If you don't like me after this....oh well, so be it!
By betsyraeduke
@betsyraeduke (2670)
United States
October 12, 2008 2:54pm CST
Two rather unrelated but controversial topics which I see brought up quite a bit here in mylot are abortion and homosexuality. I wish, right here and now, to state my position on both!
Abortion: Except for when an abortion is medically necessary to save a woman's life due to complications of some sort, I am pro-life. The reason I am pro-life is because I believe that life starts at conception. This belief is not God or religious based, it is just something I believe. I understand that not everyone believes that it is a life from conception, but I do. Though it may not actually be a baby from the start, it is growing, developing human cells. This, to me, means living cells, hence, life from conception as far as I am concerned.
Also for me, and I dare say, for many other pro-lifers as well, it is not about oppressing women or denying them the right to choose what they do with their bodies or otherwise, it is simply about life or death and rather or not we should have the right to choose rather or not to take the innocent life of another. Therefore I strongly oppose abortion, I oppose it for the same reason that I would oppose taking the life of any innocent living person that has already been born. To me, the life of the unborn is no less important then the life of the born, no matter what stage that life is in.
This is not a campaign to oppress women, (I am a woman, why would I want to oppress myself?), nor is this a hate campaign toward pro-choice or any woman that has ever had an abortion. I do not bomb abortion clinics nor do I hate anyone for having an abortion. I do however, in most cases, disagree with their choice, and I can not help that due to my own beliefs. I can not force anyone to agree with me, but I do ask that you understand and respect my feelings and beliefs on the matter and not direct hate toward me by referring to me as a hateful bible thumper or otherwise, because this I am not. Also, whenever I respond to an abortion thread here, know right here and now that my response will be from a pro-life prospective for the reasons I have explained.
Homosexuality: I used to strongly feel that this was wrong and that anyone who was chose to be so. Notice, I said used to, believe that. I used to believe that because it was drilled into my head while growing up that this was a sin and was wrong, blah, blah, blah.
However, I am no longer sure that it is wrong. I know that the bible says that it is wrong, but I am no longer sure that I believe that. I still believe in God, as that was drilled into my head so much that I can not, not believe in him even if I try. I still believe that the bible is a guide to live by, up to a point, but I also believe that parts of the bible may be wrong for one reason or another. Like parts of the bible may have been translated wrong, either accidently or on purpose, but none the less, wrong. I have started to think this way due to the realization that there is so much of the bible that does not make sense.
Like homosexuality for example. As I've already stated, I used to believe that this was both wrong and a choice. I believed that it was wrong because of the bible. I believed that it was a choice because I didn't think God would make anyone gay if he did not approve of it.
However, I had an epiphany one day. I have never made a conscious decision as to who I was or was not attracted to. I have also never made a conscious decision as to who I did or did not fall in love with. In each of these cases, I have either looked at a person and found them attractive or not, or suddenly realized that I was in love with a person, or not. Never once did I think to myself, "I have decided to find this person attractive, therefore he is", or "I wish to be (or not be) in love with this person, therefore I am (or ain't). No, these have always been automatic attractions or feelings of which I had little or no control over and in which no conscious thought has ever preceeded
Now, homosexuality means to be attracted to ones' own gender. Choice infers a conscious decision. It suddenly struck me one day that if I can not and do not make a conscious choice as to who I am or am not attracted to, or who I do or do not fall in love with, how could anyone choose to be homosexual? The answer of course, was that no one could. In order to choose to be homosexual, you would first have to make a conscious decision to choose to be attracted to your own gender. However, we have already established that one does not make a conscious decision as to who they are or are not attracted to.
So this thought lead me to start believing that perhaps homosexuality is not wrong afterall. Perhaps the parts of the bible that say or even imply that is are either being interpreted wrong on a massive basis, or maybe even parts of the bible, including these parts, have been translated wrong. And maybe even all the bible is wrong and God doesn't exist, as I know some people believe, but as I've already stated, I can't quite bring myself to believe that, no matter how hard I try.
In any case, I have decided that homosexuality is most likely not wrong. That is the way they are and they can not help it. Not only can a person not choose that, but I also have a gay friend who I love dearly. This person is one of the most gentlist, kindest and caring people I know and would never harm anyone. I have a hard time believing that such a wonderful person as he would be condemned to hell, for no other reason than whom he loves.
