Why do some people blame the church for Proposition 8 passing?
By katran
@katran (585)
United States
November 13, 2008 6:55pm CST
I have been trying to figure this out as I have been watching the discussions cycle around. It seems their are a lot of people outraged about it, and it seems like a great deal of that outrage is directed toward churches, especially Christian churches. However, correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think there is a very strong church presence in California at all. I have a friend who lives in San Diego, and he was trying to find a church in his area to go to, and he could not find one attended by more than 100 members. Shouldn't Californians be outraged at one another? I mean, after all, they WERE the ones that went out and voted, and they WERE the ones that passed it. It is not like churches were going in an tampering with the ballot boxes.
Frankly, I am appalled at the temper tantrums that people have been throwing about the whole thing. There was almost a 5% difference in those who voted yes and those who voted no, which is a lot in terms of voting, and yet from the looks of things it seems like everyone can't imagine how it could have happened! Over 500,000 people (roughly the population of Wyoming) made the difference in those who voted yes over those who voted no. Does it really make sense that the church is responsible for that? I just want to know what the logic behind all this is.
6 people like this
14 responses
@angemac23 (2003)
• Canada
14 Nov 08
Ok never mind..I know what it is...I sho uld of read the other posts earlier and it would have been easy to find out...anyway, I beleive the church is the blame for this law passing....the church put the stupid belief in people's heads that only man and woman can be together in marriage without sin.....To me the church is evil and it would not surprise me one bit if the did tamper with the ballots!
1 person likes this
@angemac23 (2003)
• Canada
14 Nov 08
Sorry, but I disagree. Anyone who thinks that gays are evil and going to hell and are sinners has stupid beliefs. Anyone who believes such rubbish is not a good person and they are the ones who are evil. It is the year 2008, humans should be evolving, not going back to cavemanish ways. We are all people and if two women or two men want to fall in love, there is nothing wrong with that. There are too many other bad things going on this world like war, crime, poverty, and a crashing economy to be worrying about who wants to get married and shouldn't be allowed to do so. People have to grow up and take care of themselves and worry about things are actually worth worrying about. People have to start focusing on the things that matter and start changing the world or this world is going to fall apart. Worrying about gays getting married is not doing this planet any favors. It's just humans look even more stupider than they have been since they have been on this planet. And yes, because corruption prevails on this planet, is is possible that the church could tamper with ballots. They have done worse in the past. How about picking up for priests that molest young boys? How about hording money when poverty is killing millions worldwide? How about building huge temples that cost millions while children starve? The list goes on and on. Religion may have been started with good intentions, but over time it has become just as corrupt as any mafia family!
1 person likes this
@katran (585)
• United States
14 Nov 08
You are making some ridiculous claims here. First of all, churches do not hoard money, and they couldn't if they wanted to. Their status as tax exempt institutions is dependent on them being non-profit organizations, and non-profit organizations they are, for the most part. Of course there are exceptions. Secondly, Christians are just humans, like everyone else, and their are some messed up people who claim to be Christian just like there are messed up people who are not Christian. Molestation is not a depravity exclusive to priests, and you should know that the church at large is outraged and disgusted that there are people who do such things. Thirdly, churches are some of the most charitable organizations in this country. If you lived down south you would know that after Hurricanes Katrina, Rita, and Ike it was the churches that went in and picked up the pieces, gave food and shelter to the displaced, and helped people rebuild their lives. Right now my church is housing groups from other churches all over the United States that have come to my area to help with Ike cleanup. It has been months since the hurricane, and groups are still being put on the waiting list to come help us out.
It angers and appalls me that you would only list the few and far-between bad things that have happened within churches and ignore all the good that churches do in this country. Of course, it is the few bad things that stand out and not the mountain of good that is more common, because no one wants to hear about the good things. Good things are boring. Good things don't create scandal.
@katran (585)
• United States
14 Nov 08
The church could not tamper with 500,000 ballots without getting caught for it, first of all. Secondly, I do not think it is fair to call a belief "stupid", because I guarantee there is someone out there who thinks your beliefs are stupid as well. Beliefs are values, and values tend to be different with every person. Just because someone believes something different than you does not mean they are evil.
1 person likes this
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
14 Nov 08
Plus many states had there own version of this and in every state it passed, Arizona voted to make a constitutional amendment in their states constitution protecting marriage.
1 person likes this
@katran (585)
• United States
14 Nov 08
Do you really think that a few influential people getting money could cause 500,000 more people to vote for it than against it? The campaign AGAINST Prop 8 actually raised almost 2 million dollars more than the campaign for it, so if money was really that important, then it would easily have been defeated. Plus, that sounds like hearsay to me.
1 person likes this
@angemac23 (2003)
• Canada
14 Nov 08
Before I make a post about this I want to make sure I know what proposition 8 is....
1 person likes this
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
14 Nov 08
This is not just a church idea, but a conservitive idel. Many non christians also believe in this.
