Why Jesus could not be the Messiah as Prophesized-A Bible debate

• United States

17 Dec 08

I read that Mary was the blood line of David the house of (Jesse) and this would fulfill the scripture as GOD always does the unexpected but not against the laws of nature. The real father of Jesus was actually Joseph, but you have to read between the lines to understand that... Why would they lie? Mary and Joseph, well think about some of your answers that were already given? Young love a ton over excited and ooops??? There wasn't even any penetration... But something got by, something happened, but how? Could it be? Nothing like this has ever happened before it is not recorded in human history, but is there a first time for everything? Who knows? GOD knows, maybe we should ask the OBGYN that Mary used... Would that have been Luke? Well maybe technology wasn't all that good back then and maybe we had to rely on the word of mouth or the word of a mother? The thing is that a child was born and that child was loved enough that he learned how to read and speak and if only we could find writings from this person Jesus the Christ. Now that would be a real find, but alas, I'm afraid that if any writings were to be discovered they would have been and they would have likely been destroyed. Just as every manuscript was to be destroyed that contained the name of Jesus this Jesus the Christ of Nazareth born in Bethlehem which Bethlehem? The Bethlehem of Galilee?? Not of Judea but of another town called Bethlehem and most likely this baby was born there. What is a prayer? To me a prayer is a petition or request to know. I too would like to know more, and I like to share what I already know. If you want my source for the Birth of Jesus of Galilee, I will gladly provide that source as it is documented. As for the Mary and Joseph thing and Jesus being the Christ filled with the spirit of GOD and a light to the world. Yep that is true, and that spirit can even be found in you. Now what can you share with the Jewish community? Will they now believe? Maybe? Maybe not, we can only be a light unto the path, but then again, Madeoff made off with a lot of money and gave it away to others who made off with a lot of money, and there should be a pretty good paper trail to follow, where all of that money went, where did all of that money go? Is GOD watching over us? Do you doubt? Who is like the Lord? Who is like the Lord of Glory? And the gift goes on, and on, Peace will come from accountability, Blessings, One world united,

1 person likes this

• United States

18 Dec 08

Well the other way to look at it is the prophecy could have been recorded wrong? Dare I say there is an error in the Bible? Oh' my... *gasp*

@cyntrow (8523)

• United States

18 Dec 08

"Dare I say there is an error on the bible?" Well, you can say it to me. And that is the reason I believe as I believe. I believe because I feel it and not because I have read it. But...this is a bible debate and I am very curious to see what Christians who base their entire faith on the words in the bible would say about this. Thank you for your input.

@cyntrow (8523)

• United States

18 Dec 08

The third chapter of Luke would not pertain in this case. Even if the lineage, in Hebrew tradition, could be passed down through the mother, The Messiah must be a descendent of David through his son Solomon. Mary was a descendent through David's second son, Nathan. So mary could not be a Messianic Jew. In order to persuade Jewish people to believe you can only let them alone. I believe what I believe through faith. That is all. This discussion is not to say that I do not believe that Jesus is not the Messiah. It's not to say that I do. It is a bible debate; the kind that I grew up with. So, one of the prophesies was that the Messiah would be a direct descendent(in Hebrew tradition, that would be from the father's side) to david, from his son, Solomon. Joseph fit this bill. But, if mary's conception was immaculate, then Joseph was only Jesus' father by adoption and therefore, could not pass on his lineage. Scripturally speaking, then, how could Jesus be the Messiah, as prophesized?

kerriannc

@kerriannc (4279)

• Jamaica

17 Dec 08

Jesus is the Messiah, Joseph was Jesus earthly father. If you read the story you will see that Mary and Joseph was an up right couple and they found favour in God. Remember God cannot dwell in dirty vessel so he would not go to someone who was not a virgin or was always breaking the laws rather it be earthly or heavenly. So he saw that this couple was of virtue and he choose Mary to bring forth his child. His child that know no sin. Now because Joseph is of the flesh God has to warn him before because we of the flesh does not understand the spiritual realm that much so God send forth his angels so that Joseph does not put aside MARY. My friend I would encourage you to read the bible and understand it for yourself. The bible is a book of interesting and true stories. But if you are in doubted pray and ask God to give you understanding and knowledge through Jesus Christ so that you can understand his words and his ways better. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Kerry

1 person likes this

@cyntrow (8523)

