Why God allowed his religion to erect walls and separations between people?

Religious Denominations in Cristianty - The evolution of the Christian Church (denominations, schisms, etc
@Khayam (346)
Romania
January 4, 2009 9:55am CST
According to Christians, God possesses three qualities: He is all-knowing, all-powerful and all-good. It is these three qualities that define Him as God, and it is these qualities that set Him apart from all the other false gods. However, Christians, in their relationships and understanding of God created these church denominations with different ideas, labels and dogmas. Arguably each of these churches holds the "whole truth" about God, a fact that to some extent transforms all other denominantions into "wrong paths" in the quest of finding God. Contrary to the promoted Biblical vision, Christian Churches haven't done any good in bringing people of the world together. They have merely erected more walls, divisions and separations... Why God let this happen?
1 person likes this
17 responses
@brian_s (570)
• United States
4 Jan 09
First of all, if God is all-knowing, and we are not, just because we can't figure out why God has or allows things a certain way does not mean that he cannot possess those qualities. In theory it could mean that, but it could just as easily mean that he knows what is ultimately good and we don't. He fact that things don't make sense to you or others is no argument against God's omniscience or omnipotence. And certainly it is no argument against his perfect goodness, or at least the Christian understanding of it, since he is the standard by which we can know what is good. At least in the circles I run, there is a whole truth, but none of us know it completely. But it is not necessary to know something completely to know it truly. What individuals believers at any given place may hold to, I cannot say. But my church certainly doesn't think that even our own denomination has the whole truth. They definitely think that it is closer to it that others, but why would they not think that? The did in fact choose the denomination knowing what others believed, and chose the one the thought was closer to the whole truth than others. And all of these walls, I think that they aren't as strong as you think. First of all, most people who go to church don't care about what is being taught. And if you don't care, and just want the service to be over so you can watch football, then what is their motivation to connect with people of other denominations. Secondly, I have heard conferences that have had speakers from many different denominations, who are united in their belief in the Gospel. So there will be conferences with John Piper and JI packer, or Piper and Driscoll. Thirdly, people mess up, and their mess ups do not invalidate the truth of the Christian God. In short, what God does is of his own free will, and we should not seek to strip Him of that right. We may question why he does certain things, but that does not at all meant that he is wrong or not there.
1 person likes this
@brian_s (570)
• United States
5 Jan 09
Believing in a difference between a God-ordained order or roles does not necessitate seeing a difference of value in different people. I'm sure most people don't think men should be able to sleep with their three year old sons or daughters. Sure that is an extreme case, but one must draw the line somewhere, right? If you don't think a man should sleep with his daughter, are you somehow being "intolerant" or putting up divisive walls? I don't think so. And if that happens to be putting up walls, I am all for putting up that wall. Everyone in a sense is "intolerant", except for a consistent existentialist who follows Camus. Everyone tolerates some things (certain kinds of speech, etc) and does not tolerate others (murder, rape, etc). So the point is this... What gives you the right to decide where others are allowed to draw that line. Do you have an objective measure (such as God), or a subjective one (social constructs, your own opinion)? Just because people think something is wrong does not make them hateful. I have plenty of friends who do wrong things. I don't hate them. But I will tell them when I think they are wrong. I do wrong things, and I hope they care enough about me to tell me when they think I am doing something wrong, or could do something better. I tolerate my friends, and they tolerate me. That doesn't mean we defend the rightness of each other's every action. To do so wouldn't be open-minded, but rather empty-headed.
@brian_s (570)
• United States
5 Jan 09
What I mean to say in short is... Saying that there are distinctions between right and wrong is not putting up a wall. Some people who make those distinctions may put up a wall. Some people who are offended may put up a wall. But the wall is made by people, rather than necessitated by the differing concepts of reality.
@Khayam (346)
• Romania
5 Jan 09
"And all of these walls, I think that they aren't as strong as you think". Ordination of women, homosexuality, clerical marriage - well, my friend these are really strong and divisive.
