William Ayers
By pauld43
@pauld43 (194)
United States
November 14, 2008 11:38pm CST
Is William Ayers the bad guy that the right has painted him to be. After seeing excerpts from the Good Morning America interview I am seeing him in a little different light. I am not calling him a good guy, nor even a decent guy, but I don't think he is in a class with the terrorist that we face today. I lean hard to the right and realize that Ayers probably leans hard to the left but I think maybe the right blew this a little out of proportion, or maybe not. What do you think.
3 people like this
9 responses
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
15 Nov 08
I do agree that Ayer's himself, in the present day, was blown out of proportion by the McCain campaign so that he could be used as part of their campaign of fear. The Weathermen were a very radical group who took protesting against the war in Vietnam to an unacceptable level and I in no way support what they did nor Ayer's participation in their activities. He is, however, a free man and I have not read or heard anything to indicate that his radicalism goes beyond what he teaches in the classroom or writes in books.
2 people like this
@thedogshrink (1266)
• United States
15 Nov 08
You wrote: "...and I have not read or heard anything to indicate that his radicalism goes beyond what he teaches in the classroom or writes in books."
Are you kidding? That makes it OK? He can teach his students to fight against the government and write books about it and dedicate those books to known, convicted assassins, but that's OK?? as long as he is no longer actively doing it himself?????
Spall, I have to say, even tho I know you voted for Obama, I still am really surprised to see that you are supporting Ayers. The question asked here wasn't should Obama be guilty by association, but was Ayers really as bad as they say he was back then? And the answer to that question can ONLY be YES, as I am sure you know.
The man should have no more rights or recognition than any other terrorist.
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
15 Nov 08
Is he teaching the fundamentals of bomb building or is it his philosophy you object to? I don't know much about what he's teaching but I'm sure I would most likely not be in favor of it...just as I'm not in favor of what the liberals at the University of California at Berkeley and at many other colleges are teaching. But, radical thought is not a crime.
"Spall, I have to say, even tho I know you voted for Obama, I still am really surprised to see that you are supporting Ayers."
I've made it clear a couple of times that I don't support or agree with what Ayers did 40 years ago but I do agree that his actions back then are not relevant today when it comes to a political campaign.
"The question asked here wasn't should Obama be guilty by association, but was Ayers really as bad as they say he was back then? And the answer to that question can ONLY be YES, as I am sure you know."
Of course I agree that, yes, he was as bad as they say he was back then but that wasn't exactly the question asked at the top. To quote part of it
I don't think he is in a class with the terrorist that we face today. I lean hard to the right and realize that Ayers probably leans hard to the left but I think maybe the right blew this a little out of proportion, or maybe not. What do you think.
In the context of this question, I agree that the Bill Ayers of today has been blown out of proportion as a campaign strategy. There *are* variations of terrorists...car bombers...those who blow themselves up...and the more organized groups who seek to blow up buses, buildings and trains. Ayers DID participate in terrorist activities...but again it was over 40 years ago and he poses no overt or covert threat to society now. The McCain campaign definitely did, in my opinion, blow the present day Bill Ayers way out of proportion in order to instill a fear of Barack Obama by association.
Just to make sure we're on the same page here. I didn't like Ayers then, I don't like him now. Do I believe that he's currently a threat to anyone's life or property? No. Would I buy his books? No. Does he have the right to publish his views regardless of how objectionable they are? Yes.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
15 Nov 08
Ayers ran a terrorist group. He was not convicted, got off on technicalities and shoddy procecution but he was non the less, a TERRORIST, who ran a TERRORIST organization.
I am one who fully supports the rights granted in the second amendment. There are apropriate situations that warrent the use of organized or unorganized citizen militia for defense of a free state, the people and the U.S. constitution. The weathermen were quite far outside those remedies.
I saw someone in here mention that Ayers did not actualy kill anyone, just his group and called it "guilt by assosiation. This is equivelent to saying that Though Bin Ladin runs Al quieda, he didn't actualy kill anyone so he isn't a terrorist.
2 people like this
@Barb42 (4214)
• United States
16 Nov 08
"I saw someone in here mention that Ayers did not actualy kill anyone, just his group and called it "guilt by assosiation."
xfahctor, I was the on that said part of the above. Clarus is the one who said it was 'guilt by association'. Here is my quote:
"He thinks he did no wrong because "I didn't kill anyone". Well, his organization did and he helped do some of the same things; he just happened not to kill anyone. It could have gone differently. He isn't repentant of what he did wrong. In fact, again, he repeated he didn't do enough. A person like this, to me, is very dangerous."