• United States

18 Dec 08

Kerri, the bible states that the Messiah would be a direct descendent of the line of David. You have not answered this. You have, however, questioned my faith and I don't appreciate it. I have not said what I believe. Neither have I said what I do not believe. You have taken it upon yourself to presume that I am in doubt and that I have not read the bible. Trust me, I have NO DOUBTS. But the bible is subjective and a debate about scripture is not only enlightening, but fun. Get off your horse and join the debate. Research the verses that I have provided and give your own insight. Make no presumptions about the feelings and thoughts of a poster. Instead, read and put your own thoughts out. ONly respectful replies will be answered.

kerriannc

@kerriannc (4279)

• Jamaica

18 Dec 08

Which horse are you presuming that I am cyntrow. The bible say when there are persons who are contradictory we should not participate and when I read this I was not going to but I went against the spirit that was guiding me. This is what I received for disobeying insults.

@cyntrow (8523)

• United States

18 Dec 08

OK, I'm on a horse!! Are you less insulted now?? You questioned my faith with no reason, for I gave you none. Just read the verses and participate in the discussion. That's all. You didn't address the topic. You addressed me personally. Do you get it?? Read the verses and the discussion and participate. It's what a bible discussion should be.

• United States

18 Dec 08

I had a whole long post put together and lost it I know I could or should have backed up that writing before trying to post, where do lost posts go when in the midst of the oceans of electronic data, it must be out there somewhere as was my post is out there... Way out now and never to be seen again. I'll have to work on a new rendering as the MyLot server redirected my post in a loop that could never be completed. Sounds to me like a person in MyLot didn't appreciate what I wrote or some deviant managed some power and control over my thoughts. I'll try to share what I was thinking later...

• United States

19 Dec 08

I'll post what I recall from what I had written which is now permanently lost. But my mind is strong. I shall come back to this once again. In the meanwhile we have others that are very interested in this discussion and some that appear less than serious, but look again and maybe you'll see... Think the knocking over of the tables would the Church or Temple allow a person that disrupts their business (the money changers) would that not constitute disorderly conduct? By whom? Naughty might be appropriate and reveal the heart of Jesus towards the false teachers and leaders. More to follow...

• United States

19 Dec 08

Okay I've added a lot to the first page, Key points: 1. Freedom from oppression. 2. The Church and the tables, Jesus was not in favor of the business of the Church or Temple and the money changers, as a result Jesus was not heralded as any Messiah by the leaders of the Jewish faithful. 3. 1 Samuel 8: 7-9 4. Messiah, King, Lord of Life, Leader to Eternal Life, Do we really need a Savior??? How about a guide to a narrow path? A helper, a kinsman, an individual who had to endure the worst of experiences of his time. 5. Do you think that if Mary saw Jesus walking after the crucifixion that there would be any greater love by her for any other person walking on the face of the Earth? (Another discussion maybe, quite a love story at least...)

@cyntrow (8523)

• United States

18 Dec 08

If you find it, feel free to PM me. I think you are on my friend's list.

TwilightGuardian

@TwilightGuardian (70)

•

18 Dec 08

I've heard from a reliable source that he is a very naughty boy too.

jesus

• United States

19 Dec 08

Hi Cyntrow, May I point you to your latest reply on Fredrick's post and the first response to the post by Fredrick and then draw your attention right back here... Just a point to be made, As I mentioned below... Peace and Blessings through accountability, With great love and respect, Sincerely, Gary

@cyntrow (8523)

• United States

18 Dec 08

What??? are you being sarcastic or are you being idiotic? Either way, I don't get it.

• United States

23 Dec 08

Gee, I wonder what Santa Clause has to do with Christmas? Or is that the Santa clause (as in fine print)?

lvaldean

@lvaldean (1612)

• United States

18 Dec 08

Now I am truly confused! I have always known the one - the line of David and the issue of Joseph. But I always thought that Mary wasn't of the line of David at all. Truthfully, I thought that the bloodline could pass through the mothers line in the Jewish tradition. You have me curious now and I will have to scurry down my favorite ratholes to do discovery. oh I love you so!

