When is it right to fire an employee?
@angusthethird (515)
United States
August 7, 2008 2:47pm CST
You have heard every excuse in the book.
Shawn comes to work late. In fact this is the third time he has been in late in a month--not to speak of the other times he was tardy last month. He works hard when he is here, but there have been numerous complaints from my customers about the quality of his service. They remark that he is not fast enough, that he can sometimes be rude. And the list goes on and on and on.
We have talked about it, and he has promised to work on areas such as punctuality, attitude, and other things. I have seen no improvement. I have seen no instance of him stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility for his job.
What should I do?
(Mind you this is a hypothetical case and not an actual situation.)
And how can an employer fire someone without it coming to bite him/her in the butt, with the employer ending up in court?
4 people like this
19 responses
@psphacker (1053)
• United States
7 Aug 08
never i use to be late been suspended twice and here i am still working at my first job.
3 people like this
@danimalhite (141)
• United States
7 Aug 08
Well hypothetically what is the job. In the other circumstances have you made documentaion of those. If you have documentaion of past problems then you have nothing to worry about. In the past when I was a bit weary I just cut there hours back so much that they finally quit. Sometimes I would give them tasks that did not have as much to do with the public. Such as curb appeal, dishes, something back of house.
I have not fired many employees. But if he shows up late you can send him home. No hours he probably be looking for a job soon.
2 people like this
@jedijo (33)
• United States
8 Aug 08
This is right. When it comes to firing a person, documentation is your key. You have to document the complaints, the lateness, the discussions you have had and what you have done to try to avoid the firing. I have refused people merit increases, given them work improvement plans, and in-depth discussions before the firing became reality. with your documentation, if the person does try to sue you, you are covered in all aspects. Good luck.
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
7 Aug 08
I used to manage a department with 38 part-time and 8 full-time staff and having to let someone go was probably the most unpleasant part of the job. The key to avoiding the possibility of litigation is to document everything, the tardiness, the customer complaints, the discussions that you and this employee had. Our policy, if there was a performance problem with an employee, was to have a meeting with him/her, discuss the problem and the improvements/changes that needed to be changed along with a deadline and the repercussions of not improving. The discussion was then summarized on paper which both the employee and I signed. In your case, Shawn should be given written notice that he has been terminated which includes the reasons, with you keeping a copy of the notification.
2 people like this
@psphacker (1053)
• United States
7 Aug 08
never i use to be late to my job i have been suspended twice and i am still working in this job which is myh first one.
2 people like this
@mrpsychotic (253)
• United States
7 Aug 08
You should fire someone whenever they are less productive than they are worth.
They could be your friend but in business it doesn't matter.
Than you for reading and good luck.
@baby_joy_19 (19)
• Philippines
8 Aug 08
what i can suggest is you follow the usual protocol /SOP and have everything documented whenever you talk to that employee, and have him sign the documentation. for example, he was late today, talk to him, give him a written warning or something, and specifically state in that letter the next course of action if it happened again. that way, if his actions are repetitive and no improvement can be seen, you can be confident that he will not have a case to take in court, since all of the papers that you need are ready and signed by both of you
2 people like this
@sunita64 (6469)
• India
8 Aug 08
Well instead of firing a person one has to find what the person is good at, there are many instances that one person is not suited for one job but a place has many types of jobs.For example amongst my 8 workers one comes late, takes too many leaves but when she works she does a good job and do more than others so we tolerate her. Nowadays it is impossible to fire anyone because if we fire human rights are always there, so better to employ the person at a place so that he can serve the organisation better.
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
8 Aug 08
First off I give credit for thinking this way. Too many employers use the one-sided law that says they can fire for almost any reason in many states.
If Shawn has been warned about the situation, yes he should be fired but if you've let other employees slide by shame on you. Otherwise, fire him.
