Today the US Supreme Court decides if they'll take the case of Obama's...
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
December 5, 2008 12:36am CST
eligibility to run for president.
I hope they agree to take the case. Not because I think he's ineligible or not, the fact is, I just don't know... and niether does anyone else. That is a huge problem.
Some people say that it would disenfranchise everyone who wants Obama to be president, but that simply isn't true. If Obama was never eligible to run, then him not becoming president is no different than anyone else who isn't eligible. There are a lot of people who would love to have Gov. Schwarzenegger as president, so are they being disenfranchised? No.
Others say "the people have spoken", and that is true, but remember, according to our Constitution, the popular vote does not a president make. Actually, Obama really isn't even the "President Elect" yet, he is only the presumptive president elect. He won't become the president elect until the Electoral College meets this month.
It is vitally important that the question be conclusively answered before Obama becomes president. In fact, I can't think of any cases in my memory that were more important for SCOTUS to decide on.
5 people like this
12 responses
@davebrown64 (443)
• United States
5 Dec 08
As an American, it is my solemn duty and responsibility to respect the Office of the President of the United States of America and this I will do no matter who occupies that office. This does not mean that I have to agree or disagree with what the individual who occupies that office does.
Mr. Obama, you are correct, is not yet the "true" President Elect. The podium that he speaks from with the seal of the Office of the President Elect is incorrect. But, at this time, why should we even care? Do we think that the Electoral College is going to say, "O.K., the American people have spoken and they have voted and Mr. Obama has won the office of the presidency." But now it is possible that the Supreme Court is going to hear a case whether or not Mr. Obama is an actual citizen of the United States. Frankly, I do not believe that he is, but what are we going to do about it? If it is found that he was born in Kenya, then it is possible that the election becomes mute and we are going to have to constitutionally respond. Are we to change to Constitution to allow Mr. Obama to become president? I do not think so. I think what is going to have to happen is that he is granted the position and we are going to have to turn our back on the Constitution. But, then what do we do for future elections? Are we going to allow anyone who wants to run for the highest office in the free world, run, no matter where they were born? Is it possible that his birth was a technicality and really born on American soil?
What I think is necessary is for Hawaii to present a truthful document that states Mr. Obama was born in that state. No false documents permitted.
I guess we will have to wait and see.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 Dec 08
If he is allowed to remain in office even if it is proven he is not Constitutionally eligible... there will be civil war.... and rightly so.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 Dec 08
That is just hearsay.
If you went to get a passport, would they accept the officials of your homestate saying, "yeah, we have it on file"? No, they would require a certified copy of the original.
1 person likes this
@vellibiz (297)
• United States
5 Dec 08
I really dont know what to say to this discussion, but to express that we need to put all of our energy in fixing this economy, i believe he should show proof but dag thats not something we should be focused on right now, i think its vitally important that we get a grasp on what going on in the economy.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 Dec 08
He has absolutly nothing to do with the economy right now, neither does the Supreme Court. In fact, no one who has any part in this little play of history does.
Besides, what if he takes the oath of office then does do something about the economy... if it is proven he isn't eligible, everything he did while president will be null and void.
What would be worse on the economy, taking a little time to get it straightened out now... or wait until every decision he made has to be undone?
1 person likes this
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
5 Dec 08
Probly Biden would become president and then he would pick a VP.
But I am not sure..
1 person likes this
@irisheyes (4370)
• United States
5 Dec 08
I have a theory about this whole brouhaha which you probably will disagree with but here goes: I think that Obama is a very smart dude. First, a birth certificate request would have to have validity which the ones that were shot down it court did not have. You cannot force a state to release confidential information without having a right to that information. Obama also knows that the people making the biggest fuss over his birth certificate are the same ones that ran with the ugly, unsubstantiated rumours of Hilary murdering Vince Foster and McCain having a love child. So he's letting them have the birth certificate scandal. That keeps them occupied and out of his hair. He knows he can produce a birth certificate if he has to and he will when and if it becomes mandatory through the courts. In the meantime, his enemies are fully occupied tracking down the elusive Obama birth certificate.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
5 Dec 08
I know it's not my discussion but I love BOTH of your posts! I think you really might have something there with your theory, Irish. And, chameleon, you really showed that this will NEVER really be resolved for those who don't want it to be.
