The fair distribution of wealth
By KLVentures
@KLVentures (119)
United States
October 31, 2008 1:47pm CST
With the election a couple of days off, I want to ask the Obama supporters what will be the fair distribution of wealth?
I will illustrate the current distribution of wealth for a small business owner in the state of Maine. I am not an accountant but I am a small business owner that does his own taxes so I believe all of these figures to be accurate but there may be small variances.
For this illustration John Doe has built his own business up from scratch over the course of 20 years. He is married and has an adjusted income (after personal, child etc... deductions) of $350,000.
1. For federal income tax he pays 10% on the first $8025, 15% on the next $24525, 25% on the next $46300, 28% on the next $85700, and 33% on the next $185450. This would be a grand total of $100,528.50
2. For Maine state income tax, he pays 2% on the first $4750, 4.5% on the next $4700, 7% on the next $9500, and 8.5% on the next $331050. This would be an additional $29110.75
3. For Social Security he would pay 12.4% on his first $106,800. This would be an additional $13243.20
4. For medicare tax he would pay 2.9% on $350000. This would be an additional $10150.
5. He owns a $350,000 home at the average Maine property tax rate of 1.03%. This would be an additional $3605.
6. There is a state sales tax of 5% on his purchases in the amount of $30,000. This is an additional $1500
7. Since he is obviously rich, he takes his family out to dinner and the movies once a week ($120 for a family of four). This is entertainment so he is taxed at 7%. This is an additional $436.80
8. Every couple of months he takes his wife on a weekend getaway (let's say $250 for the weekend lodging). This is taxed at 7%. This is an additional $105.
9. His family drives 30000 miles a year and since he is obviously rich it is in a 15 MPG SUV. The fuel tax is an additional $950 in gas tax.
10. My fingers are starting to cramp from typing so lets say for his auto registration, license renewal, water/waste taxes, fishing license, hunting license, water fowl stamp, transfer taxes, dump fees, communication taxes etc... he pays a very modest $600 a year.
11. Oh yeah, due to the stress of all of this he smokes a pack of cigarettes a day and he and his wife drink a fifth of JD a month. That is an additional $740 a year in taxes.
If he was to purchase a new car, realize short term gains, or have any other good thing happen to him that year he would pay additional taxes on that. But with just what we have listed he would pay into the government $160.969.25 in taxes. This is money that he could use to create more wealth, jobs, and GDP growth if left for him to spend.
So I ask the supporters of Obama that want the "rich" to pay their fair share, what would be the correct amount for him to give away to the government. Is it $200,000 or $250,000 maybe $300,000 or we could just call it all the property of the state at $350,000.
I am really interested to know the real number. For the example above, how much should he pay in taxes. What is the "fair" distribution of the money he worked for?
3 people like this
4 responses
@rodney850 (2145)
• United States
31 Oct 08
KLVentures,
They cannot and will not even venture a guess because they honestly believe that if you make 300,000 per year and were taxed 70% you would still have 90,000 so you can "afford" it!!
5 people like this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
31 Oct 08
During the Clinton Years there was a simplified Income tax return going around. You were to place your income on the first line then turn it over to see your tax bill. On the reverse side was pay the amount on line one.
To many of the people if you make $1.00 more than the next person you can afford to pay the extra $1.00.
4 people like this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
31 Oct 08
most people see a small business and see how much you tak in and you must be rich.
even Senator Obama told Joe the Plumber that he would not be taxing small companies like Joe was talking about. He would tax companies with revenue of $250,000 or more. To me this shows he does not understand the difference between revenue and profit, income and wealth. All he understands is that you handle a lot of money and he wants some of it.
To answer your question in his ideal world he would take all of it and give you back a living allowance just like every other citizen because your needs are the same as his.
4 people like this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
1 Nov 08
I've been busy lately, kennyrose, but I see that you're just as stupid and uninformed as ever.
1 person likes this
@thedogshrink (1266)
• United States
1 Nov 08
Bob you got it RIGHT. Barack Obama is a member of the New Party. It's out there in black and white. He's a member. They believe in just what you said, a "social wage" for everyone.
It's going to be too late if we get Obama as President and a Democrat Congress -- it'll be too late by the time these fools wake up and smell the coffee!
If Obama doesn't try to move us farther left, farther into socialism, I will be stunned.
1 person likes this
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
31 Oct 08
John McCain thought a progressive tax was fair until he sold out to hard-right ideology:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2JPbQOHEkY
Now then, how much does it cost you to provide health insurance to your employees? Because there's a good chance the 50% tax credit Obama's tax plan would give you for that cost would offset (or at least put a significant dent in) the tax increase you'd get, as being one of the 2% of business owners with an income higher than $250,000.
Now, I don't know EXACTLY the difference in taxes, but since you seem to want to really get into the details, I strongly suggest taking a look at the Tax Policy Center's analysis, as they did a pretty thorough job. Check it out:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411749_updated_candidates.pdf
3 people like this
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
31 Oct 08
Oh, and I want to remind you and everyone else reading this discussion that the original poster is not a typical small business owner. Fact is, 98% of small business owners make less than $250,000 a year.
2 people like this
@KLVentures (119)
• United States
31 Oct 08
Ok, for the sake of argument say he is not your typical business owner and he represents a small minority of business owners. You still did not answer the question posed. What do you think his fair share would be? How much of his income do you propose the government has a right to take?
3 people like this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
1 Nov 08
This guy has a crappy accountant and his business is set up wrong. Were it set up correctly his personal income would not be $350,000. It would be under $100,000 like my brother-in-law's...who's business is worth 7 figures. Also, a personal net income of $350,000 is not a small business. The vast majority of small business owners do not show anywhere near that amount of personal income.
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
2 Nov 08
The problem is not with those who support this type of tax increase, it's with your (possible) misunderstanding of the tax codes. If you own a business as a sole proprietor and you claim all of the business profit as personal income then your taxes are going to go up...unnecessarily. There are ways to set up a business so that the personal income of the owner(s) is/are separate from the net profit of the business, offering liability and tax benefits. Even a cardiovascular surgeon, like the one who did my husband's triple bypass, is an incorporated business.
I don't pretend to have all of the answers but I do know this. Mom and Pop shop owners aren't raking in that kind of personal income, small and mid sized businesses aren't either unless they're sole proprietorships claiming net profits as income, which they shouldn't be doing. The tax increase will impact large corporations and the officers of those corporations, not struggling small business owners as John McCain would have you believe.
@KLVentures (119)
• United States
1 Nov 08
Once again there is not a single supporter of this type of tax increase that will answer the question. Apparently everyone in this country make less than $200,000 or more than $1,000,000 and there is absolutely no one in the middle. The example was an arbitrary number. Let's say instead of a small business owner, it was a cardiovascular surgeon which even in Maine (low income state) has an income range that extends beyond $400,000. If his net income fell into this range, what should he pay in taxes?
