) conversation since I am stuck in the world of PBS most of the day, but quickly realized where in this discussion board to go for adult conversations. I also learned who would not downgrade you for your comments, opinions, and thoughts. I just want some stimulating conversations during the day, some questions answered, and to laugh at times when I am having a bad day, I really don't think that is too much to ask for, but then I know for some adults that it is.
It's very funny because my mom and step dad use to be Republicans, they had a lot of investments and were pretty well off, they use to make fun of me because I voted Democrat, then I was shocked in 04 when I heard another family member giving them crap about voting for Kerry since they were such Republicans. I guess after 9/11 their investments took a crap just like everyone else's, and my years of telling them about their Republican views sunk in and they figured it out, that you have to vote the person not the party. And since you said to have respect, I will just let you draw your own conclusion about that and I know you are very smart and I don't have to explain it. Thanks for the great discussion!
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
26 Jul 08
Thanks for your response and your kind words! I was told here that I'm the one who disrespects people and calls them names and that isn't true at all. Have you seen me do that, and please answer me honestly because I was serious about how it sometimes is easy for someone to misinterpret something that's only in writing or for someone not to recognize someone else's brand of humor. I'll be the first to admit that if I'm called a moron or told that I'm stupid or a hypocrite I will strike back! But if I say your choice of candidates is a hypocrite that doesn't for one instant mean I'm calling YOU a hypocrite so I don't think that give you the right to turn around and call ME a hypocrite. But, if you do, I'll probably call you one too...lol! I know YOU'RE smart enough to know I'm just using "you" as an example because I'd never call you or your candidates hypocrites!
Annie
1 person likes this
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
26 Jul 08
No, I don't believe that you have ever been abusive in your words, it's hard here because you can't hear the expression in the person's voice since these are only words. I'm sure that most of what everyone has typed here at one point has been taken personal, like when I asked if in your lifetime if you had ever seen the dollar being worth less than other nations dollars, you could have taken that as an insult, but you didn't and that I feel is because you are an adult and know that I did want to know from other generations if they had ever seen this happen before since I am only 33.
There are some member's that totally come off as offensive but you are not one of them! There are some discussions that really fire me up, but I won't repsond to their discussions because they are only looking for people to agree with them.
I am a very funny person I tend to assume that everyone is joking when they say something off the wall, but with an all out verbal attack I know that they are not joking and most of the time I will attack right back. Guess it's the German Russian in me LOL. I think that you are very kind and honestly take a lot of abuse from A LOT of members here.
2 people like this
@movicont (495)
• United States
26 Jul 08
I think you've hit a lot of points with this post. Insults and plain irrational posts are one of the main reasons I try to stay away from the politics section. Discussion about politics can very easily descend into circle-jerking and flame-baiting. Rarely do I see a group discussion of politics with people actually respecting each other's opinions and attempting to explain their thoughts without insults.
Another thing I really dislike is nitpicking. Sometimes people enjoy picking apart every word you say, even interpreting meanings from your words that you never meant to put in yourself. I believe that these people often realize exactly what you wanted to say but chose to interpret your argument wrongly in order to tear down your statements. This I cannot tolerate--if I have already explained numerous times what I meant and a person insists on interpreting it their way, I get annoyed.
I have also been to many other sites where people just reinforce each others' arguments and don't bring up any dissenting points. In fact, any people who do dissent are voted down and in a sense, "censored". This is quite sad--I think it's only through different opinions that we are able to learn new things, something that should be more important than just reinforcing our beliefs. If we don't see the other side of issues, how will we really know if our arguments are accurate?
I think the fact that there is even a post in the politics section complaining about political posts proves that I ought to steer clear of them in the future if I don't want major headaches. Sigh.
3 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
26 Jul 08
I'm sorry if I've discouraged you by what I posted here, that wasn't my intent at all. Seriously, there are plenty of members here with whom you can have a real debate without it turning vicious and you'll learn soon enough which ones to avoid and which ones are "safe". There are some that seem to travel in "packs" and they're like-minded and love to really rub it into those who disagree wit them. Even so, most of these members are decent people, some are my friends here in fact, but there are a select few that are really rude and abusive. As I said, you'll learn who or maybe you won't have a problem depending on what your own views are.
Anyway, thanks for making some great points. I know exactly what you're referring to about the nitpicking and interpreting your words their way no matter how many times you try to explain yourself. These people are mind-readers who know what you're thinking or really mean better than you do and they certainly know what any political figure means by what they said and they'll take one word or phrase and hammer at it over and over.
