I Can Respect the Atheist...

The Pledge of Allegiance was doing just fine for nearly 200 years before Christians came along and, through force of numbers/influence, injected the phrase "under God" into it. They did a similar thing with the money, replacing the motto "E Pluribus Unum" with "In God We Trust". Biblical literalists are CONSTANTLY trying to inject their beliefs into public schools, attempting to replace science with their doctrines. They even succeed temporarily sometimes, and it takes a Supreme Court ruling to get them to back off...temporarily. The Supreme Court ruled that creationism can't be taught in schools. Then what did these people do? They just renamed it Intelligent Design and kept right on going, trying to "cram their beliefs" into public schools, which are supposed to be religiously neutral. Now the Supreme Court has ruled the Intelligent Design is ALSO inherently religious and not scientific, and therefore falls under the creationism ruling. But has that stopped those people? Nope--they're still constantly trying to inject THEIR beliefs into public schools. And you think atheists are more guilty of cramming anything down people's throats? Get real.

Well all I can speak on is personal experinces... in such I've yet to have an Atheist come and try and force me into not believing in anything. I have however had plenty of Christians come to me and try and push their faith and beliefs onto me. I am neither Atheist or Christian...Most would consider me Agnostic, but to be honset I don't. I am a spirtual person and I do believe that there is more out there than just us, call it fate, call it God, Jessus, Buddah or Allah... whatever it is you want to call it I do believe that it is there. Now I don't follow any set religion frankly because I think the majority of them are a little nuts. I have no problems with anyone's religous celebraitions or holidays. I don't care if people pray in school or what have you, all I care about is that they respect those that don't. They had a Bible club, a Gospel Choir, a Hebrew club and even a Pagan club in my High School. NO ONE CARED... you know why, because the students and teachers in those clubs respected everyone eles's beliefs and ideas. The didn't walk around and try to push them onto anyone else. I'm not Christian but I love Christmas, I've always loved it. I love Halloween, and I've even gone to a few Hebrew celebraitons with friends. I think what people forget is that this country is suppose to be about diversity. So with that in mind how can we try and force others to believe something if we expect to maintain that diversity. Isn't that one of the reasons the settlers came here in the first place... to get away from religious persecution and have the freedom to worship and practice as they saw fit? Now folks are mad that others want to do it?

Bravo Ted! Bravo! I have to agree with you especially on here there seems to be an abundance of atheist who have to jump on every religious topic no matter what said topic is asking opinions on just to argue their philosophy. I also know of many cases where a professor has given people lesser grades on their papers if it includes a persons beliefs on a topic because they don't agree. Philosophy and religion isn't a public school class so why is it ok if a teacher is atheist to spread his views when he is suppose to be teaching English or literature? There seems to be a lack of empathy from some people on both sides of the fence just as you have pointed out.

You have to understand something. 'Reality' is not the same to everybody. If you believe something (with no basis) that disagrees with someone else who believes something different, how does that make one better than the other, or correct as opposed to incorrect? Religion and religious beliefs cannot be proven without a doubt. It is based completely on faith. Since it cannot be proven, atheists and agnostics do have a point. Why should we believe or agree with something that has absolutely no basis? At least science can stand behind some things that are taught. I don't cram a lack of belief down anybody's throat, I simply don't want to hear about how I SHOULD BELIEVE or that I'm wrong for not believing. I think the point here is that religious people tend to like to go on and on about it, spouting passages from the bible or 'God says so I believe'. I don't even talk about it at all unless someone else starts in that way. I do nothing to invite it, it isn't something I particularly want to talk about. The problem that exists is if you try to change the subject or you ask that someone doesn't do that, sometimes they get angry and spout about it all the more. It's like they can't keep their mouths shut. This becomes offensive after awhile. I have to put the burden on the person who brings it up first, just like I put the majority of the blame in an altercation on the person who approaches the second person. I don't believe that any 'belief' has a place in schools, schools are supposed to be a neutral ground. It is education, not a place to teach beliefs. Acceptance and tolerance for all - equality - should be the basis for education in schools. There should be basis and proof what what is taught also, which goes more toward fact and science, not things you believe that are not proven and cannot be proven. Because I say this, I don't want 'atheism' taught at school either, or a teacher abusing his or her power to 'fail' a student because they DO believe in God. The belief in God is not the problem. I also do not care if religious groups hold parties in public places, that is none of my concern. What I do care about is if they interfere with the rights of OTHER groups, such as pro-choice, GLBT, atheist, etc - to ALSO do the same. In my opinion, all of those groups are equal and subject to equal rights. I dislike seeing any of them put down or abuse the other - especially without provocation. Why shouldn't they all be able to congregate in their groups and just ignore the others? Exactly, they SHOULD be able to. Sadly, I see that even in a nice open forum such as this where people are virtual strangers to each other, some people will still insist in going nuts. I don't claim my view is right for everybody, but you can certainly see that it is much more tolerant than some. I won't interfere with your view as long as you don't interfere with mine. I never strike first. If I have a heated response to something, it's because somebody else went for the kill, either toward me or toward another poster who shares the same view as me.

I agree with you that atheists can sometimes get out of control with enforcing their beliefs. I think that the reason is simply that God doesn't play a huge role in their lives, except as a second degree antagonist, so they don't always have respect for others' convictions about God. That's not always the case, there are a lot of respectful atheists, but a lot of them need to get the last word in once the discussion gets started, and they are not above using dirty arguments to get there. I have seen so many friendly discussions get ugly at the drop of a hat when atheists are present!

Thank you, Para. I myself don't really buy into the whole atheist "non-belief" system, but that is because I believe that even not believing in something is, in itself a belief. I have a very analytical approach to my spirituality, so to most "preachy believers" I sometimes come across as being a "non-believer," and in my younger days I thought this was the case. I said that I didn't believe in God, but now that I am older and understand more about what I was taught by my parents and by the Unitarian Universalist church I grew up in, I realize that I do believe in God, but it's not so black and white to me as it is to some "believers." I continue to quote my eighth grade science teacher when she stood up in front of our class and said, "The Bible and evolution go hand in hand." I whole-heartedly believe that. One problem that most "atheists" have, I think (and may I ask any in particular their forgiveness for speaking out for them as a whole, and if I am misinterpreting, please let me know), is that the "preachiness" they don't want to have in school is the kind that closes the minds of children off from science. This responsibility would have to lie in the hands of the teacher. My mom is a teacher of talented music, so I have a deep respect for teachers on the whole, but I do know from personal experience that some teachers are close minded, and they try to push their beliefs on their pupils. Yes, parents do have the responsibility to teach their children what they think is right versus what they are taught in school, but I think it would be much better if the teachers who are also "believers," as well as the teachers who are "non-believers," would take a much more diplomatic stance on creationism versus evolution, like my eighth grade science teacher did.