I have sympathy for both believers and atheists....do you?

"You and Kangallo seem to take out all your anger about God against me." I am not angry; only amused. And definitely, I have no anger against God. And honestly, I have nothing against you. I am simply participating in a discussion about God, which interests me because religion and God are my top interests in life. I don't have any swords; and I don't even know how to use one. I only use a knife to cut onions, not people. 1. "The Paramatma, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is living in everyone's heart as isvara, as the controller, and that He is giving directions for the living entity to act as he desires." That's good; so the Paramatma who is living in my heart is now dictating this discussion for me to type. I am not responsible for it; the Paramatma is. 3. "Yes we are on this earth for the mistakes committed when we were with God." What mistakes did we make? 4. "Only one fourth of the population of souls is on earth." When was a census of souls taken? Who took it? 5. "We are here since some of us revolted and disobeyed God" - Why did some of us revolt against and disobey God? What command of God's did we disobey? 6. "some wanted to have a taste of the material life and not the spiritual life." What is the difference between the material and spiritual life? Is "tasting material life" a sin? 7. "Try reading the book ‘Many lives many masters’ " - Referred patient was not even aware of Krishna. She never met any yama dhootas. She never read Garuda Purana, Srimad Bhagavatham, and Bhagavath Gita. Most important of all, she never met Prabhupada. 8. "Prabhupada ji says that this material world is just a perverted reflection of the spiritual world." In one of his books, Prabhupada ji says Mahatma Gandhi is guilty of "dogism." 9. "God did make perfect beings but he is not a dictator, he gave us choice to choose." Sounds like the Christian free will theory. Are you talking about Krishna or Jehovah? Both are not same because K had several wives and poor J had none. K had many sons and poor J has only one begotten son. K is not mentioned as a "jealous god," while J is a "jealous god;" he gets angry if you worship your guru. 10. "If you don’t believe in past life, start believing" Sorry, you can't tell me what to believe and not believe. When as you say, even God has given me free will to believe what I like, how can you take that from me? I will believe what life has taught me. 11. "I have no relation with priests, spiritual masters of kaliyug." Not even Prabhupada JI? 12. "When I hear from within a voice" This is also called schizophrenia.... 13. "Spirituality is not a person, its just love for God." Who or what is God? Thirteen questions!! Unlucky number, but I can't think of a fourteenth one!! Cheers and happy Mylotting

1. "I have learned some interesting facts by these discussions, that every individual has a particular thinking pattern." - Of course, we all think differently, rup! Didn't you know this so far? If this discussion finally taught you that, then I am really happy. In an NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) class, we were asked to draw a sketch of the room. Same room, but 20 people drew 20 different sketches. It looked like they had drawn 20 different rooms. We all had a good laugh then. Of course, we are different. How boring life would be if everybody thought the same way! 2. "But upon reading your discussion and comments, I feel you will have to take at least another life." - This is what Kangallo said. "This world is not a prison. How can something which God himself created - become a prison?" - This is what Kangallo believes. This beautiful world is blessed with forests and oceans and birds and animals and of course, many great souls such as Yogananda Paramahamsa, Mahatma Gandhi, T. Alva Edison, and many more to be born. But you believe it is a prison. So naturally, you feel Kangallo "wishes bad" for you. But, for Kangallo, it is not a prison. So, how could he wish bad for you? The problem, you see, lies within you!! I am sorry you feel so cursed to be here. Yes, life has its bad moments, but it has its good moments too. 3. "You can make fun of me and the paramatma within." I might have some fun with you, but the paramatma within I take very seriously. 4. "So next time you try looking for answers keep an open mind." - Now why do you feel my mind is closed? If my mind was closed, would I have tried to understand your beliefs by asking you so many questions? No, I would have argued that my beliefs were right. The very fact that I have tried to ask you questions proves that my mind is open and I am willing to listen to you. 5. "You can keep finding faults with Krishna Concious movement, Prabhupadaji etc." - Show me just one place where I have "found fault" with Prabhupada. I have pasted some links I found during my research; they are for the benefit of interested people who want to know, not believers who know everything. The only mention I made was about Prabhupada's comments on Gandhi, which I read in his own books. I haven't fabricated this; I read this. According to P, love for one's country is dog-like. Now, I love India like crazy. So, I guess I am a dog, according to P. I don't mind; I love dogs too. 6. I never waste my time, not a minute of it! :) 7. The discussion was really interesting. :) I actually read the entire Garuda Purana because of you. If you see sarcasm in my words, is it my fault? I admit I did have fun, but I was never sarcastic, and I never felt any negative feelings. 8. I have no beliefs right now; I am simply in the process of examining other people's beliefs with the hope of understanding something. I do have a goal though. Bhagawan Osho has said: "Belief in God doesn't mean a knowledge of God. I never say, "I believe my mother exists." I simply know she does exist. I also KNOW similarly that God exists." It is this Knowledge, and not Belief, that I desire. Thanks a lot for this lovely discussion. Cheers and happy mylotting!