So, there you have it. On the subject of abortion, I am opposed. On the subject of homosexuality, I am ok with it and believe that it probably is not wrong, in spite of what the bible says. I have explained my reasoning for my thoughts and beliefs on both issues. This is what I believe and this is why. I respect that others may have different beliefs and opinions about these issues.
So, to those of you who disagree with me on either issue, go ahead, rate me negative, leave a nasty comment, whatever makes you feel good. My stance is not likely to change on either issue. If you are currently on my friends list and disagree with my stance on one or both of the highly controversial topics I have discussed here, and now wish to delete me, go ahead, but my stance on these issues still will not change. If anyone wishes to hurl insults at me and bombard me with hate comments, again, go ahead, but....you guessed it, my stance on either issue will not change!
Thoughts? Feelings? Comments? Anyone wish to denounce me from their friends list now?
9 people like this
12 responses
@seabeauty (1480)
• United States
13 Oct 08
I won't denounce you from my friends list if you don't take me off of yours :).
I am on the opposite side of the Abortion debate. I am pro choice and believe in it strongly. The reason being is that there are too many people on earth as it is using up valuable resources.
Also, not everyone could afford to raise a child. Abortion is the solution to that. Women should not be forced to go through with a pregnancy they don't want.
I understand there are people that cannot have children and maybe the people that don't want the baby could just give it up to them however, not everyone wants to go through the pain and the weight gain.
As far as homosexuality I agree with you betsy that it is not a sin. I do however feel it is a choice, not a genetic disorder.
That is my opinion on both subjects. Hope you don't hate me for it.
3 people like this
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
13 Oct 08
Hello seabeauty,
I obviously disagree, but I do not hate you. Thanks for replying. 
2 people like this
@Sheepie (3112)
• United States
12 Oct 08
Hey, I applaud you for sharing your opinions. I mean, I certainly don't agree about the abortion one, but that's okay. I see where you're going with it. I agree about the second one though, because I don't think there's any question of whether it's a choice or not. There has been a study on it, and apparently, a gay man's brain is different than a straight man's brain, it's more like a woman's brain, and vice versa for lesbians.
3 people like this
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
12 Oct 08
Hi Sheepie,
I understand if you don't agree with everything I feel or believe. That is ok, we all have our own beliefs. Only thing that bothers me about disagreements are people who think it is necessary to name call or spew hate when they do disagree, or accuse the person whom they disagree with as being hateful even when they aren't.
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
12 Oct 08
I have always been against abortion and even before I became a Christian, I believe life was life from conception. Even in the case of rape or incest, I believed the child should be punished for the father's sin, which it would have been had the unborn been aborted. As for homosexuality, I think it is chosen, but there is a caveat. It may not be the person's decision, he may have gotten that way through abuse or neglect that has kept him from growing up. One is not born that way. One develops that way by not having a father's love or care, or has been abused. So we should feel sorry for them as they have not grown up. I know this is a fact because I listened to the Dr. Phil and there was a man who claimed he was one, and did not care for his wife with which he had lived with for twenty years or so.
I do not like those who say that they the homosexuals cannot change and deprive them of hope and I do not like those who are so proud they have parades and sue the mayor if he does not allow it.
2 people like this
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
12 Oct 08
I respect your beliefs but the problem with your reasoning is that not all homosexuals were abused or neglected as a child. One gay man on the Dr. Phil show does not represent all homosexuals. Also, as I said, I know the bible says it's wrong, and going by other post you have made, I believe that this may be where you get most of your beliefs about homosexuality from. But just think about this for a little while; the bible was originally written in Hebrew. It was translated into other languages by man. Man is not perfect, so how do you know that parts of the bible has never been translated wrong? Also, when was the last time that you ever made a conscious decision as to who you did or did not find attractive? Just food for thought. You're entitled to your beliefs, you do not have to agree with mine.
4 people like this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
13 Oct 08
I do know that homosexuality starts with worship of man. And the story of Sodom and
Gomorrah was true. They started by being greedy and selfish, and the end result was homosexuality. Then all scripture is God breathed so if you assume that some chapters and verses are wrong then you will have to doubt all scripture because unless you had a camera, and a recorder and could go back in time. And if homosexuality is inborn, then you will have what I as a prolifer fear, that when abortion is made illegal it is not because that we believe that life begins at conception, but because those who are for homosexuality do not want a homosexual life killed before birth.