@kprofgames (3091)
• United States
4 Jan 09
This is very well presented and there is a lot of truth to this. In the heart of it, I do not believe that God let this happen. I think man did because he enterprises on God. Even back in the day of Jesus religion was marketed. Booths would be set up outside of the temples selling goods or animals for sacrafice. Church organizations were created, but some of them run back centuries because groups were formed to religious freedoms. Others like Henry the 8th, didn't he start his own church because divorce wasn't condoned? The history of how these different branches started really come down to the root of man wanting to take the power of God and harness is to control the people. I don't think one denomination is more holy than another. Spirituality is a good thing, but a person can still be spiritual and not have to be confined to an organization. In short, I don't think this was the intent of God. I feel it's man's involvement, man's hunger to control that builds these walls.
1 person likes this
@Khayam (346)
• Romania
5 Jan 09
Is a church denomination just a representativity of a group's interests? Nicely put...
• United States
5 Jan 09
Exactly and thank you.
• United States
4 Jan 09
I would have to agree with kprofgames above as it is not God but Man that causes the divisions. I have always held the view that what separates us (religiously) is WINDOW DRESSING. Dogma and Creed (window dressing) are man’s rules and interpretation of the Word and nothing more. Let put it in perspective: In Jesus’ time the Jewish movement changed from wandering nomads in the desert lead by one man , Moses, and God into numerous sects and denominations Saducees, Pharisees, Essenes, and Zealots to name a few. After the voice of God ended (for the most part) the separation began as the will of man took over as God left off. NOT GOD BUT MAN!!! The early Christian Church was lead by the direct descendants or Jesus (the Disciples). Under this leadership there was unity as the Spirit was strong with the Disciples then after the end of the Disciples the church broke down as Man’s Will as opposed to God’s took over thus causing separation. NOT GOD BUT MAN!! I hope that this has helped you in your dilemma and set your mind at ease. Have a wonderful day!!
• United States
5 Jan 09
Thank you for the Best Response!! HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY!!!
@Khayam (346)
• Romania
5 Jan 09
Simply perfect. Thank you
1 person likes this
@rsa101 (38166)
• Philippines
5 Jan 09
Well for me God is not to be blamed for these walls but men who interpret it wrongly. The walls that are erected are not by God's will I think and this are all men's way of interpreting their faith. God only provided us with free will meaning we all have a choice to be good or bad right or wrong. In the end it will be Him that will judge us if we made it right in our lives.
@brian_s (570)
• United States
5 Jan 09
rsa101, it is interesting what you say. But do you mind telling me by what standard you make that claim. The fact is that each and every one of us interprets reality. And each of us to some extent is wrong. However, my appeal to a standard is in God himself, and the work in which he inspired (the Bible). People say that my reasoning is circular here, and they are right. But every claim to ultimate authority (whether that is God, oneself, the society of the time, etc.) has to do that same thing, since the highest standard has nothing to appeal to that is higher. There is one thing that is the highest, and there is no appeal to anything that can substantiate that thing, because something lower cannot substantiate that which is higher. So what is the basis of your claims about the nature of God and of humankind. Is your standard yourself, or is it something outside of yourself?
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@Khayam (346)
• Romania
5 Jan 09
To a certain extent, you might be right. What you do with the people that get manipulated during the process? The free will si a big concept and arguably can't be expressed as freely as it might seem.
1 person likes this
@rsa101 (38166)
• Philippines
5 Jan 09
Wow Brian I was a little dizzy reading your post in here. Well I will explain with the best of may ability. As for me I have no question about God's love and everything in it. I guess He even gifted us with freewill that made us choose which side are we to go when dealing with humanity. The walls for me are just human made and not of God's. It's each and everyone's own choice and interpretation that we tend to create this walls to protect our ideologies behind it but in reality there is only one supreme Being that exist that may hold the whole truth about things.
@kerriannc (4279)
• Jamaica
4 Jan 09
God make this to happen because then when the day of judgement comes we will all know who was leading his children at stray. Christianity to me is having a personal relation with God my creator. To fully understand what he want of me and to appreciate the things he had done in my life. Going to church and fellowship what one should do but persons will go there and do things of the devil and say that it is in God name. This is the reason that Jesus says we should shine our light so that man sees it and glorified God who is in heaven. You my friend don't watch what these persons are doing but try and have a relationship with God for yourself.
