What we cannot see doesn't testify to nonexistent

I couldn't agree more. All the creations of God testify to his existence.

Agreed but what about dark matter? They can never see it, it's theoretically measured by the bending of light... really if we can go so further to testify to such a knowledge then i think we are stupid not to believe in God. I mean such an intricate balance between nature and our earth is not even a grain of salt... actually it's even minuscule and to have such a thriving life form here is not by some random scientific mishap and though i completely respect ur viewpoint, one doesn't even have to look further then his/her own body. And to feel the existence of God is personal.

Dark matter's an odd one, though. The name makes it sound far too mysterious, for one. Pluto's practically dark matter, in that it's barely visible as a smudge on telescopes; to say it was discovered at the beginning of the 20th century, it took them till the 1990s to confirm it actually had a moon half as big as it. Dark matter's just one step further; it's either interstellar dust too fine to see, or nonreflective bodies. It's only generally used to add mass to the universe which is otherwise inexplicable, so it's not really a belief as a hypothesis. Scientists don't believe in dark matter any more than they believe in the Higgs Boson: It's just an explanation that fits the facts, and would be thrown out if a better explanation comes along. God isn't a hypothesis, he's a faith; he doesn't fit the established facts, and yet people still posit his existence. Bertram Russell knocked down this line of thought best a while back with his Teapot argument. It's statistically possible that there's an invisible teapot orbiting the Sun, undetectable to us by any means. We can't prove it exists, but that doesn't mean we should automatically assume that it does. It's far more likely that it doesn't exist than it does, so we should work on the basis that it doesn't. It also has no effect on daily life whether it does exist or not.

Yeah the teapot scenario... :D i'll come to that later in this post I agree to most of the things you have said and i thank you for not going away from the well-mannered discussion that we are having and deviating away from the respect that we show for each other opinions beside having two very different understanding. Now to the discussion, A theory is just a theory... agreed there and no arguments... seriously i say why atheists and theists are considered so different when we agree on most of the things except when it comes to believing in God :D ... ok , what then makes a theory credible? Say take theory of evolution for example... Many theists and i myself don't believe in evolution but still that theory persists... why? This is because theory of evolution has helped us in the progress of science... so therefore we can say that such a theory, if not proven as a fact, is helpful and hence credible and therefore, could not be rejected as a plausible consequence and the changes that took place in our world. So let's bring dark matter into the picture... Yes it's a theory and like any other theory it is subjected to test and evaluation for fallacies... so does dark matter help us in our understanding of this universe and science in general? YES, it does! 1. It helps us explain the BIG BANG... because without it , why the heck a compact mass, that contained all the celestial bodies, in a minute grain a size of no more than that of a pellet of sand would explode all of a sudden? 2. Given that it explodes with some "unknown" force, then what has driven it away from the center/focus where the big bang originated? ( Hint: it is dark matter) and to further spice this up, what that UNKNOWN FORCE exactly is :D ? 3. What keeps the universe expanding? Again dark matter, otherwise different galaxies would be interacting with each other at such a scale that we would then be on a collision course with any thing with a significant mass and our universe wouldn't be expanding as such a rapid rate 4. To throw in a curve ball, there's something called dark energy... which i'm assuming u have already heard of... it is this dark energy that is like the anti of the dark matter, to roughly describe it. So why wouldn't the universe won't keep expanding... ur answer lies in dark energy because that would eventually cause the ultimate doom of the universe itself... which is shrinkage to nothing more than a size of a grain that we started from :) Ok a few things i believe you overlooked How could the Holy Quran, Holy book of the Muslims have so clearly stated the things we just came to know recently like the expansion of the universe and the eventual shrinkage? Coming back to the teapot... i could ask you the same question? How do you know that it's just there for no reason, that is if it is present at all in that space? Can you be certain? i know i can't ? But it is either that it is there or not? We all agree on to that... but neither of us can prove otherwise... so who's wrong and who's right? :D see the fallacy , see how illogic that thought and argument of teapot is... Ok say for the sake of argument, a teapot does exist (see i'm being open minded) but i would disagree that it's just sitting there for no reason... Since we have established that it exists, then it must be influencing its environ, its surrounding, agreed? Ok moving on, because it does have a mass, then it probably has as much impact as a sun of our solar system or any other mass for that matter because even a slightest gravitational attraction between two bodies could produce wonders... in fact the whole universe we see now is a harmonious symphony of gravitational and all other known physical forces and that we don't know of yet that exists between ALL , and i say ALL the objects in this very universe... who knows what significance that teapot would be holding? Thank you for your understanding

Couldn't agree more... As i said... one shouldn't look further than his/her own body... the complexity and the simplicity...what a beauty It can't be a random evolutionary mistake, can it? Big bang just happening to occur by an "unknown force" as many physicists put it All i ask everyone is to keep an open-minded... like i am I have never asked to throw the facts away... in fact, they are useful in proving ones arguments

Thank you for making this discussion active. Air is one of the few examples that not only helps us to solidify our belief in God but also makes our faith more stronger and unshakable. We must keep searching for answers and should never get off the track of righteousness. Happy day friend and God Bless!

what beautiful words!!!!!!may GOD bless you.

Truly these amazing words that you utter makes one faith even more stronger. We just fail to realize how minute we are in this tiny microscopically scaled-down to a billionth of a fraction grain of sand in comparison to just our solar system that we call Earth. And if we believe that it is just by a random chance that the Earth just was placed accurately in the right place after big bang and our existence is just some mathematically calculated probability, then we are not really appreciating the wonderful balance that the Lord of all the universe and all the things within have created for us. Have a great and beautiful day friend.

After a very long time, I have read something so profound and deep that I cannot even describe how intensely I have been touched and moved by your statements of insight. I have rated this response of yours positively but such a dialogue of yours deserve more than just a praise. I wholeheartedly agree with your statement of finding a common ground where we can all agree on something. Sadly, these days, we tend to look for differences and judge people only how we differ. Why not find similarities in our way of life? Aren't we all human? We have the same heart and conscience, right? We eat the same, drink the same water, share the same air. Where do we then start becoming separate? Our religion, our belief system, our affiliations come second and shouldn't interfere in our way of logical reasoning, since these are matter of our personal struggles, not for public display. I have immensely enjoyed your description about two opposite forces intimately coming together to make a Zero, a point of singularity, a point of truth and a point of harmony. Even the Big Bang itself started from such a singularity :D and will end by collapsing into a singular point of nothingness. Thank you for such a piece of work. God Bless!

Thanks a lot. Yes, we tend to look at differences. But fortunately, science is trying it's best to look at the similiarity in natural forces, giving the idea of singularity or oneness. But yes, as there is difference that's why there is similiarity. Yes and no are not mutually exclusive rather two aspect of the same thing. Thanks again for your all the good words.

I don't think our relationship with God is that of parenting... The moment God starts to pave every single moment of our lives, then there won't be any purpose of life, would it? God has given us freedom to decide and to live accordingly; however, it's different how we will be judged individually based on our deeds at the day of judgement. In fact, i really don't mind anyone questioning religion and faith in general. Since if a religion and the existence of God is true, then of course theists shouldn't have any reason to be afraid of. And i strongly encourage appropriate, knowledgeable and intellectual discussion without having personal attacks and conflicts. So thank you in that regard :D