But it is rather that they would make a law saying it is all right to kill an unborn less that unborn is homosexual.
Ridiculous as it sounds, it might happen.
2 people like this
@sharra1 (6340)
• Australia
13 Oct 08
"I do know that homosexuality starts with worship of man. And the story of Sodom and
Gomorrah was true. They started by being greedy and selfish, and the end result was homosexuality."
Really and yet homosexuality predates the bible and the story. This is just someone who did not understand it coming up with a story to make people feel guilt that they were born like this.
As to the world being greedy and selfish and worshiping man is that not what capitalism and patriarchy is all about. Men have always worshiped men and still do. Money rules, man is supreme and women are second class citizens who should stay home and have babies and that idea is pushed by Christianity.
2 people like this
@LittleMel (8742)
• Canada
13 Oct 08
abortion, I have the same opinion
homosexuality, never bothers me if someone is
I won't hurt or bully a gay since they are human beings too
but I won't be supportive either
I do know a gay where I used to work, we did some work together
he is ok and a job is a job, that's how I see it
I see this discussion under friends discussion list so I guess you are on my friends list
I won't delete you since you have never said anything hurtful or rude to me
or bombarding me with referral links but if you want to delete me that's fine too
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
13 Oct 08
Hello LittleMel,
I don't know this discussion is in your "friends discussions" list because you are not on my list. It's not because I have anything against you or anything, I just don't recall seeing you around before and I went and checked my list and you are not there.
But if you were on my list, I would not delete you over this response you have posted here. I don't delete anyone unless they are extremely rude, or only send referral links but do little else, etc.
3 people like this
@LittleMel (8742)
• Canada
13 Oct 08
that's strange it could be a glitch
when I was going to add this comment for the first time, I was taken to a blank page so I had to search for this discussion again
and I only found this discussion under responded
sorry for the confusion
2 people like this
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
13 Oct 08
*I don't know why this discussion is in your "friends discussions" list*
3 people like this
@maximax8 (31046)
• United Kingdom
13 Oct 08
I think it is great for you to share for your views and opinions. I know that these are quite challenging topics to discuss. I would never have an abortion for this would be wrong for me. I believe that life begins at conception and that a developing baby inside a womb is innocent. However I respect other people's choices. I know that many ladies regret having an abortion and some get depressed years later. Once a baby has been killed one amount of money can bring him or her back. Aborted babies and are the lost people of the world.
When I was in Slovakia I was lost and asked if anyone could speak English. A Polish boy of 15 years old said yes and helped me find the right bus. A few days later I bumped into him and his dad by a picturesque lake. We exchanged addresses and we kept in contact for many years. He came to my home country and visited me a few times. He studied to become an English teacher. By letter he told me he was gay and that his parents had disowned him. He met a man and traveled to Australia with him. He is a lovely man and I think his choice is fine. I respect him and all other homosexuals.
2 people like this
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
13 Oct 08
I think it's a little sad that some people disown their children or other loves ones just because they do not always understand them or do not see eye to eye with them on everything.
2 people like this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
13 Oct 08
Hi there. Of course, I don't dislike you for your views and opinions. You are as entitled to them as anyone else. I don't agree with your views on abortion. I am pro-choice. While, I myself, chose to keep my surprise babies...it was a choice. I don't feel it is mine or anyone else's to self-righteously push my opinions onto others who may feel differently. What is very right for me may be very wrong for another. For that reason, I think that abortion should be kept legal.
As for your views on homosexuality...I think we are more on the same page. I never really felt it was a choice or that it was wrong. I always questioned religion and the bible even as a young child. I remember my mom getting really angry at me for questioning it. I mean, really, the bible says that it is wrong to wear linen and wool at the same time...things like that. It's been translated and re-written so much. anyway, it is good that you came to a better understanding.
2 people like this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
14 Oct 08
Ya...it really does. And even funnier...it is on the same page as where it says that homosexuality is wrong! I don't remember the page number because it was so long ago that I read this but it struck me funny that people would choose to protest homosexuality and leave the linen & wool issues alone. There were other odd bible laws on that same page but I for the life of me can't remember them.