Annie
2 people like this
@academic2 (7000)
• Uganda
26 Jul 08
I think youraise really serious issues here, I have myslf noted the politica bias that are thrown about here-there are people who go an extra mile to discredit Obama or Mccain for instance over polical statements tht could have passed for trivia had there not been an election process in America-such individuals make me very sad! Politics in super democrcy like America will not be decided on a site like mylot-it will be decided by Americans themselves-either way someone will have to win an election. Thanks for this objective post anniepa
1 person likes this
@MntlWard (878)
• United States
27 Jul 08
If you've ever called anyone a name, I haven't seen it. Remember, there are people who don't even live in Pennsylvania who think Barack Obama was referring to them when he said some of the people in some small towns in Pennsylvania are bitter. 
Anyway, the myLot format doesn't promote real debate. People are so worried about their star that most won't wander into discussions which have already been dominated by a certain point-of-view.
Anyway, the myLot format doesn't promote real debate. People are so worried about their star that most won't wander into discussions which have already been dominated by a certain point-of-view.1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
27 Jul 08
Thank you for that! I know you've responded to quite a few of my discussions so if I went around name-calling you'd probably have noticed, right? I know this may sound silly but when somebody says that it really bugs me because I don't like for anyone to have that impression of me. I know we can take each other wrong when we're chatting online as opposed to speaking to each other and I know some people may not understand others' humor sometimes but I really don't take myself all that seriously. I mean, I AM seriously concerned about many things that are happening in the country and the world and there are some issues that I get very passionate about because they've touched me and/or those I love personally.
The whole "Bitter-Gate" thing was so hilarious to me. I live in Pennsylvania in a small town surrounded by a ton of other small towns, all of which have been hit hard economically and my friends and relatives are the typical small-town, blue-collar, mostly high school educated, patriotic white folks who are supposed to have been so offended by those words and I know of no one who was. My husband was on the fence for our primary, he'd originally be a strong Joe Biden supporter but had kind of switched to Hillary but those very "offensive" words are what swayed him to Obama. When he heard all the outcry about it he said "You're damned right I'm bitter! Why shouldn't he say so?" However, some here have told me I'm stupid for not being mad and too stupid to know he was talking down to me. Hey, if someone thinks he was talking down to me or to them, that's fine, that's their opinion and I'm not going to say they're stupid because of it. I just expect the same respect to be given to me.
Darn, I guess I'm ranting again. I just have one more thing to add and that's that I agree about people being reluctant to make waves because of their star rating, which I really don't care about, I have my friends here and if my "reputation" doesn't bother them it doesn't bother me. You're also right that in some discussions, especially in the hot button topics like politics, there are groups of people that seem to "travel together" and may intimidate some members. It's a shame because when I start a discussion I welcome everyone to come and weigh in. I really don't want just a bunch of "Me, too"" replies, although they're certainly welcome too... lol!
Annie
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
26 Jul 08
I want people to think of what they are getting into by supporting a candidate, and I do not care what their political views are unless it runs out when that candidate get elected, they regret putting him in office. I have been at the same situation myself where I voted for the wrong candidate and he got in. If someone says that Bush is an idiot, I do not think that person is insulting me, I think that person wants a more flamboyant character. I am interested in other views to find out why the person is voting for that particular candidate and whether he or she understands not only the positive things that person can do for the country but also the negative things. I mean if your candidate is going to stop the war and yet taxes will be raise, it is a bad thing and if the other candidate is going to lower taxes and put more money into the hands of the middle class, yet keeps the war going, then it is just as bad.
As for insulting public figures, you have to tell the truth of what they are like, but in a nice way, but is there really any nice way?
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
26 Jul 08
I guess there really isn't a "nice" way to insult someone and I don't like to say really awful things about anyone, whether they're in the public eye by choice or not, although I'll admit I've done it myself from time to time. I guess that's the most important point, in my opinion - when someone decides to run for office they have to be ready to accept that there will be unfavorable things said about them and that their opponents and their supporters will try their best to dig up dirt on them. I still believe in people respecting one another no matter who they are but what I really can't see is people like us fighting amongst ourselves just because we don't always see eye to eye or like the same politicians. I like to discuss it, debate, joke around a bit to lighten things up now and then but to ever say I dislike someone based on their political views, I think that's ridiculous and I don't feel that way. I know we've all come to feel as we do politically and on various issues for different reasons just like we all like different things in other areas. If everyone agreed on everything it sure would be a boring world!
Annie
P.S., I really wouldn't mind a boring President at all. I wish we could be totally "bored" with world peace and justice for all, no disasters, no crime, no economic problems, no sickness or disease...OK, I'm a dreamer!