1 person likes this
@Khayam (346)
• Romania
5 Jan 09
Spirituality is genuine, personal experience. However, sometimes the community sourounding you imposes sets of norms, values, ideas that you have to obey. Otherwise you would be an outcast within that community. And then, we are social animals...
@Sheepie (3112)
• United States
5 Jan 09
Honestly, this is just what I find so suspicious about Christians. There are dozens of religions supposedly supporting the same God guy, but the church leaders say so many different things. Not to mention that they have so many different interpretations of a very vague bible. It does not make sense. If this God is letting people talk for him falsely, then the people who don't know any better than to follow false teachings can't possibly be blamed because they were set up for disaster. Why should an all loving god leave his children behind?
@brian_s (570)
• United States
5 Jan 09
Sheepie, that response presupposes several things: -that all churches or people who say that they are Christian actually are (and the Bible claims otherwise-"wolves in sheeps clothing", or separating the wheat from the chaff) -that all definitions of God that sound the same to you are the same (take it from a Christian that appreciates nuance that they are not) -that God must love all people in the same exact way (people don't have to do this, so I don't understand how God could be constrained to that) -that the Christian understanding is that all people are God's Children (you can't find one place in the Bible where it claims that anyone is his child other than his chosen people, but I can show you where Jesus calls some people "sons of your father, the Devil") -that the Bible is vague (have you read the whole thing... it says plenty of blatant stuff that people who say they believe it do not like, and so they ignore it) What I mean to point out in this comment is not that you are in error in your own views (even though I believe you are), but that you are forcing your own definitions of terms on other people's viewpoints, even if you are unaware of it. Looking at another's viewpoint, but not considering their definitions, is somewhat meaningless, since their views are dependent upon their definitions of terms rather than your definitions.
@Khayam (346)
• Romania
5 Jan 09
This is a question that could stand up for its own discussion thread:-)
• Japan
9 Jan 09
If you really acknowledge and believe in your heart that He is all-knowing, all-powerful and all-good then why ask God about things that are way beyond our comprehension?
• Morocco
4 Jan 09
maybe there is some reasons you shouldn't ask too much about this deep questions with no answer you will go banana :)lol take my advise and live in peace
@Khayam (346)
• Romania
5 Jan 09
Allow me to smile in a very subtle way;-)
@qwerty19 (321)
• Philippines
5 Jan 09
i think God,. don't allow his religion to erect wall and separation between people!.. i think the people or we are the one who maked the separations to erect walls.,.,
4 Jan 09
Why did god let this happen? You're presupposing that god exists. A more meaningful question might just be "Why did this happpen?". My answer to that would be, people like to get into teams and fight. That's the sad but true heritage of the human race. Even today. We have religion. We get into teams and fight. We have sports. We get into teams and fight. We have business. We get into teams...and we fight.
@Khayam (346)
• Romania
5 Jan 09
I started a discussion within a Christian framework. If it would have been started according to a atheist or rather general system of values, I wouldn't have substantiated that aspect. So, I should understand that is the man's lust for control that created the divisions?
@marylots (51)
• United States
5 Jan 09
There's only one reason why these are happening: " it's the devil." This former cherub of God who transformed himself into Satan is the one responsible for the separation between God and mankind. Ever since the beginning of human existence, the devil has been trying all his best to take away mankind from God. He began doing this by deceiving the first human couple, Adam and Eve. The couple fell into the devil's trap, and the "Sin" was born, which created a wall between God and mankind. The devil has never stopped, he continued such betrayal to God through generations, making more and more walls of separation by confusing mankind. Enable to confuse mankind he has planned for the existence of many religions in the world, which, a lot of these religions are only blasphemy to God. Why Christian churches can't bring people together to God is because this is part of the devil's plan. The devil never let us, the people, to know about the truth...the truth that could set us free and lead to God. He tries to confuse us so we can never find God. The devil knows that the wrath of God is coming, this is the reason why he has been working so hard in establishing walls of confusions so that no people will be saved when the appointed time comes. And why God let this happen is because, this is one way to test his people. Anyone who has the Spirit of God will not be driven into confusions. If we have faith in God and we obey His will, His spirit will dwell with us. Another reason is, for everything in God's plans, there's an appointed time. The time of His vengeance has not yet come. He's asking his people to endure much longer, to be more patient, until the second coming of His Son Jesus Christ. When Christ comes again, he battles with the devil who was responsible for all the sufferings of mankind, then comes a New World where there will be no more sufferings, and all the people will have one faith and one God.
