Wow I Can't Believe How Many People Make Over $250,000 A Year
By mfpsassy
@mfpsassy (2827)
United States
October 28, 2008 11:50pm CST
After all of thier tax deductions. If they are small business owners they get to deduct ALL of thier businees exspenses INCLUDING PAYROLL, along with any losses. Now hopefully these "Joe The Plubmers" are also remembering to donate at least 10% of their earnings to charity to get the maximum deduction that equals $25,000. Now if they are making $250,000 a year I am sure they have GOOD health insurance so their premiums and co-pays and any other medical exspenses are also a tax deduction. Their is also that great retirement investment thing everyone thought was so great and now people have lost billions of dollars in. Anyway back to the point the retirement contributions are tax deductable ALONG with some of their loses. Get my point the more you make the more you can deduct. So unless you are making about $300,000 without owning a business you have nothing to lose. Now if you are a small business owner that employes people you would actually have to make nearly ONE MILLION DOLLARS to even come close to having to worry about being taxed under Obama's plan and the tax only applies to the amount over the amount of $250,000.
If people actually did their own taxes they would be able to figure that out. Why is it so hard for people to do the math and figure things like this out?
2 people like this
6 responses
@KrazyKlingon (5005)
• United States
29 Oct 08
Obama keeps saying that it's only the top 5% of Americans earning that $250,000 per year or more. Some of those sites that supposedly posts "true" facts say that it is a lot more than just 5% of Americans that earn that $250,000 or more.
2 people like this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
30 Oct 08
There are two different things that get confused. Income and wealth. John Kerry and his wife have great wealth Estimated at $626,000,000, but their income is only $5,000,000. It is still great bu they are only taxed on their income not their wealth.
If you want a summary of the breakdown of which income groups pay what percent of the taxes check out the following. http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 They are very good about taking an IRS report ant putting it into a very readable and accurate chart.
2 people like this
@mfpsassy (2827)
• United States
29 Oct 08
Hi Krazy
It is probably between 5 - 10%. I don't think it is much more than that. But I could be wrong. Generally people who make that much make sure they maximize thier deductions, because they know it will lower their income levels
Heck even Trump still gets loans to buy properties because of the deduction that can be taken for the interest paid on the loan.
1 person likes this
@mfpsassy (2827)
• United States
30 Oct 08
Thank you Bob for proving my point (in a sense)
I know it's not based on wealth. My point about Trump was he knows how to invest to gain the most back from our govorment Come on the man was rich then went bankrupt and now is worth billions. He did it all through taxes incentive and deduction along with govorment grants
Is the $500,000 for the Kerry's before or after tax deductions?
1 person likes this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
29 Oct 08
In the comment Senator Obama made to Joe he started by saying that the tax applied to business with receipts (per deductions) of $250,000 or more.
It is difficult to figure out who Senator Obama will tax. He talks about those making over $250,000 will see a tax increase. At this amount you have about 1 1/2% of all taxpayers. The Top 1% of the tax payers (making $388,806 or more) pay 40% (39.89%) of the income tax in the country. If he means the top 5% if tax payers (those making $153,542 or more), then they are paying 60% (60.14%) of all the income taxes the government collects. All the people making $31,987 (top 50% of the taxpayers) or more account for 97.01% of the income taxes paid. The bottom 50% pays 2.99% of all the income tax paid. These are IRS figures based on Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). A family of four (husband, wife and two children) would need an AGI of almost $25,000 (one income at $12.00 per hour) before they pay any income tax.
If you look at the IRS numbers from 2006 tax year (filed in 2007) http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6
I went to Senator Obama's tax web page
http://taxcut.barackobama.com/?source=sem-pm-fts-tx-search-us&gclid=CICuta_ly5YCFQkiagodpjF-xQ
and did the calculation based on the above family (I had to use and Income of $20,000 as that is what the calculator had) and they are presently paying no taxes. Under Senator Obama Plan they would receive a check form the government of $1619.00. A single person, making $30,000, would receive $500 tax savings. To pay for this tax savings those making over $250,000 would have to pay between $5,000 and $15,000 in extra taxes just to cover the bottom 50% who now pay little or no income tax. It will probably cost the same for the remaining 45% of the tax payers. So those making $250,000 or more will now be paying $10, to $30,000 more each year in taxes. These figures are based on income and family size only. If you figure in a home mortgage and retirement savings child care expenses and or college expenses the amount could double again.