Annie
1 person likes this
@chameleonsdream (1230)
• United States
5 Dec 08
You know, I kinda like your reasoning. Add to that the fact that no matter WHAT he produces, most of these suits have multiple "fail-safes". Berg's, for instance, pretty much said "and if he WAS born in Hawaii, he may have lost his citizenship when his mother married a citizen of another country, and if THAT didn't happen, there's a rumor that he traveled on an Indonesian passport so he may be a citizen of Indonesia and then there's the fact that even if his mother DIDN'T give up her US citizenship, and if he WAS born in Kenya, then she was a couple of months short of living in the US long enough after her 14th birthday for him to qualify as a US citizen and he never took an oath of citizenship which he would have had to do if his mother gave up his citizenship when he was a child which he only would have to do if he hadn't established a residence in the US before he was 21 or 27 depending on which section of the law you read because a lot of these laws overlap but if we pick at it long enough, we'll be sure to find SOMETHING that keeps him out of the presidency!"
In other words, even if a court (or the Supreme Court) agrees to hear a case and decides in his favor, these same people will continue to say that it was all fixed anyway.
2 people like this
@callarse1 (4783)
• United States
5 Dec 08
Why are they deciding to take the case? Was it because as the other user said on here that there are claims that he wasn't born in USA? I thought he was born in Hawaii? And don't they have to be verified before they can run for president? If they didn't meet the criteria then why were they allowed to run? That wouldn't make any sense & would be a waste of time and money.
Pablo
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 Dec 08
That's something I learned from this election... no there is no federal agency tasked with the responsibility of verifying eligibility to run for president.
The question has to be answered conclusively.
1 person likes this
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
5 Dec 08
I have heard too many things on this. that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii and therefore not an american citizen. I also heard that when he was little his mother revoked his american citizenship along with her own becaming citizens of another country (indonesian) and sense he never re-applied for his american citiizen statis he can't be president. Hopefully the supreme court will look into it and get it all sorted out either way. Either he is a "natural citizen" or he isn't. I would think this would be an easy one for them to figure out.
I do find it funny that his grandmother in Kenya says she was at his birth and that it was in Kenya. But maybe she is confused. But you would think that you would remember something like that correctly. But as I said before maybe she is confused.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 Dec 08
Annie, watch this video.. it is very compelling.. not proof, but compelling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QdyLOUHz-A&feature=related
1 person likes this
@cadman1 (96)
• United States
5 Dec 08
Wow. I didn't realize the allegations on this have not already been resolved...
We have already elected someone that may not even be eligible. The only thing we can hope for is that Obama is indeed a United States citizen and that he will do what he says and get our country headed in a better direction.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 Dec 08
Actually, he hasn't been elected yet. That doesn't happen until later this month when the Electoral College meets. That's when this question needs to be settled by.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
5 Dec 08
We have to find out if he is eligible to be the president or the president elect. If he is not a US born citizen, then he is eligible. It will also send a message to the Obamanites that the presidency should not be based on how good a speaker he is, but if his ideas makes sense. Of course, this could have been avoided if Obama had shown his true birth certificate, or made people believe he was a demigod and could do no wrong.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
5 Dec 08
This is just plain ridiculous! While I've been reading here for months that Obama wasn't BORN in the United States and therefore can't be President, the case the Supreme Court will decide on today isn't even about that.
"Mr. Donofrio concedes Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii. He argues, however, that Mr. Obama was a British citizen due to his father's British citizenship."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/04/supreme-court-hear-obama-citizenship-suit/
So which is it - was Obama born in Kenya or some other country or was he born in Hawaii but still not a U.S. citizen? Are there any MORE straws to grasp at?
Annie
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 Dec 08
It isn't rediculous, crazy or anything else, it is a constitutional question that needs to be answered conclusively before Obama takes office.
