Do you know this man? Pt. 2

Hi tea!! He does have a way of putting things in a very logical and reasoned fashion, that's why much of what he has to say appeals to me on a deep level. I'm so glad you enjoyed it. I wish you and your loved ones happiness, peace and health in this New Year.

Thank you so much! What a generous thing to say. That means a lot to me coming from you. I always enjoy hearing from you too. You're a very special lady.

Craft you are always so kind and great on your responses. I do love to hear from you.

Me too, knowledge junky to the bone.

Happy New Year!

happy new year!

I like your discussions. Happy New Year HUGS

We have a lot in common there pola! I am not religious either and live by a life philosophy, code of ethics and code of conduct of my own. My form of reverence (spirituality some would call it) is for life, nature, the Universe as a whole. I study many religions, belief systems and philosophies but I am extremely happy and content with my own Pantheistic philosophy. In a nutshell, I am an ultimate realist! Yes the attacks have been horribly vicious for the last couple of days and I know you've suffered the same in the past. It's so unnecessary. I can't say it's bothered me much but it makes you wonder sometimes how someone can allow their mind to become so twisted into professing one thing and their actions show the exact opposite. I have a very hard time comprehending it. I enjoy that Locke quote very much and it's one of my favorites. Thanks so much pola, I'm always very happy to have a chance to chat with you.

A very peaceful and happy new year to you! HUGS

I certainly do agree with you Ann (you already knew I would) . I also think it is impossible to have a world totally without any conflict. We are individuals with our own thoughts and sometimes those do not always mesh with other's. I would like conflict to be thought of immediately as a topic for logical and reasoned debate rather than illiciting a knee jerk reaction of rude or violent behavior. With his philosophy, conflict would never be associated with violent action of any kind. Simply an exchange of thoughts and ideas. Teaching by example makes much more sense and I feel makes a truer impression on others because it boils down to choice. You can choose to adopt another's philosophy, keep your own or combine the two. Total free will and exchange of knowledge. Forced teaching is nothing more than suppressing logical, reasoned thought and knowledge then progressive brainwashing into someone else's philosophy. Intellectual growth, personal growth and personal choice is stifled. I'm so happy when you come to my discussions Ann, you always make me laugh, smile or think. Sometimes all of the above. I really appreciate that. Thanks!

Hello my dear friend! Somehow I'm not surprised that you also subscribe to his e-mails. I always knew you were a deep thinker and enjoyed philososphy as much as I did. I love what you said, you put it into words so well. Many of his e-mails have helped me in everyday life. To help think in a new direction to solve a conflict or personal issue. I find them very calming and thought provoking. Thanks so much for coming by and sharing your thoughts. Hugs

Hi Craftcatcher thanks for the BR...i hope all is well with you hugs littleowl xx

I do not follow JK or any other philosopher nor do I ever recommend others to do so. I have my own philosophy. I admire the man because he did think "outside the box" at times. I enjoy reading philosophy that makes me think and that is what I encourage others to do. Although I have read about his past, and several controversies that is not my particular concern. I don't feel the necessity to agree with someone's entire life to gleen wisdom from something they have written or said. They don't change what I believe.. not yet anyway. I don't think that any one person has or has ever had the perfect answer for a perfect life that everyone should follow. Philosophy to me is a process of learning for your entire life. Take what you've experienced, read and heard from all sources, think it through and adopt that which makes perfect sense to you. From that you develop a code of ethics and conduct which grows and changes as you go through your life. Since everyone's sensibility, intellectual level and personal needs are not the same, one way is not the way for all. In my opinion if a person follows only one person's philosophy, they have created a religion. For the purpose of this discussion I was trying to do the exact opposite. I was trying to get people to think outside the religion bubble and think more toward a personal philosophy. I'm curious as to which Western Philosophers you have studied or are referring to to have such a low opinion of them? Thank you for your addition to the discussion Gadhisunu.