1 person likes this
@dloveli (4366)
• United States
28 Jul 08
Sometimes when I start a discussion, I am venting rather than asking for opinions. Most of the time I am pleased with the outcome. However, there have been several occasions where I have read a response and knew they just wanted to be rude or argue. In the beginning I would play into it. Now I just respect the fact that they're responding to my discussion. I get credit for it. Sometimes people are very ignorant and think that you shouldnt believe what you do. You have to realize that we are all at different places in our lives. That may be the way they let off their aggrivation. If I can help someone let off a little steam, so be it. I do think that people dont have to respond. If a discussion bothers someone so much and they cant be polite or at least civil, then dont respond. What people have to realize is that for some, this is the only outlet they have to express themselves. We have to understand that not everyone is also a member for the same reasons. Some may be trouble makers that thrive on being hurtful. I have been a member for a while now and there are more positives then negatives. I look forward to the responses. If they are not what I wanted to hear, I try to look at it from their point and move on. DL
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
29 Jul 08
I agree with everything you've written here. I know exactly what you mean, sometimes when I start a discussion it's also so I can vent about something that really irritates me or something like that and sometimes when that happens I'll get responses that help me to calm down and get over it or put things into perspective a bit. I've always loved discussing politics and I'm quite able to read opinions that are different from mine and have a civil and mature discussion about it but when I see here that I'm being accused of name-calling and hurling insults I'm like "WTF! ME?" because I don't do that and if anyone has ever taken anything I've written in that way I'd like for them to confront me about it and give me a chance to defend or explain myself as I would do if the situation were reversed. I've always responded to posts that were stating views I don't always agree with because I thought that was what we were supposed to do here but I've found that isn't the case in some members' opinions. I guess when I've been accused of "starting fights" that's what they must mean, because I respond and respectfully give a different point of view, that's a fight? Oh, well, life is a learning experience, isn't it?
Annie
@dloveli (4366)
• United States
29 Jul 08
You know what Annie? I have responded to many of your discussions. Sometimes positively and sometimes negatively. I enjoy your sense of humor and the seriousness in which you state your beliefs. I have never met you in person but I know enough to know that people here on myLot who are accusing you of such nonsense are in the minority. SHake it off, Mamita. The whole point of a discussion is to start a dialogue. It is really a shame that some have to stray from the main idea to be hurtful. THere's a difference between an opinion and being a straight up A**hole. Dont sweat it. dl
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
30 Jul 08
People call names not because of opposite idealogies but because of ignorance. They have nothing more intelligent to say to back up the point they are trying to make so they resort to name calling. At that point, you can just venture to say that you won the argument and move on. I wouldn't deal with people that stupid anyway ever. They aren't worth my time.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
31 Jul 08
I think you're absolutely right. What gets me is if someone is so passionate about what they're saying or writing wouldn't you think they'd rather make their point in a reasonable and respectful fashion than to make themselves look foolish and childish? There are lots of people here and in my "other life" that I have disagreements with but even if I know there's no way I'm going to change my position on something I still honestly try to see it from the other side so I can understand where they're coming from. I truly believe that most of us, regardless of our political views, are decent people who really care about our country and our families and want what's best. The fact that we don't all agree on what that "best" is or how to achieve it doesn't make any of us evil or stupid it just makes us individuals. For most issues there's a middle ground that can be reached between reasonable people but nothing gets resolved by calling names and playing schoolyard games like "gossiping" about another member right under his or her nose. Can't you just picture two spoiled little kids whispering in each others' ears and stealing glances at the person they're talking about to make sure they're paying attention? That's what it reminds me of. Or of kids in school that picked on some poor kid who dressed different or didn't always look real nice and then they'd start picking on anyone that dared to be friendly with the poor outcast. Did some people here miss the bus to adulthood?
Annie
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
31 Jul 08
I think many did. Nice analogy by the way!
1 person likes this
@pooh08 (671)
• Vietnam
26 Jul 08
When I go here, I want to know how about other people in the world feel. And I go here to study some experiments which everybody had passed. I go here to improve my English's skill, too. If I don't practice more and more, I think I'll forget everything I have learning. Before I post response, I usually read the topic and then I think can I answer this topic to advise to everybody can read it.
2 people like this
@kenzie45230 (3560)
• United States
26 Jul 08
I've never thought name calling was okay. My mother taught me that, especially that it was never nice to question another's intelligence.
This time around, our political discussions - all over the internet - are unbelievable. Those words you mentioned are tossed around everywhere you go.
