Does Senator Obama Understand Economics and taxing?

@bobmnu (8157)
United States
October 18, 2008 5:53am CST
Senator Obama does not understand simple economics. He is reading a chart that shows the top 5% are making over $250,000. I check with the National Taxpayers Union (www.ntu.org) and in 2006 tax year the top 5% was made up of people making $153,542 or more and they paid 60.14% of the income taxes paid in this country. In 2006 it is estimated by the IRS that they collected just over $2,000,000,000,000 (2 trillion dollars). Using these figures he would generate additional tax revenue of $54,126,000,000. His proposed spending (new) is $130,000,000,000 per year. He is short $75,874,000,000 plus the lost revenue from his tax cuts for 95% of the taxpayers. I see several problems with his tax and spending plan. 1. The top 5% make far less than $250,000. Those who make over $250,000are in the top 1.5 to 1.75% of the tax payers. 2. He talks of tax cut and of repealing the Bush tax cut on the wealthy. Which is it? If he puts his tax cut on top of the Bush tax cuts he will not get the revenue he needs. I think what he is proposing is to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2 years and then to apply his tax plan. This would mean a tax increase for everyone and and then a tax decrease from that point but still you would be paying higher taxes than you are now except for those paying no taxes and they would get a payment from the government. 3. He proposes an increase on the Capital Gains tax for the top 5% which are the people who invest and create new jobs. 4. He has stated that he would reduce the Capital Gains on small business - there is no capital gains for small business. Small Business is privately held stock. His tax plan is just what he told Joe the Plumber "to spread the wealth around" or income redistribution. Taking from the productive and giving to the poor and unproductive in society. This goes against the American way and encourages people not to work.
6 people like this
8 responses
@animeniak (425)
• United States
19 Oct 08
If he proposes the redistribution of wealth to the poor, then it sounds like the man is suggesting the socialism. Okay, I don't find it bad at all if there are actually some people who are willing to distribute their own wealth to the poor people or the charities, which I find it nice and it's really up to them. But why should the government require us people to spread our own wealth to the other people? Does the man not like the idea of capitalism? Why should the people be required to spread their own wealth to other people? To make the matters worse (I hope and don't think Obama is going more towards communism) why should everyone get the equal payment for whatever they work for, whatever their jobs may be? See how stupid that is? Maybe senator Obama does not understand economics and taxing, no offense on the supporters of obama.
1 person likes this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
20 Oct 08
He believes in giving yours and my money to the poor as both he and Senator Biden give very little to charity according to their income tax returns. Almost everyone is upset with the way the Government has handled Social Security yet they want the government to handled health care, education, and housing?
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
18 Oct 08
"He is reading a chart that shows the top 5% are making over $250,000." From Obama's tax plan on his website: "Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years..." -- http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/ And according to the Tax Policy Center, tax INCREASES only actually start at the top 1%: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html Your first 'problem' isn't one. "2. He talks of tax cut and of repealing the Bush tax cut on the wealthy. Which is it?" Are you serious? The wealthiest lose their tax cut, while most get an additional tax cut. Not exactly rocket science. Both ARE possible, you know. "3. He proposes an increase on the Capital Gains tax for the top 5% which are the people who invest and create new jobs." They've gotten special treatment under Bush's tax cuts; they can afford to give some of that extra money back. "4. He has stated that he would reduce the Capital Gains on small business - there is no capital gains for small business. Small Business is privately held stock." Wrong. They're not two separate/distinct things: "The taxable part of a gain from qualified small business stock is taxed at a maximum 28% rate." --Topic 409 - Capital Gains and Losses, http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409.html
1 person likes this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
20 Oct 08
For started I check my income taxes from the 1990s and form 2006 and found that while the income was very close the the tax paid was about $4,000 more under the tax rates of the 1990s. He has stated that he will not renew the Bush tax cut so our tax rates will go back to those of President Clinton. President Clinton said he was going to reduce taxes for the middle class and the middle class became those in the lower 25%. The very rich were those making $60,000 or more. He gave college tuition tax credit to the the middle class but the upper income limit was $60,000 (the wealthy). The basic problem with Senator Obama's tax cut proposal is his "spreading the wealth" taking from me and giving a check to some one who does not pay taxes. He is a Socialist and history has proven that that system does not work and leads a country into mediocrity. The tax cuts for everyone leads to prosperity as proven by President Kennedy, President Reagan, and President Bush and tax increase lead to an economic down turn as proven by President Carter, President Herbert Bush, President Clinton. Don't forget that Senator Obama is also talking of raising the limit on Social Security tax which is a double tax on small business (employer and employee). He is also talking of changing the way we levee taxes. In his famous Joe the Plumber comments he stated that he would tax the receipts of small business making $250,000. This means that the little cafe that Senator Biden talks about, that has been closed for 20 years, if they had 25 people for meal, Breakfast, lunch and dinner, and they spent the recommend amount per day (according to several local School District) which is $35.00 per day the cafe would have over $300,000 in receipts each year. The Capital Gains tax on Small business that your referred me to is the sale of the business or Business stock if you are a corporation. Bottom line is that he wants to tax the rich and give it to the poor in the form of a government handout which we have been doing since President Johnson started the War on Poverty. We have given trillions to the poor in government programs and what do we have to show for it?