President Clinton promised tax relief for the middle class and to get enough money he had to make everyone making more than $60,000 part the very rich class.
2 people like this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
29 Oct 08
It was late when I posted and in the post I stated that the top 5% could pay between $10 and $30,000. It should read $10,000 and $30,000 more in taxes plus they would pay $11,920 (for income above $90,000) more in Social Security and Medicare Taxes (currently paying $6705). Add this to a Federal Tax of $68,569 this person could find themselves paying a Federal Tax bill of $97,193 to $117,193 in taxes to the federal government alone. This would be 39% to 47% of their income in Federal taxes alone.
Should people be asked to take a pay cut of 40% just so someone who is not making as much as you can get a small check from the government? When you add in State and local taxes this person is paying 50% to 60% of their income in taxes. Why work to produce more jobs for people if you are going to lose most of the new money in taxes.
1 person likes this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
30 Oct 08
People who make $64,000 (25% of the people) or more pay 86.27% of the income taxes. If Senator Obama is going to pay for his programs he will have to tax the middle class. When Senator Obama first talked about taxing the rich he mentioned $300,000 or more as the rich. Then he talked about $250,000 and later mentioned $200,000 then last week Senator Biden used the figure of $150,000. After he is elected will they cut that figure in half again?
@mfpsassy (2827)
• United States
30 Oct 08
Hi Bob
Anymore $60,000 not even close to being rich. Heck $40,000 is basically poverty level anymore. I agree the percentanges are unfair and should be revamped. Based on that calculator we would get $1,000
But we also know that a lot of bigger companies are getting away with paying less in taxes than many small businesses and well off individuals. Somehow I don't find that fair.
@morgandrake (2136)
• United States
29 Oct 08
There are reasons to employ (hire) a tax professional and an accountant when you run a business. It is because the tax code is so complicated. A lot of tax breaks are little known, and it is easy to mess up the math. I know that the day, I start making decent money being self-employed (still a ways away), I need to hire someone to take a look at my taxes. With the way that tax law changes year to year, it is almost a full-time job keeping up with the changes.
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
29 Oct 08
I don't know. I was watching Lou Dobbs tonight and they showed Biden saying it was anyone making over $150,000. Biden may have made another slip of the tongue or saying something we aren't suppose to know about.
There's a reason they say never trust a politician. Even with the best of intentions what a politician says he's going to do and actually does rarely meets in the middle.
2 people like this
@mfpsassy (2827)
• United States
29 Oct 08
Hi Iris
I had to miss Dobbs tonight I had to go get my girls he is on at 4 here, $150,000 would be alittle more worrisome but how many people even make that much in a year. But you are right we will have to see what really happens. Hopefully they WILL find middle ground somewhere that will help everyone
@taripres (1499)
• United States
29 Oct 08
I like what ur saying, Shorty; these other cats, making sense also! I don't pay attention to all this mess goin on in the economy, I'm already bad enough, just focusing on my money! What I'm noticing is, the deductions do help! Your tax rate may be higher, but u pay taxes off what's left! I do my own taxes, I have a business plus I work. Last year I paid taxes on $5,500 after making over $30,000 minus all my deductions! So like u say, it's a big difference with all the extra deductions business owners have! Remember, the income after all deductions is what's taxed called "taxable income"!
Taripre$
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
31 Oct 08
The problem with Senator Obama is I don't think he understands what he is saying even if it is in a prepared speech. Receipts are not profits and wealth is not income. When Exxon Mobil reports record high income many people take this to be profits. I don't even know if he understands that Big Oil is not made up of a few men controlling all the money. Big Oil is made up of common people through their retirement accounts and IRA's or from small investors. Only about 5% is owned by corporate executives.
@taripres (1499)
• United States
31 Oct 08
Oh really, I must've missed that! Yeah, well that is alot of tax! So what good would the deductions do! I thought that was the purpose of giving a business the tax breaks, so they can have income! I could've sworn he mentioned something about that, I have to go to youtube and listen to his proposal!
