Palin's quicky elopment

Normally it wouldn't bother me either, but when it involves someone who is in a position of possibly having legislative power over the entire nation and has already shown a very narrow minded view of birth control limited to abstinence only, as I said in my original post, it brings more questions to mind. I'm not a fan of rigidity in the first place and learning that she did not practice what she would like to impose upon others disturbs me.

When we do things that we realize were mistakes, most of us want to keep others from making the same mistake. I'm sure the Christian values were taught in her home, but how many young people do you know who ALWAYS abide by those values. It doesn't make them a hypocrite to confirm that those traditional values need to be held onto. It shows that they realize to not uphold them is a mistake.

Seems to me that the logical response to "oops, abstinence didn't work" would be to accept that protection is a necessary option in order to compensate for our weaknesses. I have no problem with the importance of traditional vlaues, thebeaddoodler, or the need to hold onto and reinforce them but, I agree, how many young people abide by them? Why dumb down our youth and take away essential services because their use doesn't fit the doctrine of the person in charge? Many of us with traditional families, such as myself, want our children and teenagers informed, aware and protected.

Not to mention that the bill was redundant becasue there is already a law on the books that says any infant born alive gets necesaary medical attention to save it's life. The bill was a sneaky way for the pro lifers to get a piece of legislation passed that would spark a debate about overturning Roe v. Wade.

Ok, now those articles are freaking hilarious. Ordinarily if you posted them I'd call it petty, but in this thread I think it's perfectly appropriate. Well done Bob!

Thanks for the links, bob, but I don't see parking tickets and plagiarism as possible legislative issues that could effect millions of Americans. I agree that marrying and staying together are honorable things, however, I don't agree that someone should be in a position to force legislation on others based on values that she didn't follow herself.

I agree, KrauseHome, it is a double standard...and a bad one. It's a shame that not only do we have to focus on things like the economy, energy, foreign relations and the war, we also have to worry about the possibility of losing some of our rights over our own bodies and protecting our children.

That's exactly what got me spall, they liked Todd, probably would've been happy they were getting married, and if you have such a close, loving family, it would be important to be there regardless of where the ceremony was actually held. Half the time I don't even get along with my parents, but they wanted to be there. Perception is reality, and the perseption is that she was hiding the fact that she didn't practicing what she is preaching.

No, soccermom, they didn't tell anyone in either family beforehand and, according to the family, they considered Todd a great guy and had no problems with him dating Sarah. Palin's father was interviewed about the elopement and he related that they were all shocked when they learned that Todd and Sarah had eloped. Like you, I also find it telling that they kept it such a secret beforehand considering that they are such a close, loving family. The reasoning that they wanted to save the family the expense of a large wedding has a very hollow ring to it when everyone in the famiy was left out of the event itself. Sarah's parents certainly could have been there and so could the sister she's closest to and a little get together at someone's home afterwards could have been planned to celebrate the specialness of the day. I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for these could haves but rushing to the courthouse like that without even bothering to bring two witnesses and having two complete strangers stand up for you instead of making a couple of phone calls screams of attempting to cover the fact that Sarah was pregnant.

I have yet to figure out what's wrong in eloping and not telling anyone. Usually, that's what elopement is all about - done in secret. My husband and I got married at the Court House. We didn't call that eloping. Our parents knew about it, but nobody went with us because we didn't ask them. His parents were old, and mine were working. We had only the Judge and his secretary as our witnesses. And by the way, everyone watched our marriage to, thinking I had to be pregnant. Surprise! We didn't have our baby until 4 years later.

You are an understanding human. Good for you for your thoughts on this. It's my sentiments exactly.

I hear ya, Zeph!

Last night was the first I had heard about the elopment and I'm sure CNN had their information right since Sarah and several members of her family were involved in the project. It would be completely unprofessional and possibly slanderous to say that they had their first child less than 8 months later if it had actually been a year and 8 months later. Whether Obama is a closet Muslim or not (and if he is he's breaking all kinds of religious laws daily) he doesn't have a legislative history in the area of religion that Palin has, and wants to have, in the area of what birth control informaion and options are available to America's young people.

I totally agree but I am sick of getting attacked for pointing out the "writing on the wall" . It seems that the Conservatives are the ones saying that Obama followers are following blindly yet every fact that is pointed out about Palin they blame Liberal media bias, even when the words are spewed from her own mouth.

I see where you are coming from but I am not sure about the relationship to her political position. When she was 18 she could have felt one way and changed her mind. I hope for everyone's sake that you will not hold against me things I have done in my past but now have strong feelings about since I have grown up. I think there are more important points of view to discuss towards her political position than this one.

I saw that, too, and I would really like her to address the questions that the whole elopement issue put in the minds of quite a few more people than me. Questions like, why didn't they ask even one friend or family member to stand up for them? Why not make a couple of phone calls instead of grabbing two strangers from the retirement home? Was Track early? And, if she was pregnant when she and Todd married why does she still hold on to the notion that abstinence is the *only* acceptable form of birth control to be taught in schools? Lots of questions and no answers.

You don't mean that the truth set her free do you? That's a Biblical quote about God's truth freeing people from their sin. Possibly you meant "Your sin shall find you out". It did, and she didn't cover her sin (abortion). She AND HER HUSBAND chose to accept the consequences and got married.

I did not mean Palin. I don't care for what she has done. I am not here to judge her or other candidates. I mean everyone who has learned the truth, that their ignorance has been eliminated because of the information available. It is up to them to decide how the truth sets them free. They could condemn and recriminate or they could go deeper into their souls and find something positive.

Ah ok unusual names....I wonder how she came up with them? What's the story behind the names.