@deebomb (15304)
• United States
19 Oct 08
I don't understand why a person that is smart enough and has a better understanding of how to get wealth should have to pay more taxes than the rest of us. If I were smart enough to make a lot of money and knew I would lose it I would just stop trying to earn more. I have a daughter that get a good bit of taxes back not because she payes any in but because she get a head of house hold credit. I'm not sure if thats the right term for it.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
20 Oct 08
One of the founders of the Income Tax said that you have to make the tax high enough to pay for government and low enough so that they would pay it. If you raise it too high they will work less or cheat on their taxes.
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
19 Oct 08
It sounds like socialism to me. Distributing the wealth is find as long as the individual rich person decides to give of his wealth to the poor or decides that he is going to hire some of them, put his own money into a college, buy books for needy students, gives a scholarship, donates money to Extreme Home Makeover, but for Obama to put together those poor who although working cannot make enough with those who are lazy and have babies not for love but to get more welfare is ludicrous. Taxing the wealthy to help the poor might seem a wonderful idea until you really look at it. It destroys initiative and it is not right to give money away to those who did not work for it. Disabled and handicapped, widows and orphans, and those who are trying yes, help them out, but for the illegals and those who are petty thieves and criminals, no.
• United States
18 Oct 08
Well it is looking like we may just have to wait and see huh. I have not heard a plausible plan out of either candidate as of yet. I do have to comment on your "giving to the poor and unproductive in society" comment however. Maybe you are looking at certain groups but I know plenty of "poor" people who work their butts off (especially truckers) and the economy would crumble completely without them, so unproductive is a major overstatement for a broad range of "poor" people. I don't disagree that their needs to be some modifications and stipulations I don't think people sitting around not working and collecting a welfare check should be handed anymore then they already are neither do I think the rich should have it any easier either but the blue collar workers out their do need to make out some way. That should be the American way after all they keep America running.
• United States
18 Oct 08
I think by "unproductive", Bob meant it from a taxation point of view. Not that they don't work but that they are adding to the tax rolls. But when you GIVE people money from the tax rolls, or any money that is not earned, it encourages mediocrity. The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. -Winston Churchill "If you want to feed a man for a day, give him a fish. If you want to feed him for life, teach him to fish. If you want to enslave him, give him a fish everyday."
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
20 Oct 08
Unproductive people are people who collect money and don't produce a good or service. When you look at who pays taxes (http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6) you will see that since President Bush's tax cuts have been in place the top 50% of the tax payers are paying more and more of the the total tax burden. Who are the top 50%, they are the people earning $32,000 per year. What is important is not what tax rate you pay but how much of the tax burden do you bear. Under President Clinton (1999) the top 5% of the taxpayers paid 36.18% of the taxes while the bottom 50% paid 4% of the taxes collected. In 2006 the top 5% paid 39.89% of the taxes and the bottom 50% paid 2.99%. That means that the top 5% paid 3.71% more of the taxes while the bottom 50% paid 1.01% less. It seems that President Bush's tax cuts cost the rich more than the poor and the poor got more benefit from the tax cuts for the rich. Do you want to go back to the Clinton era tax rates?
@iman3004 (123)
19 Oct 08
i think most of the leader doesnt know well about economics. that's why they have economic team with them. so you should see their economic team. do you think their economic team can solve your problem ? to answer it, you can see it by looking their track record
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
18 Oct 08
Well Obama likes to use numbers but you must be able to apply those number. You are right about the issue of is it the top 5% or is it 250,000 dollars or more. Obama has been saying 250,000 dollar so I must say that is his level, but who is to say that level could not change once he becomes President. Why should anyone believe Barack Obama when he says that he would give a tax cut to the bottom 95%? Where in his record would support the idea that Obama is the campaign of the middle class tax cut. If Obama hurts the top to help the middle will just at the end hurt the middle again. The top employees the middle. So let say if Obama does what he says he will do: Obama gives employees a tax cut, gives their bosses a tax increase, and increases the tax on the business itself, the company will return the favor with layoffs. My problem is we are debating which two candidates income tax plan is better, the big problem is the income tax itself. Choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. Income tax is still legalized theft, and what John McCain should have been campaigned on was doing away with the income tax and replacing it with a consumption tax.
• United States
18 Oct 08
Bobmnu, many of Barack Obama's ideas have actually worked in the past. In the 1990's Bill Clinton raised taxes across the board, but he also helped every American by keeping oil prices low so they really didn't feel the tax increase. Incomparison, McCain wants to extend the current trickle down economics that we have used for the last 8 years, with has led to the largest deficit in our nations history an economy that is in a recession, the scariest credit crunch this country has ever seen, and the vast majority of Americans say that they are NOT better off today then they were 8 years ago. George W. Bush actually increased taxes on all Americans due to his lack of leadership during our energy crisis (as stated by Larry Kudlow, when the price of oil hit $80.00 a barrel, he said that as a $100 billion dollar tax cut, Larry is far from a Liberal), and McCain's energy plan isn't much better. Barack will be able to save us money by using our added tax dollars to pay down the deficit, thus paying less in interest, and sending less money to our good friends in China, and Russia. But, I am sure if we keep on trying trickle down economics eventually it will either work, or totally destroy our economy.