Seperation of church and state

Dfollin, If you have read many discussions here at MyLot then you know my position on abortion but the short version is that I believe in "pro-choice" but I believe the choice should be made pre-conception which, in most cases, would negate the need for abortion. With the developments of technology in the past 35+ years since Roe v Wade we have birth control that is above the 90% effective range which are available to most every woman and also we have a "morning after" pill readily available over the counter for women above the age of 18 WITHOUT a perscription and this pill is above the 80% range on effectiveness. Now tell me, with this kind of prevention available, why are we still killing over 1.5 million unborn babies EVERY year? My deduction? Apathy! They just don't HAVE to care because they have the right to choose! "More than a million abortions every year is a staggeringly high figure, especially when one considers that the number of unborn babies who die every year from abortion is higher than all American casualties from the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, World War I & 11, the Korean War, Vietnam, and Persian Gulf Wars combined" [i]Abortions 1.5 million/year Gulf War less than 200 Vietnam War 58,151 Korean War 54,246 WW II 407,316 WW I 116,708 Civil War 498,332 Revol. War 25,324 Total War Deaths 1,043,569[/i] Quote and statistics taken from this website: http://www.californiaprolife.org/abortion/aborstats.html I agree with you on one point though and that is that all of these who have taken the life of an unborn baby, whether it was a scared teen or a Dr. performing an abortion, will in fact face God and account for their actions and guess what? Every single baby murdered will be there as their accusers!

Are you really saying that Christians and other spiritually minded people should leave our convictions home when we go to vote? What rubbish! Separation of Church and State is not a muzzle for Christians and if you've decided to muzzle yourself using it as an excuse, well, that is up to you, but all you are doing is silencing the Light of Christ within you.

I am a Christian too, I really have no right to judge others for what they do. They will eventually be judged for their actions and I will hve nothing to do with it. The abortion issue is a hot topic, different views. Personally I am against, but if a women chooses to have one, I am not going to condemm her for it. She will have to face what she has one sometime in her life. As for late term abortions, that should be outlawed, that is plain out murder.

You are a smart lady with a good head on your shoulders and a great example for what a christian should be! I am not a christian but I am a very spiritual person and it has always perplexed me as to just why religion comes into play so much with politics. It shouldn't as we have so very many different religions in our country. One should vote for the person and not their religious beliefs. If we all just paid attention to our own hearts and stopped trying to be moral menders for everyone else, the world would be a much more peaceful place. No one is ever going to be in total agreement on abortion, gay rights, etc. They are personal issues and we should just all back off and leave it up to God. Great post you have here and refreshing to see a Christian with an open mind. As of late, on here, I've read one too many judgemental ones using the bible as an excuse for their judging.

while I don't think that President Bush's religious or moral views played a part in his failure as a president, I wish people had voted based on political issues and abilities rather than religious/moral issues. I agree with you that religion has no place in politics. It underminds the whole concept of freedom of choice when it comes to religion. It causes people to villify people based on their religion which spills over into our daily lives and victimized regular people who have nothing to do with politics. We do not have a state religion so religious beliefs need to be left out of politics.

i agree. i don't believe in abortion unless there are extinuating circumstances but i sure as heck don't believe in bush for anything. he's about been the ruination of the whole country.

I am not a christian. I'm not a muslim or a jew either. I do believe in a higher power. I also think that people need to behave in a way that is socially acceptable, and, for the American society at least, was founded in the Christian beliefs. Killing, rape, lying, all of that has no place. It happens, but it also shouldn't. I do believe that the church should be seperate from the state. The country, America is again a big one here, has a lot more people in it than just the "ruling" religion, and here that is Christianity. Religion is a very personal system. I don't think that a country can be run with the best interests of ALL of it's citizens if those in power base their decisions on their religion.

Obviously the church and the state are separate. One is doing the work of God and the other is managing the country. Politicians can have moral issues because morals affect a society. People all face God and those who have done evil will face the consequences for that. What we, as individuals, need to do is carry out the work of good as opposed to the evil others do. That way, when its all over, you don't have a problem Abortion is wrong, by the way, a human being lives from conception, not when it emerges from the womb. Please remember that. And attackers of women are indulging in violent acts of abuse. Just pray and it will end up alright.