We can't have it just someone's word that someone saw the birth certificate.
What is rediculous is, Barack Obama was willing to show a birth certificate or certificate of legal residence for everything else he has done that requires one... but for President he refuses.
Whatever the question about his eligibility, it needs to be answered. Obama says he will keep his administration as open and transparent as possible. Yet he refuses to be open about this?
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 Dec 08
Annie... which is it? That is the question isn't it... and Obama could easily answer it, so why doesn't he?
1 person likes this
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
5 Dec 08
Well that does not make sense. If he was born in the US than he is a US citizen. Ask all teh illegals who come here and have anchor babies. It does not matter the citizenship of the parents. If he was born in Hawaii he is a US citizen.
What I am hearing is that his mother waived her and Obama's US citizenship when he was little and they became Indoneisan citizens (revoking his US citizenship). America does not recongize duel citizenships. You are either a US citizen or your not. So I guess it is a matter if wether or not his mother really revoked his citizenship or if Indonsia is a country that reconized dual citizenships. Which would mean in Indonesia he would be both a US and Indonisan citizen. Which means he kept his US citizenship. If Indonesia does not recognize dual citizenships and his mother signed papers to waive their american citizenship to get indonisan citizenship than it could be an issue if he did not when he was older and came back to this country fix it and re-apply for his citizenship.
It is a big complicated mess in my opinion. The reason it is an issues is because we have never had a president before that was a citizen of any country but this one before. The Presidency is one of the few government jobs that has special "citizenship" requirements. We will just have to wait and see what happens.
1 person likes this
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
5 Dec 08
I am of the mind that he in all likely hood was born in the U.S. That being said, with the huge swell of doubt, fueled by the fact that he has side stepped producing a vaulted birth certificate, I think in order to put this behind us and get back to the business of getting our country back, he needs to produce this certificate. If he is in fact legal, why the issue? I can't understand why he would have a problem. All it takes for all of this to go away is to produce that proof. No big deal, right?
The remifications of things taking a turn and having it shown he ISN'T in fact legal are pretty reaching and sobering. The constitution is the constitution. It exists for a reason and it is a LEGAL and binding contract. If we ignore that and make exception for any reason, it sets precident for future violations of it. This time it's a qualification for presidency, next time it might be one of your rights, or worse case scenario, it disapears altogether and with it, our dear and great republic. No, this is no trivial issue, the future of this country in the long run truly is at stake with this seemingly nit-picky issue.
1 person likes this
@kenzie45230 (3560)
• United States
6 Dec 08
This does need to be decided. Sadly, lots of people think that if he had nothing to hide, he would have produced real proof long ago.
@littlevv29 (20)
•
5 Dec 08
i dont know if this is true or not but i have heard that he was born in kenya was not a christian and that he wasnt swearing in on the bible and that his middle name is hussein. so i dont know what to think.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
5 Dec 08
Gee, you've heard all of the right wing rumors, haven't you? Obama is a Christian and has belonged to a Christian church for about 20 years, not that THAT should even be relevant at all, he DID get sworn in on the bible and so what if his middle name is Hussein, he didn't name himself.
Annie
@gigagiga (6)
• United States
5 Dec 08
Persoally, i think that the whole reason for any controversy is simply the facts. John mccain had a history of duty and integrity and loyalty to this country. obama is just a kid in comparison. he has little more than qualifiying experience in politics and ran simply to see if he could "win". and john mccain spent years as a POW in vietnam. thats loyalty. so the pure notion that it is problem that we could be faced with a new inexperienced president, i say blessed be us if he is ineligible.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
8 Dec 08
None of that mattered in the end. 53% of the people decided they would rather have Obama in the White House than McCain. Later this month, the Electoral College will most likely make it official.
I have no problem with the outcome of the election itself, sure, my guy didn't win but that's how things work sometimes.
The only concern I have here is the fact that Obama flatly refuses to prove his eligibility to be president. It is the height of arrogance that he thinks he shouldn't have to.