Taripre$
@tdavis (117)
• United States
29 Oct 08
I hope you have a tax guy do your taxes. First, payments for the owners insurance and medical deduction are a percentage of his income. If your net was 100,000 you would have to show you paid around 12,000.00 in mediacl expences, other wise you get the regular deduction. Business write off's help but they work a lot more hours than 40 a week with no extra pay, have to deal with employees that don't understand why they have to work, they showed up isn't that enough. Retirement is like everyone else's the money you but it is tax deferred. The idea is that when you draw it out your income will be reduced so you pay less tax by a combination of deferring taxes from the present to the future when your tax rate will be lower. Besides, why should someone else care what anyone makes? If you make 200,000 a year and I make 70,000 so what, you made more. You make and have what you have by decisions you have made, the same as me or anyone else. Now let's talk fair and honest. Why should people that make more have to pay a higher tax rate? To be fair and equal should't everyone pay the same percentage of what they make. The Boston Tea party came about because of a 3% tax increase. As far as business deduction how would you like to be taxed twice on your money? Payroll is money going to workers who get taxed on that money, would it be fair or honest to tax you for what someone else made? If being a business owner is such a wonderful thing, why didn't you get a second morgage on your home, sink it into a business, work 12 hours a day for two years just to pay what you owe.
then if you worked hard and smart and did it right you get to give 36% to Uncle Same and 10% to uncle Arnold, then you get to pay a tax on the equipment you own. With all those deductions your paying between 50% tp 60% of your income to the goverment. So, with Obama's tax plan, if I make 150,000 and you make 50,000 and after the "TAX REFUND" coupled with your lower tax rate you will make about 2 to 3 thousand more than I will. What is wrong with this picture? You work 40 hours a week, two days off, you don't have all the paperwork or worries. You have taken very little or no risk. Why would anyone work hard, if you can make more hardly working. In closing it has been said that demoracy will work, until the masses find that they can vote themselves money from the treasury, democracy is doomed. Last count 40% of Americans do not pay income taxes, and will get a tax refund (welfare)check from me. At least say thank you.
1 person likes this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
29 Oct 08
This is a good post except that you forgot to mention a couple of key points. First you as the owner are the last one paid. Second, you only get paid if there is money left over. Many times the owner makes less money than the workers. Yet you are taking all the risk. Why do you think it is unfair to share your money with someone who is not working and is taking no risk. What are you a hard working Capitalist??
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@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
30 Oct 08
No matter what type of tax you have there has to be limits placed on the government spending. One suggestion was to connect the tax rate to the Gross National Product (GNP) which is the total of all the goods and services produced in this country. As the economy grows the tax would go up and as the economy goes down the tax goes down. This would prevent the government for just raising taxes any time they want to start a new program. To start a new program they would have to cut some other programs.
I would not trust a tax man from the IRS because when you call the IRS the first thing they tell you is that their advice is not legally binding.
2 people like this
@mfpsassy (2827)
• United States
29 Oct 08
Hi Tdavis
I trust tax "guys" just as little as I trust anyone running for a political position in our govorment. I personally recommend finding someone who works for the IRS who is willing to give you tax advice because in most cases they have to do it for free and can still be held responsible for mistakes
For working individuals who have medical bills and/or health insuance premiums the percentage for married couples is 7.5% of thier income that means any of thier exspenses over, $7,500 if they earn $100,000, are tax deductable, if they itemize.
As for retirement plans yes they are tax deferred but you are given a tax deduction for contibutions each year you contribute. So take that amount and put it away to cover the taxes when you are willing to cash it out. Not to mention if your retirement has taken a big enough hit you can claim at least part of your losses
I do agree with you that the percentages need to be evened up. It would still tax the rich, but on a more even field.
My point was businesses get a lot more tax credits and deductions than the working class. Is that fair? I don't get to claim a depreciated value on my house or the "equipment" I need to keep my home and property maintained. I didn't get to deduct my rental payments when I use to rent a house.
Our AIG was basically $40,000 our return or refund was $4,000. 10% of what our income was. Most people pay 15% - 20% or more in total in taxes, not just federal taxes
Obviously some people do want the headache of being a business owner or the wouldn't do it.
Why is no one hollering about single people or married couples with no children having to pay higher taxes?
1 person likes this