This is really shocking! 8 year old charged with premeditated murder!

I agree that it is certainly possible for an 8 year old to formulate the mental processes required to carry out a murder alok; but I don't believe that it is right for him to be tried as an adult. The values side of things certainly need to be questioned and they do need to dig much, much deeper to determine what would trigger behaviour like this. (The fact that the boy was taught how to shoot a rifle is arguably one such "values deficiency" example) There was a legal pyschology expert on the news this morning that has stated that games, TV and movie violence etc are NOT a major influencing factor for an 8 year old child. They too were of the belief that abuse is involved. As stated above, it is speculated that there are far more sinister foundations behind this event and the uncovered truth will reveal all. I am convinced this poor child was abused and this was a last ditch effort to end his own suffering. I am sure that he did indeed know this was wrong; but he just wanted things to stop. I know I am being speculative also, but many signs are there already in my opinion. We shall see as time progresses what comes of it all. Thanks for responding.

Abuse may most certainly be there James. But i was looking at this more from the point at which the boy decided to take such an action, and what influenced him to do so. Rage will be there,but the reasoning of the consequences compared to an adult would be mush lesser. All said and done it is a sad thing to have happened.

On many levels I would agree that his ability to consider all factors would be diminshed as an 8 year old child, no question. But arguably one could say that this child's INABILITY to weigh up all options and consequences has reduced him to a pure mental cause and effect action that in a sense could be termed as animalistic. He feels threatend so he protects himself. Very black and white I know; but maybe when you consider his age and his assumed inability to think and function like a seasoned adult, then this may be just what it is. The only adult mindset here in terms of carrying out mature thought processes and actions may be his ability to effectively handle a rifle! And we know where this ability came from. The rest of it may just have been cause and effect and the desire to end his suffering/protect himself as I have shared already.

According to Arizona law, a child from the age of 8 years upwards may be tried in an adult court. Apparently this is not common across all US states though. What I find to be ridiculous is that the Father also taught his boy how to handle a rifle and even spoke to their Priest about it! The Priest is not sharing his advice but it does seem he approved this idea otherwise the boy may not have been taught at all. This is a very sad story and I am convinced there is some background motivation like a pattern of abuse that triggered this behaviour. Hopefully the courts will try him as a juvenile and get this little boy the help he obviously needs. Thanks for the response rkrish.

So I've heard riyasam, but when I searched in the beginning for a similar discussion nothing came up so here mine is! Yes, the Mother and Father were separated and the Father had custody. The little boy was living with him and his flatmate. It is still unclear what the little boy's true motive was but I am hoping that we will know sooner rather than later because this is a very unusual case and I am convinced that there is way more to it. Thanks for the response.

It certainly is Foxxee. It is hard for me to come to a conclusion on what is best for this little boy too because there are very limited facts available thus far. There is no question that it was NOT an accident because the shootings were apparently carried out execution style; but there HAS to be so much more to this and I hope we come to know what these things are in due course. A gag order doesn't help, but we will know eventually. This child definitely needs significant help from many angles and I hope that no matter what the motive, he does get it. Thanks you very much for your response and also for your other comments throughout the discussion.

Wow. Thank you for finding this and sharing it Foxxee! I have heard nothing more on this case since I posted this discussion and have of course been very interested to know more. I will watch this shortly..... Thanks again!

It IS very sad 34momma and I agree with your reasoning too. There HAS to be something more to this because I do realize that there are evil and twisted people in this world; but an 8 year old just doesn't up and shoot people at the drop of a hat! I have my own ideas of possible influences here but of course they are only speculative. In my opinion, either the Father and flatmate were abusing the poor little boy; or the flatmate was and the boy's Father was not believing him. I hope that the truth is made public in the end though because it is all so tragic and I am of course interested to know the outcome. And no matter what this outcome may be, this little boy does need our prayers and the help of many to come to grips with the brevity of his actions. Thank you for the response.

i think with Obama becoming President we should know how powerful our thoughts of intent are. If you want something bad enough you can get it. when you have a who country begging for change things will change. and i think if we have collective prayers for this little boy and our world as a whole. things will start to turn around.

This I do appreciate and understand lvaldean; it is just my curiousity wishing to be saitisfied by knowing more, as per usual! lol.