Ok, you went off in several off topic directions here and I won't debate several of your points since some do not relate to the philosophical point of this discussion. I get the feeling that you pigeonhole logic & philosophy into a narrower viewpoint than I do. To me, logic is a way of life, in every aspect of life. Our individual interpretation of logic may just be the cultural differences. You said in your previous reply: But could you use Logic for discovery itself? I don't know how you could have discovery without logic! Logic is about connecting the dots and taking the next logical step and then with logic and science you have to prove it to be fact or at the very least, plausible. It seems, in my opinion, you misinterpret creativity and logic. You see them as two completely separate entities where I see them walking hand in hand. You see creativity as ethereal chance thought, where I see it as the next logical step. I would challenge you to find me any discovery which did not advance from a logical "next step". If humans relied on chance thinking we'd still be in the stone age. Logic drives humanity, our progress, our creativity and our lives. But then we can also debate how this relates to philosophy. You said; "This insistence on Logic and marrying thought to the straitjacket of Logic in laying of their concepts have left me with nothing to do." I do not see thought and logic as a straightjacket. Just the opposite, it motivates me to take the next step, to think in terms of "what more can I learn and teach". Combined with my personal code of ethics and conduct it drives me to always see what more I can do. I fail to see how you can tie de Brolie into this philosophical discussion since he was a physicist not a philosopher. Russell and Wittgenstein were mostly analytical logicians. No wonder you got bored. You didn't broaden your horizons enough to make philosphy "as a ways of life" interesting or suitable to your life. I would suggest that instead of searching for the person to follow and tell you how you should live, read a bit more extensively and figure it out for yourself. If you are searching for a God to tell you what to do and how to live your life you are not going to find it in logic or most philosophies. Religion is not logical. Religion's intent is to stop you from thinking logically and turn to supernatural. I should qualify that with the term "organized religion". Many new religions are based strictly on personal choice and philosphy whether the supernatural is seen as real or simply symbolic. If you begin to see philosophy as a starting point then introduce logic you'll be surprised how you can figure it all out on your own. It is the search where a person finds peace and contentment. Nobody else can tell you how to achieve that. I would highly recommend some of the following websites and books as a starting point. http://www.sacred-texts.com/ This is the ultimate in philosophical and religious websites. http://www.reasoned.org/ http://www.panpsychism.net/ The Essential Kabbalah: The Heart of Jewish Mysticism by Daniel C. Matt Elements of Pantheism by Paul Harrison Spinoza: Complete Works by Benedictus de Spinoza, Michael L. Morgan, and Samuel Shirley Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space by Carl Sagan Parallel Worlds: A Journey Through Creation, Higher Dimensions, and the Future of the Cosmos by Michio Kaku Beyond Good and Evil: Prelude to a Philosophy of the Future by Friedrich Nietzsche, Robert C. Holub, and Marion Faber The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and of course the Bible, the Koran and the Torah

Craftcatcher, Logic and Philosophy are connected; Logic forms the basis of rational human thinking; logic is the basis of Science and Technology. If as you rightly say Philosophy is an inquiry, into life in such a manner as to see life as a series of meaningful happenings and you feel that your inquiry has made it possible to organize the jigsaw puzzle of life's happenings in such a way that you now know all the pieces; you find that a fine thread of beautiful logic puts them all in place- now, this is exactly what puts me off. Logic is an excellent broomstick. You sweep the floor clean and put it away in a corner. Logic is an excellent check tool so that you don't go overboard, in drawing conclusions. Logic is essential to place an argument/ a series of arguments about a proposition so that a reader follows through the same path to your conclusion about something. But could you use Logic for discovery itself? I am afraid not. For if discovery were logical it would be seen by the person who had made the first proposition itself. I could think of one instance of pure logic driving discovery. De Broglie's idea of matter waves, from the concept of wave-particle duality. Even in this situation one cannot with certainty say that there was no leap of thinking mind over the logical sub-steps, that require the converse to be true. All discoveries need such creative leaps. These creative leaps are what give me the real exhilaration of the thinking process itself. Take any western Philosopher's writings. It is a well laid out plan of thinking. You asked me why Western Philosophers are not interesting to me. This insistence on Logic and marrying thought to the straitjacket of Logic in laying of their concepts have left me with nothing to do.In fact I didn't pursue through JK partly because, of this western style of thinking in his writings. In fact I started with Bertrand Russell in my 16th year. Those were the days when I embarked on Philosophy, thinking that I am going to find the answers to the riddle of life. I must honestly confess I couldn't get the drive to complete reading any of the books. I started on "Why I am not a Christian" and gave up half way. There was one on "Ethics and Morals", which I began and gave up. I loved him more as a Mathematician/Logician in his Magnum Opus Principia Mathematica where he tried with AN Whitehead, to bring out the principles of mathematics from principles of logic unsuccessfully.The only book by Russell I could complete reading was ABC of Relativity. I then started on Wittgenstein. Perhaps, I was looking for something in these philosophers whether what they thought and how they acted are connected, but have not found anything usable for understanding Life. I do not know somewhere along the line I felt Western Philosophy and Science are not much different. May be I am wrong. May be I gave up too early. So, I thought why waste time reading western philosophers ? Instead spend the time well in reading Tensor Analysis or some other intellectually challenging Scientific Work, may be String Theory, and only look to the East for philosophy which embodies several intellectual jumps and leaps, and not a presentations of ideas as a logical connected whole that Life definitely is not. Then I wanted to do a short work of Western Philosophy - something like get the gist of it and then see who among all of them looks interesting and then, embark on reading his/their complete works. To this end, I b(r)ought - History of Philosophy by Will Durant. I will try to overcome my disenchantment with Logic as the threading through of Western Philosophers' writings and see if I can at least finish this book in some finite time. May be that might help change my attitude about Western Philosophy. If you have some suggestions regarding this that is different from my plan I would very much like to know.

oh yes I will keep that drum beatting and we can dance together with the world!

I'm there!

Hi Lakota! I agree with you there. I don't want a narrow path.. I want the Universe. Thanks so much my friend, you keep beating that drum. It's easy to dance to.