@missmfa (32)
• Kenya
5 Jan 09
Hi Khayam! I am a Christian and I know what you have written here is sadly true. Many Christians have done much to turn away people from knowing God. Even I myself turned away from Christianity for a few years largely because of being hurt by Christians and observing their hypocrisy. It is only when, through the grace of God, I discovered that Christianity was never meant to be a religion! It was always about having a personal relationship with God. Religion is a man-made thing and with over 6 billion individuals on the planet, who have different outlooks on life, well that explains why there are so many Christian denominations. This is NOT God's will. God wants His Church to be united and to love one another. This is the proof of true Christianity. As the song goes: "And they'll know we are Christians by our love". Our love for everyone - both Christians and non-Christians. Because anyway, God loves us ALL. :-) Why did God let this happen? Because He has given us free-will and we are free to choose whether we will follow His command to love one another or not. Personally, I choose to love everyone.
@cynthia23 (163)
• Philippines
5 Jan 09
maybe not god allowed this just people make new religion. god don't like it happen but people make it own Devil lead it way so have allot argument about religion but god not always do right things for us,but sometimes devil make us to be do bad things,reason are god is good
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
29 Mar 09
Why does God let the mess of religion happen???Simple, because there are so many lessons people will learn from it all.
@shooie (4984)
• United States
5 Jan 09
Men and Religion - It's not the name over the door it's who you serve!!!
God doesn't mess with the will of man. He allows us to make the decissions we want good or bad and hopes we learn from them. I was raised in Pentecostal Church but currently got to a baptist but my thing that I tell people when they get in the debate which church is best and blah blah...I just say it isn't the name over the door that I serve. People take just parts of the bible and run with it. I have to laugh because God loves us all no matter what "religion" we claim.
• United States
5 Jan 09
The Christian Churches can not and will never bring themselves together and we all know this... If we can not unite our own ranks how are we ever going to unite with other branches of the Abrahamic faiths? How can we bridge Judaism and bring the Muslim Islamic faith together with our own, how can we then incorporate our scientific knowledge with the Eastern paths of Buddhism and then how can we bring our Government and our Politics into line with a balanced Judiciary? Instead of making excuses for the failings of the Church it is time that we repair our economy and bring down the walls of the failed institutions that have fleeced our coffers and wasted our resources including our land. Think about the Global impact...
@murderistic (2278)
• United States
5 Jan 09
This is a good question. On the surface, I would say that God allowed it to happen because we have free will and we all have sin. It is in our nature to divide. Looking at it from a faith perspective, I think that there is a need for different types of churches simply because of the fact that more people come to God because of it. If the Catholic church was the only church, many people would be dissuaded from becoming Christians, especially if the reformation never happened and the Catholic church continued doing the very un-biblical things that it was doing in the Middle Ages. Giving Christians different denominations and outlets to practice their faith in a way caters to each person's spiritual needs and encourages more people to accept Christ. Or perhaps it is because most divisions are set out to do missions specific to their divisions - whether it be discouraging abortion, ministering the Bible worldwide, feeding the homeless, reaching out to the addicts, striving to be peacemakers, helping in humanitarian crises, contributing to development projects, building schools in developing countries, and so forth, most denominations have specific wants when it comes to ministry. Which ensures ministry to all. So perhaps there is a good reason why there is so much division. I'm not really sure.