I have learned some interesting facts by these discussions, that every individual has a particular thinking pattern. Some answers may be convincing for me, but it may not be for others. So its just waste of time providing answers to others. And about your friend Kangallo, well he/she wrote that I may have to take a birth again. Well it may be true. But I would not say this even to my worst enemy. I think to take birth in this world is the biggest curse. Hence I accused your mild friend of wishing bad for me. You can make fun of me and the paramatma within. It does not bother me. I don't want to be judgemental but I feel that you already have a mind set and would not change it. But you still need answers. But if the answer matches your mind set, well and good, if not you will reject it. So next time you try looking for answers keep an open mind. You can keep finding faults with Krishna Concious movement, Prabhupadaji etc. If it helps you, good. Otherwise don't waste your time. Thanks for saying that this discussion thread was interesting. Even though you sounded a bit sarcastic, I accept your compliment. You follow your belief and I will follow mine. Happy mylotting :)

There are many of us believers who believe in scientific knowledge too. We are not illiterates, if that's what you are thinking. If there are some rules that you cannot accept in one faith, you can always relax your views on it. That doesn't have anything to just lose the whole concept of spirituality for materialism.

After evaluating scientifically and logically I believe that the theory of evolution is crap. The big bang theory is the biggest crap of all times. We all are highly educated people and have used our knowledge and understanding to understand God and spirituality. Instead people who do not understand the science of God are called fools. When there is a creation there has to be a creator. If I give you all the raw materials and tell you life will be created automatically from it just like big bang theory says, will you agree? Forget about life. Just create a building automatically from the raw materials. Forget a building, create a brick automatically. So how can plants, animals, humans be created automatically? There has to be a coordinator and a creator. Your 5 senses are not sufficient to understand this basic concept, then how will it understand God which requires extreme efforts. No hard feelings friend but donot be judgemental. People believing are educated people.

Very well said friend. Knowledge is absolutely essential. If we broaden our horizon and read about the lives of saints, we will understand that they have been through a lot of difficulties before achieving their goal i.e love of God. We give up so easily. We judge God without trying to think deeper. We never put into consideration that the law of Karma plays the major role. We all think that we have been perfect all our life and hence we deserve the best. We all are God's children. If we hurt another child of God, we cannot expect to be forgiven every time. We have to undergo punishment. But we consider God to be our order supplier. If our wishes are not fulfilled we think God does not love us or he does not exist. But do we ever think, that we must have done some mistakes which makes us suffer. Law of karma spares no one. Still by the mercy of God we get all the facilities in life. Everybody faces problems in life. Even I face it. But what is the solution? Should we defame God and blame God for it or ask God to forgive us and give us the strength to carry on?

For vijigopi "So long as we think we exist, we exist" - So I exist now because I think I do? And if I stop thinking I exist, I will stop existing too? "The whole universe is a dream" Who is dreaming? You? Me? or God? "Our telling them the answer will not stop them from asking the same questions again. When their own inspiration answers them, they will have no more questions to ask." By "them" I understand you are referring to me and poor Kangallo, who happens to be mild well meaning character I know personally. So far, he hasn't hurt even a fly, yet he has been accused of "wishing bad" for the starter of this immensely interesting thread, who doesn't even know him. All the poor guy has done is ask questions. Is asking questions that bad? Does it mean a non believing person who asks questions hates believers? I was under the impression that this was an open discussion for both parties.

And this is for rup: I learned numbers, then addition, but couldn't understand trigonometry. I am really very bad at math. So even if I know the basics, I will never advanced math because math and I simply don't match. However, we are not talking math here, we are discussing God. "These people do not try to understand God, but try to question who created God." What's wrong with that? Isn't it human nature to question? Is asking questions such a bad crime? Didn't all these scientists who invented the useful things you use now (computer, electricity, electric bulb)... didn't they ask questions? So by asking questions about God, how do I block my way to God? Does God hate it when someone asks questions about him/her/it? Doesn't it simply mean that the questioner has a genuine interest in God and wants to know more? "I am sure when we reach to a certain level God himself will reveal this to us." Which level is this? The level to which you and friend vijigopi have reached? Are you then higher than me, a mere mortal questioner? Doesn't God then reveal himself to the one who is so ardently seeking him by asking questions to know more about him? So the questioner is inferior??? Alright, thanks for reading all this! And I bow down to the divine within you and for your patience in reading all this!! I am sure the Paramatma is amused!! Cheers!!

Excellent!! When we learn the numbers 1, 2,3 and still do not know addition, we cannot expect that we will be able to solve complex equations. So one has to follow step by step. These people do not try to understand God, but try to question who created God. I am sure when we reach to a certain level God himself will reveal this to us. I liked you answer. Have a nice day!