1 person likes this

lvaldean

@lvaldean (1612)

• United States

19 Dec 08

To my ratholes I go. This is a great and wonderful discussion. Thank you thank you thank you

katran

@katran (585)

• United States

18 Dec 08

Hmm. I never knew there were such strict rules about who could and could not be the Messiah! There are a lot of lineages in the Bible, and it all gets a little confusing after a while, but there are some things that are not confusing: First of all, what about the prophesies all throughout the Old Testament? How come the one detail of Joseph being his step-father and not his father is the one for Jews to focus on? What about Isaiah 7:14? "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." What about Micah 5:2? "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel." Here is my thing. I think God doesn't like to be figured out. I think he wants to do things HIS way, and not conform to what man expects. And on top of that, in my eyes....God is God! He can choose as king whoever he pleases! Do you think it is coincidence that both Joseph and Mary' lineages can be traced back to David, even if it is not as perfect a match as people expect? Sometimes I think God is looking down at us, shaking his head, wondering if we will ever get it. But I guess he knows we never will. Thank goodness for that. ;P

1 person likes this

• United States

18 Dec 08

I'm here first because what is apparent is that the Bible is full of contradictions. If so many errors exist then is the Bible the authority to know GOD? I think, but I think that the Bible is not a good authority to be the guide for human behavior or as a path to GOD. I see something wrong big time! Look around you, I think I got it...

judges

kings

@cyntrow (8523)

• United States

18 Dec 08

Katran, Isaiah uses the word, "almah" which in hebrew means "young woman." English translation has made Virgin, but that may not be the case. The fact of the matter is that according to scripture, if Joseph was Jesus' he would be more likely to be the prophesized Messiah than if he was concieved of the Holy Spirit. Historically speaking, I think that most if not all of the Jews of Mary and Joseph's time could be traced back to David. Which is why it was stated that it would be of the line of David's first son, Solomon, that the Messiah was born. That would narrow it down a bit. Then there are the other stipulations according the prophesy Actually, I do think that God enjoys watching us think and try to understand. It shows that he taught us well. It shows that we are using the brain that He gave us. I think we will all be greatly surprised when it all ends, but I don't believe for one second, that God would be angry with those of us who ask questions. That's just my personal opinion.

1 person likes this

katran

@katran (585)

• United States

18 Dec 08

Oh, of course he wouldn't be angry with us for asking questions! I do not disagree with you there. He gave us these wonderful brains to use, and I'm sure he delights in the fact that we use them. I am certainly not trying to prove any point, and I can see that you know much more about this than I do. I will have to do some more research on the subject, because it seems very interesting. As for me though, I am satisfied with what the Bible has told me.

• United States

18 Dec 08

I'm going to pose another thought and this is completely off of the beaten path. What was the will of GOD for the political governance of the Jewish people? In other words was it the will of GOD that the Jewish people should have for themselves a King? First was Saul, correct? Second was David, obviously if Saul was first... Then Solomon... That is the first three if I started out on the right thought. But how was Saul appointed? By what method did Saul find favor to be pronounced King of Israel?

• United States

19 Dec 08

Yes, I do know and I'm going to answer the point of my query with the book chapter and verses that I would like to direct everyone's attention to. In 1 Samuel chapter 8 verses 7-9. What is revealed about the nature of GOD and the people that claim to be the people of GOD and their relationship to GOD?

urbandekay

@urbandekay (18278)

•

19 Dec 08

Well, Greyback has answered this question sufficiently, once you understand that what is important about the prophecy is identification, Quibbling about pedantry is irrelevant. all the best urban

sid556

@sid556 (30960)

• United States

19 Dec 08

I am not an expert on this at all and it has been eons since I have opened the bible up. I did read a book a few years back called The Scriptures Shattered. It was written by a person who had done extensive research on this topic and the history of Jesus. It was facinating reading and I would highly reccomend it to all. It made me think for sure. very good book. you can probably find it in your library...you should read it. I know you'll enjoy it.

jlamela

@jlamela (4898)

• Philippines

18 Dec 08

I didn't know that there are people out there who still don't know why they existed in this world and always unsure of themselves. Atleast I know why I existed. There's only one I know in this world: I am a Catholic and believes what my religion teaches me. So far, my faith in God and trust in my religion lead me a very peaceful and fruitful life. St. Augustine once said: "Unless you put your heart to God, your heart becomes restless". If doubts existed in our lives it's because there's something deep inside that needs to revitalize and needs to reconcile, it is only in going back to ourselves that we can find answers with our troubles and doubts, we don't have to find those answers outside of ourselves. If we are at peace then everything went smoothly. That's why it is very vital in our lives that we make our religion and faith as the focal point of our existence and the center of our life. I always believe in the Holy Trinity and the salvation preached by Jesus Christ, it always help me one way or another in my 34 years of existence.