Arguably you may be right in saying that an 8 year old does not have the core ability to fully understand the consequences of his actions There is no question that these murders were premeditated but did the little boy realize how these actions would affect the rest of his life? It's a difficult question to answer at this point in time, that's for sure! There is a very long legal road ahead of this child and I hope that even with the gag order issued by a Judge; the facts will be revealed publicly sooner rather than later. Regardless of the reasning behind this act, this little boy needs all the help he can get; and especially pyschological assistance. I have heard about the sealing of criminal files when a child is released and then becomes and adult too. If it turns out that this little boy acted due to abuse or something similar then this is a positive option I feel. Thanks for the response lvaldean.

Part of the reason for a gag order is to protect the child from the public. In cases like this actually the less information probably the better for now.

We shall see in time sneezeklenex, but now that a Judge has issued a gag order for the case it may take longer than expected. I agree that rtying an 8 year old as an adult does not make much sense at all but the law is the law I guess! A savvy lawyer will probably end up getting this approach changed, but again we have to wait and see! Thanks for the response.

It certainly is, worldwise. Many questions entered my mind too when I first heard this story and especially in relation to possible abuse. I don't believe that all children are good and innocent either by the way; but no matter what, there are ALWAYS factors that lead to them acting in an evil or negative fashion. The issue here is that we have an incomplete picture thus far so we cannot determine what these factors may be. I do belive that there is way more too this and it is either that the Father and flatmate were abusing this boy, or the flatmate was and the Father was informed but did nothing about it. We shall see in time and all I can think at the moment is just how tragic and depressing this situation is. Thanks for the response.

Hi Pose. I find it hard to comprehend also. Time will tell what further facts will come out adn the issuing of a gag order bu a Judge may mean we will have to wait for some time though. It is anybody's guess at this moment in time what may have caused this little boy to act this way but I am sure that something will surface that may just explain things a little more clearly. In the meantime, I hope with all my heart that he gets all the help he needs. Thanks for the response.

Thank God it isn't an everyday thing to read about jessieBee! In the article I provided the link to, the FBO stated that there have been similar incidents each year over the last few years and that alone shocked me. I don't know how I would react if things like this were to happen more regularly! At this point in time yes, it is God alone that knows the entire truth; but I am hopeful that more facts will be released in due course so we can understand the entire scenario better. At this stage I don't think they have any choice but to hold and charge the child, but the adult laws aspect troubles me immensely. We will have to patiently wait to see what else is determined out of all of this and for now can only reflect on how horribly sad this whole situation is. Thanks for the response.

I agree with a number of your points reshadar; and especially that this child should NOT be tried as an adult! They have yet to uncover the full motive behind the attack and regardless of whether there is solid reasoning behind it or not, this little boy will need serious pyschiatric help as you have said. Thanks for the response.

It certainly is savvypat. I have seen documentaries and news stories about young children fighting in Civil wars etc and it is very hard to comprehend. What hope do they have to lead a normal adulthood (Asuuming they even make it to adulthood!) if their childhood years are spent in situations like this? I hope that this little boy is in everyone's prayers while they sort out the facts surrounding this case. We have no choice but to to be patient for now I guess. Thanks for the response.

Isn't it sad that we have to agree so wholeheartedly on a subject such as this one iyah. I am convinced that abuse is involved for sure but we will have to wait and see what the investigation uncovers. Thanks for the response.

Yes, Shar. There is no ignoring the fact that this little boy did indeed shoot and kill two people; and there does not seem to be any confusion surrounding whether it was premeditated or not either. We shall see in time though what factors may have caused this event and all we can do in the meantime is be patient. It is all so sad and I hope the little boy gets unlimited help whatever the outcome. Thanks for the response.

Oh.... you just havn't heard of it because it is rare for children to kill, but it has happened & does happen. Sad, but it happens more then we know. Havn't you heard of the Jamie Bulger case? The 2 year old who was abducted and then killed by two ten-year-old boys about 10 years ago? You do a research on children who kill, you will see some awful stuff I didn't even know was even possible for a child to do. Sad, sad...

It is a very sad reality to not be as shocked about things like this anymore. It has always been around but far less frequently than it is today and the internet also provides a means to share news like this far more widely than the mediums used 20 years ago. I am surprised that they are charging him as an adult too. Appraently the Arizona law regarding this is quite unique compared to many other states in the US; but it is surprising nonetheless. Having your nine year old Grandson face a knife is ludicrous! It is situations like these that definitely make us fear for the future. Thanks for the response marcia. And Foxee..... Yes, I am well aware of the James Bulger case which is equally as troubling. So many sad, sad tragedies that defy logic are popping up all over the place and it is so disheartening.

