The Born Allive bill
By suspenseful
@suspenseful (40193)
Canada
October 16, 2008 4:27pm CST
Obama voted against the Born Alive bill, http://bornalivetruth.com/
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html
http://www.nrlc.org/ObamaBAIPA/WhitePaperAugust282008.html
The first one is a Christian site, but the other two are not.
Now considering that he might make president, and will try to overturn the 'born alive bill' that says that if any baby survives an abortion, steps should be taken to keep he or she alive.
If not, do you believe that the babies who survive should be given back to the parent who wanted them killed in the first place or released for adoption?
Or do you believe that the baby should not have survived the abortion, and he or she
s life should be terminated as soon as possible after wards?
I believe that unless the mother was forced into the abortion, she should have no right to get the baby back and I believe that these little ones would be better with good adoptive parents, preferably in the medical profession, who could give them a home that they deserve and the medical care they need. As for the third option, that is out of the question as far as I am concerned.
4 people like this
15 responses
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
17 Oct 08
There was already EXISTING LAW ON THE BOOKS that provided that life-saving care had to be given to 'abortion survivors', making the "Born Alive" bill completely REDUNDANT at best!
To SERIOUSLY insinuate that Obama wants to kill abortion-surviving babies is just so beyond ridiculous that one could use it as a pretty reliable marker of who not to take seriously.
5 people like this
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
17 Oct 08
I repeat:
"To SERIOUSLY insinuate that Obama wants to kill abortion-surviving babies is just so beyond ridiculous that one could use it as a pretty reliable marker of who not to take seriously."
By insisting on this, I now consider you as much beyond reason and logic as kennyrose. Congratulations.
You will be disappointed to learn that these attempts at dehumanizing Barack Obama have already failed miserably in the past, and attacks like these are less and less effective the more they're used. Good luck getting this smear to stick--you'll need it.
2 people like this
@slickcut (8141)
• United States
17 Oct 08
I first off do not believe in abortion ...next off if a baby survives abortion ,it should be given all possible chances to survive.the parent that tried to abort the child should not be given the child because they did not want it and does not deserve the child...If a child survives an abortion it should not be killed,that is murder,and so is abortion.I am sure there are extreem circumstances where maybe an abortion is necessary..but i cannot judge that..There have been cases where the mother was pregnant due to a violet rape,and that might be a reason but i could maybe understand why the mother would want an abortion but that does not say it is right but it is understandable..I actually see no other reason to ever have an abortion at all..there is birth control everywhere and if a woman is careless & sleeping around or gets pregnant and does not want it that is not a reason to abort...
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
18 Oct 08
I believe that unless the baby is in the fallopian tube and the only way to save the mother is to remove him or her, there is no reason for abortion. Even women who have cancer can deliver early and resume their treatment. As for rape, my adopted sons were the product of rape.
Now I do believe the only reason the woman should get the baby back is if she was dragged or forced to have the abortion, otherwise it should go to the parent who did not want the abortion, or to a nice couple who are want to adopt.
1 person likes this
@slickcut (8141)
• United States
18 Oct 08
well we are in agreement...I know that being pregnant in the tubes has to call for abortion almost always..I just feel like abortio is a bad thing but as i said there could be exceptions such as being pregnanat in the tubes..I did not say that i believe in abortion IF a woman was raped,what i said was i could understand why they would want one,but if it were me and i was raped i still would not abort because i feel it is murder...
@shamsta19 (3224)
• United States
17 Oct 08
You know I watched John McCain speak about this during the debates. The argument here is not in fact the issue of abortion it is the issue of choice. I actually kind of agree with McCain's adoption plan but the only flaw is suppose this woman doesn't want to go through with the childbirth process in the first place? I am firmly against abortion but it is a woman's own right to choose regardless of what we think of her decisions. In that respect I believe Obama's stance on the issue is sound as he is more in favor of a woman's right of choice. I have to agree with that.
As far as this business about giving a child back to the parents who attempted to abort it is ridiculous! What is the point? I cannot imagine where this precedent has come into play and if it has it only furthers my stance against abortion! I just cannot stand against one's personal freedoms in this issue.
2 people like this
@Hatley (163776)
• Garden Grove, California
17 Oct 08
suspensful the only thing Obama did was to vote to not make another born alive bill as there was already one on the books, why would they need two duplicate bills, one was already in practice but of course the person ;pushing this crap didnt want us to know that obama waS not into killing off the babies who were still born alive, that would not have made a smear out of it. I wish they would give up all this nit picking. as for the babies, no dont let them go backto the mother who didnt want them, adopt them out to good loving responsible parents, and also remember Obama is not into killing the babies who are born alive.
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
18 Oct 08
I would rather the babies go to good adoptive homes or to the parent who wanted them. As for Obama, I think you will have to wait and see what comes up. If he is elected, then sooner or later, or rather in the middle of his term, you will know whether he was against the born alive bill, because he did not want the babies to survive the abortion or whether because it was a duplicate bill. I do think there is a phrase regarding a doctor who said the fetus was non=viable and later it was aborted and was found to be a real live baby, he had no obligation to save him or her and that born alive bill was drafted to prevent the doctor from letting the baby die. So either Obama did not know about that phrase or he did.
1 person likes this
@mcat19 (1357)
• United States
16 Oct 08
It would be nice to get the facts straight. A law was already on the books to treat babies that survived abortions. Doctors take an oath to save lives. This law was a duplication and not needed. So Obama wisely voted against it. It was already there. I'm so tired of these distortions that keep happening.
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
17 Oct 08
If you had read the links, you would have noticed that that was taken into consideration. And if you know what it is like at abortion clinics, you know there are those nurses who feel that the baby should not have survived, so they would let him or her die, sort of a after birth abortions. So this was to ensure that a medical doctor will make sure the baby lives.
