Should women who suffer severe PMT/S have to list it on job application forms?
By ShardAerliss
@ShardAerliss (1488)
October 27, 2008 9:24am CST
Okay, just hear me out before I run off to hide under a table.
Female here, but I have to say that I have never suffered PMT/S. My mood is pretty much permanently cheery unless I'm very tired (as in just worked two hours overtime on the busiest day of the year after only three hours sleep) and then I can be a bit short with my SO.
I've lived in more than my fair share of shared accommodation with a variety of women. Some were like me, or at least they never let PMT/S get in the way of being nice to other people. Others though, well, they out and out revelled in it. They seemed to use PMT/S as an excuse to be downright horrid to most people around them, believing everyone would forgive them simply because it was 'that time of the month.'
Now, sure enough the hormonal cycle will do odd things to brain chemistry. I'm not saying that all women who are less than civil once a month are just using PMT/S as an excuse... but some women do.
What's my point here? Ever worked with a woman who uses her menstrual cycle as a) an excuse to be vile to her workmates (and even worse to the people below her) and/or b) a woman who will take three or four days off a month because of menstrual symptoms?
This never really occurred to me as an issue until I started a new job under a supervisor that DOES become horrible once a month. And she will always say "sorry, it was just my PMS." It's not exactly good for morale when the supervisor goes from being a reasonable (if scatterbrained) human being to a total witch once a month.
Now, if a person has a pre-existing medical condition that will affect their effectiveness at work they have to declare it to a new employer. It could be depression, stress, a tendency to migraines, a skin condition... anything that will have an impact on how well they can do their job or that the employer should take into account when delegating duties; i.e. someone with back trouble won't be given any heavy lifting to do, someone with severe eczema shouldn't be put on a deli counter.
So, if PMS/T can cause a person to take a lot of time off work, or prevent them working well in a team environment (or, indeed, supervising underlings) should it not also be counted as a medical condition and added to the list of things people should consider declaring to possible new employers?
Okay, now to run off and hide under that table before I get rotten fruit thrown at me for being a traitor to sisterhood.
1 person likes this
4 responses
@chameleonsdream (1230)
• United States
29 Nov 08
That's a tricky one. At this point, there's not even a consensus about whether PMS or PMDD is an actual medical disorder. It's been made such a lightweight joke in the public mind that few people understand how debilitating it really can be. Like so many other things, it is often used as an excuse for bad behavior, whether that behavior is snapping at people or being too lazy to come into work. On the other hand, it can have serious effects that affect the ability of the person to do their work.
I have a daughter in that category. I personally would not advice her disclosing it to an employer because a) it is not a recognized disability and b) it will affect the way that she is perceived. Instead, I impress upon her that it is up to her to manage the symptoms of her disability so that they don't affect her work - i.e. - to take her medication as directed and to be aware of her own cycle so that she's not inflicting her own discomfort on others. At eighteen, it's hard for her to take all that seriously, but I see some awareness of it starting to grow. She did recently sit down and have a frank discussion with her employer about her condition and asked to be reassigned to less stressful duties during certain times of the month. She was lucky that her supervisor understood and that her work is flexible enough to allow that. I suspect that wouldn't be the same in many places of employment.
I think your question goes far deeper than "should you tell your employer" and is more "should this be considered a disability?" I think it should - but I also think that it should need to be proven just as any other disability is, along with guidelines of just how severe it has to be to substantially affect your life and be considered a disability.
1 person likes this
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
30 Nov 08
Ah, you got right through what I was saying and found what I was TRYING to say. Thank you.
And I commend your parenting tactics, sounds like you have one mature 18 year old there.
@whiteheron (4222)
• United States
29 Nov 08
Well, first off, in most places people are asked if they have a disability but do not have to disclose that they have a disability.
There is a difference.
The fact is that having a disability, although the employer sometimes gets a tax break for hiring a disabled person and although it is illegal to discriminate against someone on the basis of their disability, does still sometimes reduce the job options available for disabled people as there is still subtle discrimination against disabled people in the workforce so many disabled people without obvious disabilities do not choose to share this information with their employer...
I do not think that anyone should demand people to share such information.
Second, if the person with P.M.S. is having a great deal of trouble with it emotionally it would be not just your garden variety of P.M.S. but perhaps one that can be remedied by anti depressants, diet changes, and/or hormonal supplements... That person should seek medical attention so that you and her other subordinates do not have to suffer from the P.M.S. by proxy.