I remember the James Bulger case very, very well ronaldinu and the circumstances surrounding it were as equally disturbing. I believe the two boys involved in that murder have been released with new identities too; but I am not 100% sure to be honest. It is so, so sad to hear of things going on in the world like this that are committed by children so, so young. Thanks for the response.

I appreciate you reviving this discussion suruchi because I had given up on trying to find further information on this case and now I'm inspired to try again! A Judge did issue a gag order on the case which means that the media would NOT be informed of any progress, but I really would like to know what has happened since I started this discussion because there were so many unanswered questions. If I find anything, then I'll come back and post it. Thanks for the response.

Yes, thanks for the information.

My Sister works in the Pyschology field among similar situations dodo, so I do understand. It is not just a case of becoming desensitized to these things; it is a case of disassociation as well so that unbiased and clear decisions can be made that are in the best interests of the people concerned. It can't be an easy field to be involved in and must be heart breaking at times.

Yes, it is harsh that I'm not too surprised. But there are several reasons for this. First, I'm studying criminology. So I hear about these things a lot. Second, last summer, I worked at a shelter for women who were victim of abuse. Sadly, some of the children there showed signs of violence. And my fiance's sister has a stepson, who also shows signs of violence and he's seven. Again, yes, it is harsh. I wish I was just shocked at this, but for the reasons I've just given, I'm really. Hopefully they are reasonably good reasons. I'll leave you to be the judge of this.

It is beyond unfortunate SaintAnne and is a chilling reality that I wish I never had to read about. The reasoning is not known yet, no; but I am convinced this poor little boy was abused in some way. You are the second person to state a lack of surprise and as with you I find this sad also. To become even slightly desensitized to something only comes from frequent exposure to it so that in itself is depressing. I am not aware of the US case with the two boys you just shared, but there were two boys in the UK around that age who murdered a little boy called James Bulger (May God rest his little soul) and left him on some train tracks. They are now out of jail after being tried as minors as they were around the age you have said themselves; and have shown no remorse that I am aware of? This may be the same case you are referring to? I am hoping to find more updates on this 8 year old boy case as they move along with the investigation and court proceedings if it gets to that. I hope also that they will keep posting such information online as it will not be on local news here. The whole mental picture this event has set off in my mind is not nice at all and when more information is released I am afraid that the pcitures will certainly become even worse. Thanks for the response.

Are you wishing it was it one and the same like I am SaintAnne? Now we have TWO cases that are similar but at opposite ends of the world. Thank you for sharing the link.

I've heard of that UK case. I think I even saw a made-for-TV movie about it. So sad but this one I'm talking about is different. I looked it up and I guess I got the age range wrong (11 and 13). Here's wikipedia's version of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonesboro_massacre

If you continue on mylot using the same care, attention and effort as you have shown thus far floridakenny, I can assure you that you will not overstay your welcome at all! I would definitely like to continue talking about this case as further facts are uncovered as I am sure there will be many more angles to be shared and I am very interested to see the outcome.

Very true floridakenny. We have such limited information to date and the current investigation will reveal so much more than we could probably imagine. I agree with your point that this child should be incarcerated for a long time if he is found to be sociopathic or pyschopathic AND acted for little or no reason, because he will be a threat to society if he exhibits any psychoses like these. But at this moment in time; and even without all the facts; I am not of the opinion that it will be this straightforward unfortunately. I will be amazed if they do not uncover any proof of abuse in some sense, shape or form and if they do, then it will ba anybody's guess what direction this situation will take. I have had an interest is sociopathic and pyschopathic behaviours in the past and used to read many books and articles about people that demonstrated these afflictions. One common theme from memory is that even though they were compulsive killers with little or no remorse, they were still calculated, in control and knew that what they were doing was not right. The key word you used here was compulsion. This has yet to be quantified in entirety as far as I know too, but again, right and wrong is known but the compulsions seem to over-ride their ability to act on whats right or wrong as effectively as a normally functioning human being. I have gone on a bit as per usual! lol. I hope they keep providing updated information on this case so I can keep tabs on it. Thanks for the response and welcome to mylot as well.

Thank you for the welcome! i hope I don't overstay it. I have every confidence that whether their was abuse or not, the defense team of this child will try to introduce it. It is the defense "da jour". Remember the Menendez boys? Hopefully, a competent investigation will separate the facts from the crap that any defense attorney will try to stick to the wall. I also have a interest in psychology, more than a few credits under my belt, but still a layman. I have read many books on serial killers and the like, so much to take in, so much to learn still. Let's talk more about it as the facts present themselves.