A gentleman at another site cleared it up somewhat for me. He said in the "old days" Americans used to be truly united - then we could disagree respectfully. Now, he thinks we disagree without ever first being united. I think the man is right. We, Americans, don't seem to be able to unite on anything anymore. And so our political discussions become quite heated. We cannot change each other's feelings or ideas about candidates. We cannot even get someone on another side to agree that we might be right about one single thing.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
27 Jul 08
You're so right! Do you recall that very brief moment in time right after 9/11 when we were truly united? Unfortunately, it was short-lived and before we knew it the partisan bickering was back worse than ever. What amazes me is that some people are so arrogant in their thinking and feel so justified in calling those who disagree with them things like stupid morons or hypocrites that they honestly don't even know they're name-calling or being disrespectful! My mother taught me the same as yours taught you. I guess we just took for granted that all moms were like that!
Annie
@soooobored (1184)
• United States
26 Jul 08
I post in politics from time to time, I consider myself non-partisan, but I guess I do lean one way over another. At any rate, I also love debate and discussion, and those only work if there is a disagreement. It's discouraging though, because you are right, a lot of these political posters want to just pat each other on the back and bully anyone out who opposes them.
1 person likes this
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
26 Jul 08
Annie let us be honest, I do not like you and you do not like me. I do not like responding to any of your discussions. So why am I responding today? The only reason I am responding to your discussion is I am humored by the idea that you are trying to educate the masses. Everything that you have written about you have done yourself.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
27 Jul 08
"Oh I see it Annie, my friend can be called stupid by ElaanR2 but I cannot respond. I guess you just did not read that part that I was just trying to protect one of my friend.
Annie are you saying that you have never hurled insults my way, LOL."
No, I don't think it's right for anyone to call anyone else stupid. There have been many times when you've called others stupid and other similar "names" with no provocation that I'd seen. I've asked you before, and I'm totally serious, to give me an example of when I've "hurled insults your way". I already owned up to my comments about spelling and typos and admitted I was wrong about that. If that apology can't be accepted, so be it, but I do NOT call others names and I don't dislike people or consider them stupid or beneath me if they don't happen to support the same political candidates or policies that I do. If I'm not mistaken the friend you're referring to that you were protecting is also one of my friends and someone with whom I've had many "heated" discussions where we disagree but we're still respectful to one another. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've gotten the impression that you automatically call anyone who happens to support Obama or who isn't a conservative stupid, hypocritical, and, how to you say it, "Obamorons"? I couldn't care less what you say about any politician, that's you're right and when someone runs for office they leave themselves open to criticism from the public but just because I, for example, have said John McCain is a hypocrite, which I think is how our "spat" began, that doesn't mean I was calling you or anyone else who supports him a hypocrite.
The bottom line is, if I've learned anything in my 55 years it's that life is too short to waste time on worthless arguments and that I'm quite willing and able to agree to disagree and move on. I'm not here on myLot to cause trouble or to make enemies but I also know everyone isn't going to like everyone else. If you'd prefer that I avoid your discussions completely, even if one of my friends has posted and I have something to say to them, I'll be happy to do so. Everyone is welcome in any discussion I start, all I ask is that posters "give what they get", meaning if you're treated with respect you should treat others likewise. If you're not, then that's a different story but I personally believe in confronting someone in a straight-forward fashion to clear up any misunderstandings.
Annie
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
26 Jul 08
I'm trying to "educate the masses"? That really wasn't my intent at all, I asked an honest question here. I'd also sincerely like to know when I've done everyting I've written about. I thought your friend was referring to you in her response which comes right after yours but you know you have called people names and said some pretty insulting things. In a post I read yesterday you called somebody stupid, I believe what started this whole "problem" between us was when you called me a hypocrite. You call anyone who supports Obama a moron, you know you do. That's one point I was trying to make below, in my opinion if someone says something against a public figure that should mean they're calling that figure's supporters names. If we're not on the same page here there's not much I can do about it. Anyway, my main question here was when you post a political discussion is it an actual discussion you're looking for meaning are you willing to get responses from people who disagree with you, or is anyone who does disagree just leaving themselves open to ridicule?
Annie
1 person likes this
@nasohail3 (355)
• India
26 Jul 08
hey guys why ur worring about politiccal parties they will fight with each other we can't turst to any political parties because all are same and giving respect to elder its right because gave respect take respect is my policy any how who is the person may be not might be concern to me if they understand with each other and they cambine then only our country will develop other wise this people only fight with each other then thing will be developed in our countries so plz my mesage to all political parties do work between understanding what ever may be and try to make good thing and try to help with poor person in some village they can't get food or water properly so provide them in a equal manner
