Salvation, Do We Need to Be Saved?
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
Thailand
November 21, 2008 10:35pm CST
Salvation raises a lot of questions. The first one is what do we need to be saved from? Is it sin? If it is then just what is sin? Sin is usually described as a transgression of God's law so where do we find God's law? If you're a Christian the answer is that we find God's law in the Bible, more specifically in the Old Testament of the Bible. Some of the things that we find there are pretty horrifying. If a child talks back to its parents it is a sin. The punishment for this sin is being beaten to death. There are many similar examples so let's beat a hasty retreat from the Old Testament on the whole and take a look at the 10 Commandments. There is some good stuff there but also some that is rather silly. It gets a little difficult to figure out why we should have no other God but the one speaking when we are told there is only one God. Ah, need I go on. The Bible does not seem to be a really good source to determine what God's laws are.
OK, let's define sin in a little more carefully. We and up with the problem that sin seems to have become almost a generic term. Swearing is a sin but what is swearing. If we look back in history we find that in the time of Chaucer and England swearing had the rather narrow definition of taking the name of the Lord in vain. That definition has now been expanded. A lot of what Godfrey Chaucer wrote about in the Canterbury tales would now be considered swearing. With such a flexible definition how do we determine how can we define the sin that we need to be saved from?
We can narrow sin down and restrict it to the concept of original sin. Where did this whole idea come from? The doctrine of original sin was first developed in the second-century by the Bishop of Lyon, Irenaeus in his struggle against Gnosticism. He was pretty big on defining heresy and also determining what punishment heretic should receive. Since a belief in original sin was not a part of Gnosticism they were obviously heretics and should be punished. Their doctrines certainly should not become a part of the Christian belief. The whole concept of original sin was developed as a means to exclude some beliefs from Christianity. When viewed in this light it does not seem to be something we need to be saved from.
The other question that needs to be answered is what happens if we are not saved. Well somewhere along the line the early church decided to embrace the idea of hell. Obviously hell was a terrible place that we really didn't want to go. How could we avoid it? Their answer was that the only way we could avoid it was to embrace Jesus Christ as our Savior. This became a method of conversion and enforcement of Christian rules and doctrines. Most of these rules and doctrines became a tool to force allegiance to the rule not only of the church but to the directives of the current local ruler.
Do we really need salvation? The answer in the end is no, there is nothing we need to be saved from.
1 person likes this
5 responses
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
22 Nov 08
What a day full of sins... Or is this a sinful day?
Very odd the themes that run through the posts...
I'll come back with more at another time MyLot willing... :)
Peace through accountability,
Blessings,
Sincerely,
Gary
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
23 Nov 08
May I ask a favor of you would you respond to my discussion in Writing a Book the title of the post is about; the Bible the Quran, the Torah and the Zohar...
Also you know this is the anniversary of the Assassination of J.F.K.?
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
25 Nov 08
Sure thing, wishing I had a few more points so I could paste that link in... Such is life and the reason I didn't provide the link in the first place. It sure is a good thing that I am a patient person, willing to wait for a time and time again.
http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1803366.aspx
That should do it, and I will double check to make sure.
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
23 Nov 08
I did a search for your discussion and can't find it. If you can give me a link I will try to respond.
@adnanezzi (243)
• India
22 Nov 08
hi there
i must salute you for the amount of research you have done for swearing.but i thionk my friend u r missing a point here u are going techinical rather then in spirit.
u ask about salvation from what u need to be saved from?
my view is salvation is to rise you from these wordly things to the level of angels, to make u pure , it has nothing to do with sins.
you speak about swearing as a sin
from my point of view let me put a secenrio in front of u and u give me the answer
suppose a innocent man is put on trail for a crime he has not commited.and somebody wrongly testifies against him and destroys that innocent man.
now my friend u answer me is it the man testifying against that innocent man is a sinner or not
god has made religion not for punioshing people as widely believed but religion to me is a way of life .
it is just like in militery school people think life is harsh there sometimes for trival reasons u are punished
but it is not to humiliate u but for the betterment of u
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
22 Nov 08
May I answer?
First flaw, an innocent man is accused, who brought forth the charges and why is an innocent man being accused? The person that wrongly testifies has committed the sin of false witness, false swearing and that is a sin and a crime. Having been the victim of such a crime I all too well know this scenario.
Who is then guilty?
You can not be made better by being punished for trivial reasons, we all need to be instructed and we need to listen for our instructions. If we do not pay attention damage will and can occur. I could write a lot about this topic and this is not all of what this conversation is about.
The punishment of the innocent is like being made into a slave of wicked people.
There are a few sins...
How can we save the ones that we love?
We have to be there...
@veejay19 (3589)
• India
22 Nov 08
Wow! you really have done quite a bit of research on the subject and i congratulate you for it.I would like to discuss more on this subject. I am a Hindu and in our religion which is actually not Hinduism but is known as Sanatana Dharma and is not founded by any Prophet or saint. It has evolved from ancient times and evolved through the ages into what it is today. It is actually a way of life and is defined by principles of living life through certain laws which were formed by ancient sages who meditated and reached certain conclusions which were beneficial for entire humanity. In Hinduism Heaven is known as Swargaloka and Hell as Narakaloka where lost souls, sinners are sent. Actually there is nothing of the sort as people come back and keep coming back to earthly life to pay for and redeem themselves from the sins they have committed in previous lives.This is the theory of reincarnation which does not find any place in Christianity and Islam.
In Hinduism birth is the result of unfinished desires and aims or goals when the human being comes back into a new body to work out his past karma. If he has done some act which is against the law then in his next birth he has to atone for it and redeem himself.If he does not and instead does more sinful actions then he will keep coming back until he has cleared himself completely.If he turns Godward then by surrendering himself he will quickly clear his karma but he will have to bear the fruits of past actions whether they are good or bad and the term for this is "prarabdha".
In Hinduism there is no saviour but great souls who in the past have redeemed themselves completely come to earthly life solely to help people and guide them to their real place, merger with the Godhead. Such saintly people though leading a life akin to the common man however are beyond the laws of humanity and therefore their actions do not become karmic.Whatever they do they do for others and are completely detached from everybody and everything. Krishna, Christ,Buddha,Prophet Mohammed are some examples of such beings.They are guides and it is the people who have to follow the laws and principles set by them to reach their original destination, merger with God.
@mxzero (28)
• Philippines
23 Nov 08
Yes of course, I believe that there are heavenly beings and fires in hell. There mere fact that the earth exists and there are a lot of wonderful things around that man cannot create, implies that there is an almighty being who did this. The bible is the only book who tells clearly about this things, the problem is there are a lot of groups who claim they are the true religion who will be saved by God. So for me i'l stay reading the bible and look for the true church whom i believe will save my soul.
@jedimind (200)
• Singapore
24 Nov 08
first of all, when it's said in the 10 commandments to have no other gods before me (God), it's referring to idols which the Israelites worshiped when they constantly sinned against God. anything can be your god you know. playing World of Warcraft till it becomes an addition and obsession can be one of your gods too.
i can't change the fact that you don't believe that we are all sinful and need to be saved. i just pray and hope that you will understand it someday. we are all sinful. your own conscience constantly tells you that you're doing something wrong when you sin.