For further information on P.M.S. this is good... Perhaps you can share it with her:
http://www.midlife-passages.com/page121.html
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
30 Nov 08
If you have a pre-existing condition that may prevent you from being effective in a chosen job, or prevent you carrying out certain tasks, you should (and for some things have to) declare it before you start a job... at least in the UK... much to a friend's great disgruntlement as chronic depression does indeed cause potential employers pass you over.
So should severe PMS that prevents a person doing their job (like so many other conditions that may or may not be curable) be added to this list of things?
And thank you for the info but I'm afraid I am not going to go into work and offer medical advice to my boss. That might be considered presumptuous.
@whiteheron (4222)
• United States
30 Nov 08
It seems that the rules are different here in the United States... where an employer can be sued and face stiff penalties for discrimination against people who are disabled.
Evem with your more strict guidelines for disclosure I still would not consider telling anyone that they should disclose that they have severe PMS. I would suggest that the employee have a wait and see attitude and inform the employer only after being hired if it is necessary to do so... meaning disclose when and if you have a problem as this condition normally has symptoms that vary over time and as it can be remediated with medication, therapy, nutritional changes, rest, etc. It is not something like the loss of a leg that will demand the employer to make permanent adaptations to the work space or schedule to accomodate the disabled employee.
I can understand your feeling about sharing the article with the her but must admit that I think that it would be a kindness and a favor and not a presumption to send the boss something that could help her feel better such as this article.
The fact that you know that she has PMS indicates, to me, a certain level of familiarity that, to me, would rule out presumption... If you feel uncomfortable sharing it directly, just causually and secretly leaving it where she might see it in an area where the women frequent at work might be helpful to her and also to other female employees there who also are having difficulties from P.M.S. It too me would be a kind deed for which there would be no punishment. I am from California and am in the psychological field so my view are bound to be different than yours on this. grins.
@p1kef1sh (45681)
•
28 Nov 08
Try this for size then. As a male manager with over 40 females working "for" me I was well acquainted with the myriad of "lady problems" that could be used to persuade me to go easy or understand someone having a day of work. However, some would not discuss it at all - they were simply "sick'. So what's a boy to do? Sometimes a female manager would come up and tell me that so and so was playing up because it was her time of the month etc. They would usually be pretty unsympathetic whilst I, with women of my own at home that have been known to suffer every month, tended to give them the benefit of the doubt. If they were off work a lot I would start the procedure to dismiss (medical retirement) due to excessive sick absence. Harsh, but it worked. Usually they came back. But was I being nasty or just mindful about what my job was?
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
30 Nov 08
40 women working 'for' you? I feel for you dude. lol
So, they were 'sick' once a month, every month. Well isn't that cause for concern? If it were a guy it might be suggested that perhaps he had a substance problem (as a friend of mine was accused of once).
Nasty or mindful about what your job was... I'd say the latter.
@p1kef1sh (45681)
•
30 Nov 08
They were by no means all "sick" every month of course. Perhaps the answer is that women should not be permitted to work in anything but the most junior positions. As soon as they meet a "nice" boy that they want to marry they should do so and then stay at home having babies and being fluffy. Perhaps at a suitable point in middle age they can return to work when they are more mature and less prone to debilitating monthly sickness to work in some more senior position - a secretary perhaps? LOL. I am afraid that there will always be those people male as well as female that will use their health as an excuse not to come to work. All that can be done practically is to manage it as best that you can. Menstruation happens and whilst it can be a genuine horror for some women we should not view it routinely as an illness unless it is medically diagnosed as such. In which case I would use sickness procedures to deal with it.
@Sheepie (3112)
• United States
29 Nov 08
I think there might be a different me for every day of the month. I am not keeping track of them, though. It's because at the time I am being overly sentimental, I think I"m being perfectly reasonable, so I don't blame anything on hormones. I have horrible cramps though and I get out of school for one day when I get them, so I think that would be important because there is no way I can work in that condition.
I honestly don't know how bad a woman can get when she has really bad PMS, though, but if she has a tendency to be a trouble to other people, she'll probably try to go for a job that requires less social skills anyway. I don't think a woman can become a monster though. I can't really say. I think my mom has constant PMS, and she's supposed to be in menopause!
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
30 Nov 08
Oh believe me, some women become heinous for a few days each month... though to be fair most of them are not too nice for the rest of the month.
And yeah, my mom had constant PMS when she started going through the menopause... oh were they fun years!