@djbtol (5493)
• United States
17 Oct 08
If the baby is alive, you better hide it from Obama's people. I can picture the little guy coming in and breaking the neck of that baby. Then he would use his multitude of dirty political connections to have the doctor fired. The doctor should have been more intent on destruction. If nothing else, the doctor could have done a pseudo partial birth abortion and jammed a scissors into the baby's skull.
Ugly message? Of course, abortion is murder.
If they can keep Osama out of the room, then I agree - the baby should not go to the original parents.
djbtol
@djbtol (5493)
• United States
17 Oct 08
History simply must repeat itself. You reference how less that perfect babies, or babies that are too young (fetal mass) are treated as 'not persons'. That was the delutional lie that was at the core of the slavery movement, as well. White people were fully convinced that black people were something short of being a real person. How could any society repeat such a notion. It is also interesting to note that the political party that claims to be above racism (false) and the friend of every minority (false) is the party that advocates killing babies.
djbtol
1 person likes this
@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
16 Oct 08
I agree with your three options.
1 person likes this
@Yestheypayme2dothis (7874)
• United States
16 Oct 08
She gave up her rights when she decided to have an abortion in the first place. The baby should be adopted out.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
17 Oct 08
That is what I feel. If she wanted to have an abortion then the baby should go to another couple and her rights should be terminated or else the baby should go to the father if he objected to the baby and tried to get her to change her mind.
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
16 Oct 08
The only problem with the adoption system is that is really slow and there isn't enough people adopting and then the child could be put in foster care which will almost be like set the kid up for prison. Not to mention the foster care system in most states is way over populated with childeren allready. I am how ever against killing a baby that survives something that it isn't suppose to. Giving it back to the parent isn't an option because they got rid of it for some reason. either way taxpayers are the ones the will pay for it.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
17 Oct 08
I think that there should be laws to make it easier to adopt, more social workers hired that are for the idea, more support for the birth mother so she can make the decision. The trouble is that so much has gone into abortion, that they neglected the couples who could not have children and also they neglected the girls who did not have their family support by closing down the maternity homes so the girls had to stay home or move out to live in a crummy apartment or room and did not have the financial support other than a boyfriend who would maybe pay for the diapers and the parents were hounding her to get rid of it. If they went back to maternity homes, those girls who were in indecision, would have a place to stay and an education.
Another thing, I do not like abortion just because the children might end up in foster homes. It was like saying if in the likely event the father was a criminal, even though he was no longer in the picture, the children would become criminals.
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
18 Oct 08
The foster care system is used as a dump for kids that can't go back to there homes and so the state has to put them some where and that somewhere is in the foster care system. So that child who may not break the law will be with a bunch of kids who don't give a you know what about the law and they will influence that kid into believing the same exact thing and that kid will try to be like them. I am not saying all kids in the foster care system are criminals and that any kid that is in the foster care system will become a criminal I am just saying that kid will be around kids that are criminals and they may have a negative influence on him.
@bestwishes (27)
• China
17 Oct 08
I agreed with you.If the mother is forced to do that then she can get the baby and I think this is the best situation,after all she give birth to the baby.But if the mother choose to give up the baby,she should not be given the right to get the baby after the failure of abortion,because she is probably not prepared to have the baby.And in this case ,she is not likely to become a responsible mother,which is bad for the poor baby.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
17 Oct 08
When I had a baby out of wedlock, I had to give her up because at that time, there was no help. I think the law was that you could not get any financial help until six months later and that so if no one helped you financially while you were out working the baby would die. Now there is help, and the mother can give the baby away for adoption because she knows she is not ready or too immature at the moment to care for the baby. So things are different now.
And I think that if the mother wanted to kill the baby, ie. have the abortion, she should not get the baby back. Who knows if she will kill the child is he wets his pants or beat him up if he refuses to come in after dark?
@RedFeather (427)
• United States
17 Oct 08
first of all - i think the doctor who created the situation where an abortion becomes a born-alive...should be held accountable in some fashion.
if the baby IS born alive, only ordinary measures should be taken to help him/her (as in a normal, healthy, term baby - no tubes, surgery, etc.)
i do not think that the baby should then be handed to the mother who could not or would not follow through with her pregnancy - she should however be allowed to try to adopt her child, if she wants it - i think the process would show she was serious about it.
i do not feel that any measures should be taken afterwords to "terminate" - terminate is the term for the early ending of the pregnancy - murder is the word i would use for the other...
i know some people will be up in arms about this - i'm sure they are already in this discussion - but i always try to view every scenario before i "rule" - some case just don't fit the bill...
2 people like this
@rocketj1 (6955)
• United States
17 Oct 08
Pro-abortionists use the argument that a baby in the womb is not a viable life outside of the womb and therefore is not a person yet. I would think that they would be all for this considering that these "babies born alive" seem to be viable outside of the womb now. The whole discussion makes me so very sad and so very horrified. I am remembering some stories I have heard from the 80s about finding a semi-load full of baby parts! I don't think I can say anything more here! This whole thing is just too barbaric!
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
18 Oct 08
I think I read about that a while ago. I have absolutely no sense of time, it seems the more things change the more they stay the same. I cannot understand why people would be so heartless. But I guess there are those who do not regard babies who were aborted as persons and they would not regard those who survived anything worthy of being called human.
@dragon54u (31634)
• United States
25 Oct 08
I looked for something that would tell me that was a gross misrepresentation but the only thing I found is that he voted against it because it would infringe on a woman's "right to choose" (choose to kill her child).
I believe that babies that survive an abortion should be given to adoptive parents--there are thousands if not millions of couples who want to adopt because they cannot have any children, yet women kill their own babies when these people would be grateful to raise them.