I believe he is indeed an unrepentant terrorist. As someone else said, it was all botched up; therefore, he wasn't punished for his crimes. That doesn't make him innocent by any stretch of the imagination.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
15 Nov 08
What I think William Ayers is can be summed up in one word - IRRELEVANT! Obviously, few people cared before the election and I don't think any more care now. Hopefully we won't hear any more about him for awhile, but unfortunately if God tells Sarah to plow through an open door in 2012 we'll probably hear her screeching about "Pallin' around with terrorists" a few more times...lol!
Annie
1 person likes this
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
15 Nov 08
"Obviously, few people cared before the election"
As someone who supports the right of civilian constitutional redress, I am one who cared long before the election. The weathermen were domestic terrorists. Period. they acted on ilegitimate targets and persons and did not act as organized or unorganized militia within constitutional remedey.
3 people like this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
15 Nov 08
The key word in your statement, x, is "were". Yes, I agree that they were terrorists 40 years ago. They were at war with the government and those who supported the war and what they did was wrong. I don't agree that his actions then are relevant to anything current...except that his history made him handy to use in the promotion of fear.
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@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
15 Nov 08
He doesn't think that bombing the capitol, the pentagon, or a police station are violent acts. He's proud of bombing these places and continues to insist that it was right and he should have done more. I can understand the people who want to believe that Obama doesn't share his views, but I can't understand anyone who doesn't see this man and his actions as terrorist.
2 people like this
@thedogshrink (1266)
• United States
15 Nov 08
No, it wasn't blown out of proportion. I saw parts of that interview and sure, he sounds almost "normal". He is very intelligent and well educated. But how can I say this nicely -- I can't: HE LIED![](/Content/images/emotes/angry.gif)
The Weathermen DID indeed kill people.
They bombed the home of a judge trying a case of a Black Panther, at NIGHT, while he, his wife, and children were asleep. They put 4 bombs, covering the front and back doors, as well as the car by the gas line. I heard that straight from the mouth of the man who was a 9 yr old boy asleep in that house that night. They didn't kill that family, but it sure is hard to think they weren't trying to kill them, setting 4 bombs, one near a gas source, and the rest blocking the doors.
I heard an interview of the FBI agent who infiltrated their group, and he said that Ayers was the one who taught him about fixing the bombs and suggested putting in staples and other sharp metal, "to kill and hurt more people". Once, when they were discussing a particular spot they planned to bomb, this agent pointed out that there would be a good chance of someone getting killed if they put the bomb there -- Ayers' reply was in a revolution, sometimes innocent people have to die.
There was TONS of evidence against him. The only reason he didn't go to jail was because of some improper handling of his case, wire tapping and such, by the FBI -- but there was never any doubt that he was guilty; he got off on a technicality. He has said he is guilty. He stomped on the US flag, saying "guilty as hell, free as a bird! What a great country!"
I think 7 police officers were killed in one bombing, and another police officer in a separate bombing.
He painted such a pretty picture, saying the atrocities were done by our government, in the Vietnam war. He claimed they had the right to behave that way, because of our government.
Now, that would be true, if the government were stomping our rights, taking away our Constitution. But that is NOT an excuse for the kind of violence this man participated in and LED, just because they didn't like our government's policy.
One of his more recent books was dedicated to a list of 100 "political prisoners" -- one of them was Sirhan Sirhan, the man who killed Senator Bobby Kennedy on national tv, in front of the world, including school children (I was one -- 12 yrs old).
I don't know how old you are, but I was around 14,15 in 1970. I didn't pay a lot of attention to the news at that time and I don't remember very much specific details from back then. One thing I do remember was the fear. It was a scary time to grow up. DO you remember the way the nation was after 9/11? Everyone on pins and needles, wondering if there were more attacks coming that day? Well I wouldn't say it was quite as bad as the actual day of 9/11, but the few weeks after, yeah, it was always scary. Not just because of the Weathermen, but all the people like them. The Weathermen, Black Panthers, so many. Constant protests and always violence. When I was a teenager, I was not allowed to go to football games of our school, except when I was a cheerleader (because we were on our own bus and with teachers). When my younger siblings were in high school, they were allowed such normal activities, but when I was in high school my parents were too afraid to let me go to such things because of constant racial violence and war protests that was fueled by people like Ayers. My parents were not overly strict in general, just the average strictness for that time period, but things were really scary in this country.
Believe me, we weren't making things up, nor were we making a lot of fuss for nothing.
I heard several reporters and politicians actually say they would not shake hands with Bill Ayers under any circumstances, much less serve on a board with him. To be honest, people didn't make enough over Bill Ayers and Obama.