1 person likes this
@katran (585)
• United States
14 Nov 08
This is exactly my point. Some people seem to think that any one who is against gay marriage must be religious, and therefore they blame the church for the fact that Prop 8 passed. They fail to realize that maybe some people just thought it was a bad idea for reasons that have nothing to do with religion.
1 person likes this
@celticrogue (450)
• United States
14 Nov 08
From what I had heard and read, it wasn't just Christian's, but all the other religions involved, plus a lot of money spent on Proposition 8. The one article that impressed me the most was one that pointed out the opinion polls showed Propostion 8 was losing until some group made it an issue over parental rights. I think it came up over a Massachusettes ruling of a child custody case in which one parent was in a homosexual relationship and won custody. (I think - don't remember all the details). So, if true, it wasn't about gay marriage, but a conservative agenda to discriminate against one specific group of people.
1 person likes this
@katran (585)
• United States
14 Nov 08
Hmm. I hadn't heard about that story before. I did know there was a parental rights issue involved with it though. Isn't it possible that there could have been a legitimate argument there though, and not just a religious or conservative attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes? Apparently a lot of people really believed in their reasoning if the proposition passed.
1 person likes this
@dtp882 (110)
• United States
14 Nov 08
It isn''t the churches fault, it is the fault (which I personally don''t think it is a fault)
but the "fault" of all the voters in California.
I personally don't think it should be taken to court, because The US is suppose to be a democracy, and we voted Yes on8
and it is "unamerican" to take it to court just because it didn''t go your way. The majority voted Yes, all of us should respectfully accept.
@rmuxagirl (7548)
• United States
14 Nov 08
I don't think the church persay is responsible for passing this proposition. I know the church doesn't agree with what it said, but like you said it is the people who voted yes or no.
@cloud_kicker_32 (4635)
• United States
15 Nov 08
hey there kat how ya doing? I personally was outraged for the Outcome of this..they vote yes..no one gets hurt.just makes gay people happier and able to marry..who is that hurting?? NOOO one!! But ohh nooo people are soo ignorant..so they make this crap up of Prop 8..and all these stupid people take it away from them..Noo churches really had nothing to do with it in my opinion.I think people are just looking for more blame..I hate to say this..but i realy think America is immature as hell..and we have alot of issues that i dont think will ever get over racism.(mainly african americans).and the prejudice of gays..and this reallly makes me soo sad..its time to move on and up with our country and people need to face the facts..they arent going away..everrrr..
@underdogtoo (9579)
• Philippines
14 Nov 08
There has to be some sour grapes when something they don't like gets done. So it gets passed, so what? If they feel that strongly about it then they should have done a much better job to campaign against it. Cheers!!
@tthom64 (535)
• United States
15 Nov 08
I've watched a lot of tv in the past few days and every time this subject comes up, they show all the protestors or talk to those who were against prop 8 but no equal air time for those who were for it. They seem to be assuming that the only possible reason to be for voting for prop 8 is hatred or thinking that those living this lifestyle are sinners.
Isn't it true that if this proposition hadn't passed that all churches would be not be allowed to refuse to marry a gaiy couple in their church? The people talk about the separation of church and state but they do not want to allow churches the right to decide what constitutes a marriage in their religion. If the law says that these marriages are legal, then no institution can discriminate against them on the basis of orientation.
Polygamists are a good example of this. In their church, polygamy is seen as OK, but the law won't recognize their marriages and they do not get the legal rights of a married couple.
If we are going to have equal rights for everyone, then we need to not force churches to accept any kind of marriage that goes against their religion and let the law recognize any kind that the church sees fit.
@celticeagle (168478)
• Boise, Idaho
14 Nov 08
Because the church feels it is wrong. People may even speak out one way and vote another. Who counts these votes anyway? And, don't believe all you hear and only half of what you see!
@dixiepeach00 (87)
• United States
15 Nov 08
I was watching the view this morning (I think it was actually yesterday's episode) and Whoopi was talking about protesting with some friends in CA for the gays. She was reading some of the signs that people were holding in front of a Morman church and I was really upset. They had sayings like "You have 14 wives, I just want 1". It infuriated me that they are tired of being judged and stereotyped but it is ok for them to do it. I know several people who are Morman, they all only have 1 spouse.
@JulianaRose (378)
• United States
14 Nov 08
the bible says gay marraige is wrong, nothing else, therefor it is relgious reasoning, and no other excuse.
@Bigcurt (26)
• United States
15 Nov 08
its not a church thing all "man " have the right to free will and choice those that are having all those protests and rallys to try to change what has already been decided are just a bunch of our apples and are looking to take their frustrations out on anyone or thing ... you look on the news and here pops up a "former morman" and he actually has the ardasity to say that the church is wrong and he for that he denounces his religion but the thing is that the church may have ran adds to fight the proposition but in the end the people had the last say so the choice was ours as a people and thats that