Track is the first one. The last one, I think, is Trig, or something like that.

Hatley, you've either completely missed my concerns in this discussion or are intentionally ignoring them. My problem is NOT with Palin eloping and is NOT with her or anyone else's family values. I don't expect her to be a God, or lily white, but I do take issue with her rigid abstinence only opinion on birth control which has not worked, definitely once and maybe twice, in her own family. I have a serious concern about electing someone into a powerful position of leadership who will try her best to push through legislation that will affect the youth of this country, including my grandchildren eventually, and who turns a blind eye to what is in their best interest because it doesn't match her clearly flawed ideals of what acceptable family planning consists of. Keeping our children ignorant and without essential services to help prevent unwanted pregnancies and STDs does harm to them. If abstinence has not worked repeatedly in your own family and you continue to promote it as the only option for others, you either don't give a damn about their welfare or you're not too bright.

Trig is her Youngest child.

Agree, and by the way pregnancy's last 40 weeks so Trig was VERY early!

That was pretty disturbing. I read that the reason it was necessary to subpeona Todd Palin and the others was because, although Gov. Palin had publically stated that her staff would cooperate with the Alaska Legislature's investigation, they were refusing to meet with them.

Thanks so much for the link N4life!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26691018/page/4/

You should get your hearing along with your eyes checked. I'm saying that she's a hypocrite for promoting abstinence *only* education on the youth of this country when she's known for 20 years that it does not work. It's also nice that you believe yourself to be psychic but, no, I don't stay up until 1:00 in the morning looking for "gotchas"! My husband and I wanted to see the Special on Joe Biden, too, but we couldn't hang any longer. But, if you want to believe that a 60 year old man and his wife stayed up late for that reason, help yourself. By the way, the lesson she should have learned is that, if you're going to be sexually active, you should be protected...not only from pregnancy but from STD's as well.

Well said! Amen.:)

You are aware I hope than when you resort to posting nothing but insults it's a clear indication that you have nothing of any substance to contribute to the discussion. Slam away, rocket. It's obvious that you're unable to understand what the grown ups are talking about.

Sitting down and calculating the birthdate of a child in relation to the marriage date of the parents is a well known passtime of old biddies the world over. If you don't want to sound that way then you'll have to figure something out, not me. Why does this matter to you so much? Christians have NEVER claimed to be perfect. Are you? Having morals doesn't mean that you are perfect, only trying to do your best. And yes, often failing.

Note: I am not calling you one. I'm saying you sound like one. And if you would take the time to think about it (you seem very intelligent) you would too.

Did she throw rocks at others? I did not hear her attack Britney or her sister. And yeah, the last time I heard is that Sarah Palin is running for vice president and not trying to win the grammy award or performing on the MTV awards. Did she suddenly became a good singer too? This is getting more interesting by the minute.

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have missed Sarah Palin bad-mouthing Spears. Oh wait, it must have been on one of those Ultra right-wing shows like Entertainment tonight.

well, i never said she bad mouth speared I am talking conservatives in general! They have different sets of standards for people. My issue is she has voted against bills to help young unwed mothers. Why, when she has been there only she had the support of the man the impregnanted her but she could easily been in the same situation as a unwed mother who didn't have any help from family and friends.

Maybe it's just me but, if I was taught abstinence only and found that I couldn't follow it to the point where I became pregnant out of wedlock, I'm fairly sure that I wouldn't promote that as a good option for my daughters. Not when there are so many other, more effective ways to deal with educating our children in this area and so many other options available depending on their circumstances.

Suspenseful, I am a Christian and I think you judge us too hard. It's not my place to forgive anyone for anything that was not done to me directly. Personally, I don't judge those who choose to live in committed relationships without getting married but I doubt the family discussion you inquired about took place. I would imagine that the same abstinence only doctrine continues to be the only way to live in that family since it's still so popular with Palin publicallyl.

Oh I totally agree, about the abstinence issue, as it obviously didnt work for her OR her daughter that she has raised in her home under those assumptions that it does work. I dont feel anyone should put their personal ideals onto anyone else. IF they come into office I really feel we are all in for one heck of a ride as she tries to put her idealistic family plans and personal feelings onto everyone else from the power she will feel she has. As she has obviously done in the past with being Mayor and Governor.

I agree, covering something up is never a good idea. I also agree that everyone makes mistakes but, in the case of abstinence, if you have to deal with the reality that it doesn't work because you couldn't live up to it yourself, don't try to force it upon others.

I see it that way to. I dont necessarily support her but that really doesnt decribe her character today.

I looked but could not find anything non-partisan on the abstinence issue. Until I do, I'll hold my opinion. Ldy, I agree with you. Lots of things I have done in my past that I tell my kids not to do. I don't consider that being a hypocrite.

So have I, ldyjarhead, but I wouldn't even consider trying to pass legislation that forced abstinence only education upon young people when I knew from personal experience that it does not work. That is hypocritical. I actually don't agree with taking away knowledge...with the concept of dumbing down our young people in an attempt to force them to live their lives according to someone else's values. It gets worse when the person promoting these values so strongly didn't live up to them herself and seems to have attempted to cover up that fact. She knew it would eventuallly come out and probably should have addressed it but then she would have to admit that abstinence does not work and I don't see her as someone who admits that they're wrong. If it wasn't for the abstinence issue I really wouldn't care if she and Todd had married when Track was 2 years old.

I agree, Medney. Keeping someone ignorant is the worst possible thing you can do to them. This is a free country and, while there probably are many parents who do not want their children to learn about subjects such as these, there are also many parents who do so the option should remain open, with the ability to opt out for those who object.