I think the church should not be one with the state. I think its really difficult if they go together. The church has its own authority or power and the state also has its separate authority. And with these to sectors separated for a long time a balance was created which prevented too mcuh abuse of power. The church must not become one with the state because we cannot allow too much concentration of one power/authority in just one sector. Its bad effects could actually be seen if you could recall how the Philippines was colonized by Spain and where Spanish Friars were the superior authority in the state. These friars or priests during those times acutally took advantage of this power and abused the people to become rich and to make people fear them using Gods name. We could actually see during those times that priests were feared by people most. Im just not sure if the same thing would happen if ever the church would becom one with the state in this period but i think to protect religion it is really necessary to separate it with the state.

I to believe that there should be a seperation of Church ans State. I'm not as up on the bible as I should be, but I do remember that somewhere in the bible it says that we should abide by the laws of the land. The laws of God will be the final judgement of the laws that are broken or not abided by in the eyes of the Church. If a women has the choice to have an abortion she knows what the consequences are to her physically, mentally, and spiritually. She should not have to contend or feel that she has to sneak around to have an abortion. DCMerkle

You know that as Christians we should always remember what the bible say about Authority. No one is given the power of Authority unless God ordained it. It is the role of Christians to obey the authority of God. When Jesus was on earth there were politicians but what did Jesus did. It did not abuse or talk bad thing about them no. He acknowledge them and teach them the right way. There is no way in the bible that say that the Church and the state should be separated. In the bible God says that give to Caesar what is due to him. There are alot of girls who are doing illegal abortions and dieing. It is best that it is legalized and these females get the best of health care and counseling. It it their sins and they will have to report to God. Why should one have a lot of children or even then knowing that their circumstances are not healthy and bring children in this world. I was once against abortion but if any government seems it fit to legalize it them let them because it is being done behind back doors and these females are not getting good careso they eventually die. As for bush who is a christian. You can go to my discussions and see what I wrote about Christians who are not showing the Christ In Me Attitude www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1796100.aspx. The word of God says that the thorns and wheats shall grow together until the day of harvest. No one is Prefect on this earth. The only sinless man who came here and die was Jesus Christ. It was because of all these happenings that God came down as man in the form of his son so that through his blood we can be saved. Nothing that is happening in this world is just happening. The world of God says 'So shall it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end'. All the best Kerry

Great point. I think that it would be great if everyone thought the same way you do. I do not go to church and I don't think that Christian views should rule of government, we are a melting pot and not everyone is a Christian; some are Buddist, Muslim, Jewish ect. Thanks for the great post.

The wisdom of the Founders has never been clearer, in my opinion, than with regard to the separation of church and state. This principle seeped into our political structure gradually rather than having a firm foundation in the Constitution--though via several "side doors," it has become accepted as Constitutional. Jefferson did us all a great favor by insisting that this principle be observed in Virginia and by encouraging its acceptance elsewhere. Otherwise, we could be dealing with established churches in many of our individual states. Imagine, for example, what the landscape could look like: Catholicism in Maryland, Congregationalism in Massachusetts, Anglicanism in Virginia, Mormonism in Utah, Judaism in New York, polytheism in Hawaii--and maybe Islam in Michigan? The theocratic governments that so-called men of God have established to correct the behavior of citizens through a religiously sanctioned morel code have often led to disaster. Men of God, being secure in their faith and intemperate toward dissenters, are often brutal toward nonbelievers--or toward those who believe differently. The only places where an established church has worked relatively well are countries where the secular power of the established religion has diminished over time--as with the Church of England in Britain, where the status of the church is now a matter of culture rather than having far-reaching impact on the life of the nation. Bottome Line: The United States is not a Christian nation, though certainly Christianly in its various forms is the dominant faith. Americans follow many traditions. (Which Christian group gets to decide what is right and what is wrong?) We are also in many respects a puritanical nation. In that situation, the imposition of religious dogma onto the laws of land is formula for oppression. We don't need that. We have enough trouble, as your experience illustrates all too well, seeking justice for laws already on the books. Thank you for raising this issue. It is one that deserves far more thoughtful discussion than it usually receives.