1 person likes this
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
13 Oct 08
"I mean, really, the bible says that it is wrong to wear linen and wool at the same time...things like that."
Hahaha! Does it really? I did not know that. 
3 people like this
@SViswan (12051)
• India
13 Oct 08
My views are similar to yours....but I wouldn't leave a nasty comment even if it wasn't. Just as I am free to have my own opinion, you are too.
The only time I get really angry is when someone with a different opinion than mine tries to shove it down my throat (actually I don't like it even a person who has the same views as I do tries to push their views across to me or anyone).
I wonder why you think anyone would wish to spew venom on you because of what you choose to believe in......has anyone been nasty on mylot when you expressed your views? If you did it in the sensible way that you have put here, I don't see why anyone should.
2 people like this
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
13 Oct 08
I have, in the past, responded to a few abortion discussions here and there and received some fairly nasty comments. One example that particularly comes to mind is when I explained once that I had become pregnant from a rape once and that I personally had chosen to have the child and give him up for adoption because I felt that even though I didn't think that I could raise him myself under the circumstances, I also felt that the baby did not rape me and did not deserve to die for it. After which I was accused of supporting rapist and all kinds of nasty things.
I have not responded to as many homosexuality discussions as I have abortion and have not, as yet, personally received any nasty comments for any of those discussions that I responded to, but I have seen some rather hateful sounding comments on some of those threads left by.....hmmm.....extremely narrow minded bible thumpers.....sorry, that is the only way I can think to put it.
2 people like this
@mansha (6298)
• India
13 Oct 08
You said it! and said it well , its exactly how I feel on both these issues and have felt so for a long time too. I could not have chosen better words myself. I have found many people shocked at my arguments and some feel I am perhaps mad too to think like that but I feel very strongly about both these issues and am I glad to find someone who thinks exactly like me as for bible par,these were noted by humans only but those who had extradordinary thinking for the tough times they were born in. The creation of scriptures like biible or Ramayan or Geeta or Quraan was the need of those barbari times and they were such powerfuly claimed and promoted that they helped men stay civilised for generations to come now as times are changing so is our outlooks and thought perhaps soonwe will again find a new scripture written according to the needs of present. perhaps yo are notonmy list of friends, I would like to add you though now.
2 people like this
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
13 Oct 08
I agree, it is nice to find people who share your viewpoints.
2 people like this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
22 Nov 08
your honesty is refreshing. You are entitled to your opinions. I don't agree with you on the abortion issue at all for reasons of my own. Still you are entitled to your opinion. When you state that opinion in a forum, you are bound to get oppossing opinions from pro-choice people. They too, are entitled to their opinions. Unfortunately all too often, these discussions get overly heated. As for your outlook on homosexuality...I think it is great that your opinions have evolved and are much more open and realistic. Those poor people have been mistreated and abused for way too long. I am glad to see that their attempts at awareness are finally but all too slowly paying off.
@britany_renee (156)
• United States
13 Oct 08
kudos to you for voicing your opinion and not caring what others think!
2 people like this
@amoisan (240)
• Canada
13 Oct 08
people bring up topics that will get others to post and whats the best way then to post something no one would bring up in real life because the topic gets to heated and hear if it gets to heated know one is realy hurt maybe some peoples feelings. the issues that really matter to people in life never get said thats why im glad theres sites like this where people can say what they feel with out haveing to fear backlash.
2 people like this
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
13 Oct 08
Yes, I know why people bring controversial topics up, I do not have a problem with it. I was merely stating my position on a couple of them.
2 people like this
@mgeise (51)
• United States
13 Oct 08
I am pro-choice and am not against homosexuality. I am pretty far to the left, and I believe the right to have an abortion should be reserved to a mother and homosexuality is a choice. In most cases, bringing a child into the world with a mother who has contemplated abortion will not be a positive. The mother is either too young or too poor to adequately support the child. Homosexuality is weird, but it is a right that every person should have. One's sexuality is one of very few basic freedoms, so governments and religions should not infringe on that freedom.
2 people like this
@betsyraeduke (2670)
• United States
13 Oct 08
Thanks for sharing your views mgeise
2 people like this