Imagine if McCain was an "acquaintance" with someone who ran a group that blew up abortion clinics and threatened and bombed the homes of abortionists -- for the same reason that Ayers did what he did: they didn't like the policy of the government (allowing abortions).
Can you imagine how the media would go totally nuts over that?? I am vehemently against abortion, but I DETEST someone bombing clinics or people who perform abortions.
I see no reason for any American to have anything to do with Ayers and his wife (also a terrorist).
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2 people like this
@murderistic (2278)
• United States
15 Nov 08
According to my dad, Ayers wasn't anti-war, he was pro-communist. As for my views about him... well, I'd have to read his book to make any comments about that. I'm all for peaceful protesting but I don't think bombing the capital is considered peaceful, whether anyone gets hurt or not. I do think that he has had enough punishment for his actions and that we should really stop judging him.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
15 Nov 08
"I do think that he has had enough punishment for his actions"
Are you joking? Seriously, are you joking?????? He never served a day for his crimes and he now holds position as a tenured professor, how is that POSSIBLY enough punishment for murder????
1 person likes this
@thedogshrink (1266)
• United States
16 Nov 08
You've misunderstood about Ayers and the Weathermen. Their plan was to overthrow the government. They WERE trying to start a war.
@murderistic (2278)
• United States
15 Nov 08
I'm sorry but none of this "evidence" seems very convincing to me, it seems like speculation. And I also disagree with relating Ayers to Bin Laden, Ayers was protesting a war and Bin Laden was starting one. Of course the bombings were terrible and I don't think that they were warranted, but I also don't think that the Vietnam war was warranted either. Yes, Ayers committed terrorist acts, and he did take a radical approach to protesting the war. Am I going to sit here and call him a bad person and wish that he was arrested? No, because then I'd also have to wish the same for all of those in the government who wrongfully sent our troops into North Vietnam to kill innocent people. There is a reason why Ayers was never prosecuted and there is a reason why both republicans and democrats didn't mind being on his school committee. I haven't investigated the full extent of these reasons but I honestly am not interested enough in the subject to do so. I have two term papers to write and lots of reading to do in other subjects.
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@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
15 Nov 08
I think he is trying to clean up his reputation so that his friendship with Obama is not so controversial. Could be Obama has asked his buddy to do that for him.
@lvaldean (1612)
• United States
16 Nov 08
William Ayers will always be a domestic terroristm, because he still celebrates his past. He will always be unrepentant of his acts. He will always be anti-government. He is an artifact, a specimen, a remnant of our past. He is representative of the worst of us from that era.
As the saying goes "you can put lipstick on a pig......"
William Ayers is also highly intelligent. He is well read. He is well educated.
He also never paid for his crimes.
I don't know, doubt that any of us ever will, what the full extent of his association with Obama has been. I suspect it is little to nothing. I suspect it has been blown far out of proportion.
@Barb42 (4214)
• United States
15 Nov 08
He thinks he did no wrong because "I didn't kill anyone". Well, his organization did and he helped do some of the same things; he just happened not to kill anyone. It could have gone differently. He isn't repentant of what he did wrong. In fact, again, he repeated he didn't do enough. A person like this, to me, is very dangerous. I felt he was 'adding to' things. For instance when asked about his and Obama's relationship, he said he knew him well, and he DID come to his house that day, but, then 'he probably went to another 100 houses that day'. I think he was skirting the issue. I guess time will tell if he and Obama are as close as most people think they really are.
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
15 Nov 08
"He thinks he did no wrong because "I didn't kill anyone". Well, his organization did and he helped do some of the same things; he just happened not to kill anyone."
More guilt by association. I could use the same logic to demonize all Christians, because the 'organization' has committed atrocities like the Crusades, Inquisition, etc. Does that mean all Christians are also "very dangerous" as you say of Ayers?
Read very carefully:
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"It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier," said former Illinois state Republican Rep. Diana Nelson, who worked with both Obama and Ayers over the years. "It's ridiculous. There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It's nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It's so silly."
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@thedogshrink (1266)
• United States
15 Nov 08
Clarus, just because that woman you quoted is an idiot doesn't make her right.
It's quite, quite possible that there is no problem with Obama's association with Bill Ayers. BUT we don't know, because Obama refused to sit down and discuss it.
We don't know because he sealed up all his past documents.
It IS very correct to question his association with the man. It is very incorrect for Obama to brush it aside, as he did everything else he was questioned on.
Are you not old enough to remember that the same kinds of questions are always asked of presidential candidates? The only difference this time was the many people wanting to give Obama a free pass to the White House, which they succeeded at.
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