1 person likes this
@cortjo73 (6498)
• United States
8 Aug 08
In my state, you can fire an employee (or, rather, the nicer way to put it is...terminate their employment) for any reason at any given time and, you don't even have to give them a reason. It is a right to work state...or something like that. Anyway, if a person is not living up to your standards, you have every right to fire them. As long as it doesn't cross any discriminatory lines by gender or race, you don't have to keep them employed. I am not a lawyer but, I am pretty sure that is standard. Even though this is hypothetical, I would gather proof that your standards are not being met. If someone complains, get it in writing. Get a time clock and have your employee punch in if they don't already. That will show that your standards for timely arrivals have not been met. There are ways to get around court. Document your conversations with the employee where you have laid out your expectations. Have the employee sign these expectations showing proof of having met with him to discuss it and his agreement to comply with your standards. Make sure you date the documents and the signatures to show proof of when the conversations happened and how the rules were broken and the expectations were not met after that date to show that nothing more can be done and the business relationship should rightfully end.
That is what I would do in this hypothetical situation. When an employee isn't meeting your standards, they are doing you, your business and your customers harm.
1 person likes this
@madekun (70)
• Indonesia
8 Aug 08
I think it's always be the hard part of being an employer.
but when it come to make a decision we must make it happen no matter what it costs. and when you have talk to him again and again,again and again, but no changes, no improvement, I see no reason to keep him on the line. give the chance to the other that might be better then him. because if you keep him, maybe it is no good for you and other employee, and the company of course.
the most important think before we fire someone is to talk to him/her before.
@lazeebee (5461)
• Malaysia
8 Aug 08
I don't know about your labour laws over there, but here we have to abide by them strictly. The staff has his job description, and he is expected to fulfill them, so I suppose punctuality and courtesy is in that list.
As employers, we have to give him 3 verbal warnings, followed by 3 written ones, all of which he has to acknowledge and sign. And if after the last written warning, he does not improve, it's exit time for him. And if you have written complaints from your customers, this will back up your reason for firing him.
Sometimes as employers, we do not want to be mean - but these people are neither good for business or for our blood pressure!
@dropofrain (1167)
• India
8 Aug 08
I think it is very difficult these days to life in such cometitive world with such employees. You need to have regular and focussed employess. I think it is very important to concentrate on your work first and then do anything else. I think it is right to fire such employees.
@Manojknair (603)
• India
8 Aug 08
An Employee is fired for many reasons. We should closely access the situation which led to his fireing. No eployeed will fire a person who is up to their pottential.
@angusthethird (515)
• United States
12 Aug 08
That is not necessarily true. Sometimes politics get in the way, and an employee can be handed their butt for that reason.
The key is to stay one's distance from all office drama. Do your job, do it well, and get your tail home after punch out time.
@pehpot (4762)
• Philippines
8 Aug 08
My husband faced that same problem a month ago. Some of the managers want to fire a certain person but they really don't how. According to mu husband you can't just fire a n employee, you have to prepare proofs of his incompetence, records of his tardiness and so on and so on. you know what they did? they give the employee a job and when he failed to do so, they fired him.
@magojordan (3252)
• Philippines
8 Aug 08
I think you should check your company's policy on employees that are like that. If you find enough ground to fire him or her, I think it would be ok to fire that employee.
@Burnout99 (30)
•
8 Aug 08
I guess it also depends on the type of work Shawn is doing. If he is a civil servant working for the government and you want to get rid of him... give him a promotion.
@Burnout99 (30)
•
8 Aug 08
If the employer can prove that there were measures of progressive disciple or can show that they tried to work with Shawn to try and to correct his patterns of unacceptable behaviour then the employers butt is covered. If Shawn continues to have problems and the employer decides to let him go, even if it does end up in court the employer has a reasonable defense.
@Soul742 (8)
• United States
8 Aug 08
First, have a meeting with him, dicuss the problem he has with him and ask him to improve on it. Add consequences also such as suspension or even getting fired. Give them a heads up on what may happen to them if they do not pull themselves together to meet up the standard that you are looking for in your employees.