Why do we need credit????
By dragonstar1
@dragonstar1 (330)
January 5, 2009 4:26pm CST
I'm miffed, I have been do much research recently in to how finance and the economy work.
I find it all very farcical, and the question begs why do we need credit?
Currency that is traded on the open market is fiat currency, it has no commodity backing it and therefore in effect is worthless. It is only given worth by the trading and the fact that we choose to accept it. The acceptor creates the value not the producer.
Credit can only be created with a signature, your signature, until you signed the contract those zero's did not exist. Also it isn't necessary for them to actually have the "money" to cover your "loan". Every heard of the matching principle?
The matching principle allows the organisation to record that loan as an actual asset, not future money or monthly money as you would expect. That means then they can lend the money you just created to someone else. We also have the fractional banking rule at play allowing them to multiply this up to 9 times. I have had my UK building society confirm that they use both of these Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP). It's a license to print money so to speak!
So where does the money come from to pay them back? If there wasn't the money in circulation in the first place then there is in effect no debt either. As we can only use a promise to pay (yep that bank note) then why is it acceptable?
Again if our governments borrow money (generally on a glit system), they are asked also to pay interest, hold on a sec haven't we just been there? Where do they get the extra to pay the interest. Once upon a time a glit was only payable in precious metal(yes that stuff that use to back our money, money of commodity). Remembering that the banks (private organisations) print the notes, so why would they want those back?
So surely lending is what creates the problem in the first place? Having more pretend money in circualation drives up the price of goods, or if you look at it another way actually devalues the note in effect.
What concerns me is the bail outs going on over the world, the phrase is tax payers money. This money is used by the banks to pay off the bad investments they have made, that is the private investments they have made, not our failed debt payments.
The question on my lips is my mortgage company has received millions and more, so why would I or anyone still owe anything on this said debt if they have been bailed out with our money? Hold on again there one second, we didnt have money for the hospitals or the schools, the roads or any public service we would expect to be upheld, but we suddenly had lots of tax payers money to give to these organisations.
If my debt isn't going to be wiped out by these "cash" injections, then where is my share certificate so I can start earning from these organisations? I personally feel they saw profit without thinking of the future, so why don't all these high earners, bonus takers and CEO's dig in to all that "cash" they've taken and prop up their own mistakes? Btw CASH is just another accounting term, nothing else, do check it out.
We do not need credit folks, we need a proper system that allows a balanced market to allow everyone to live how they should and not been enslaved to work for something that doesn't exist and cannot ever be repaid.
The only thing left in a fiat currency that has any worth is our labour, we all have the ability to trade our labour and use a commodity based monetry system to everyones advatange so no one has to suffer, no one should have to to work all the hours sent to receive nothing but intrinsically valueless paper.
If anyone has the mind too Ludwig Von Mises The Theory of Money & credit is available on google books, if you only read the chapters on money you'll find it interesting enough. http://www.econlib.org/library/mises/msTContents.html
There's also a great paper I found at harvard http://www.wcfia.harvard.edu/node/571
Also I think that the reason why these organisations have no thought of the future
is generally because the are of limited liabilty, what does that mean they can close and write everything off on a whim!
Also when the bank illegally sells you debt to another organisation they get to loose all the debt, clearing their accounting and they then record the small amount they make from doing this as a profit! Remember your contract was with the original provider, the contract cannot be transferred without your permission.
Wow why the double edge sword????
I really could go on but hope other with raise some good comments to carry on the dicussion.
Good or bad it's always great to hear what others have to think.
3 responses
@uath13 (8192)
• United States
5 Jan 09
Well you did your research there.
Personally I think we need to do away with the old money system. Our current system is supposedly backed by gold which is a luxury item. Most people wouldn't get or have much of it their day to day lives as it's not much use. Our currency should be backed by something we all actually need & use. I'd propose a new currency based on the GALLON. A GALLON bill would be equivalent to one gallon of gas ( normal octane with exchange values to higher octanes or diesel ) everywhere. Since everyone & every industry needs fuel & gas prices inflate at a similar rate to everything else ( if not cause the inflation )it would be of stable value. Not to mention for the big oil companies to make more profit they would have to either sell more fuel or get it to the stores more efficiently. That would prevent much of the screwing around with the economy they've been doing.
Then there's the whole credit thing.... Most of the people who pulled those shady deals need to be taken out back & shot. Problem solved.
STOP USING IMAGINARY MONEY PEOPLE! The only things you should use credit for is homes & cars & then only because of the high costs of each.
2 people like this
@dragonstar1 (330)
•
6 Jan 09
Hey great to hear from you,
I appreciate what you say with regards to using a commodity based system. I'm not sure using fuel would work as it is based on production and private ownership. I heard recently that they were going to slow production as they were unhappy that the prices had fallen recently. Supply & demand, less supply pushes the price up.
I'm not sure how we could use fuel without the greed factor playing a part again.
Have you any ideas on keeping this working fairly? I'm currently thinking a mile a minute to think of a fair way of running this, but haven't got there yet.
Public ownership? Then there would have to be a world government agreement to get there and then do we really trust them with our best interests considering the situation we are in? You have to be license to lend and that comes from the government.
Where are you from? I can only think of a few closed currencies in the world, generally a closed curency means you have a commodity to back your money. If you do not live in a closed currency then it is unlikely that you will have anything backing your money.
Once upon a time credit was only used for for houses and cars as you said, however compound interest is the killer in these type of loans. I'm sure the term mortgage was dervived from something that means locked in for life.
I could never understand as a child why they added the interest to the debt and then charged interest on the original balance coupled with the last lot of interest they had added to the total. Maybe we should pay interest? But certainly not compounded. Still the question arises if you have been given 100% how do you give back more?
The only thing worth anything in reality is you and what you do.
I've started trading my time with like minded people and its lovely not to have money as an issue, it feels like freedom.
1 person likes this
@uath13 (8192)
• United States
6 Jan 09
There would have to be a globally enforced system. A gallon would ALWAYS be worth 1 gallon. There could be no price jacking because the oil companies would be held to that standard just like a gallon is always held to a certain measure of volume. Once instigated it would be difficult for the oil companies to mess with it.
I'm from the U.S. supposedly Fort Knox holds the gold that backs our money but I doubt it's kept up with what they've printed.
2 people like this
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
6 Jan 09
Wow, I knew I hated finance for a reason in college lol I think it had more to do with all of the math formulas and stuff. Great research but, weren't you bored doing it all?
2 people like this
@dragonstar1 (330)
•
6 Jan 09
Hi ya, no not at all, knowledge is power.
If we can understand how it works then we have the tools to deal with it.
As I said there's so much more I have found out. Some days I have spent around 8 hours a day reading in the last few months. now you can see why I haven't posted here much.
The legalities only work for them because we do not have the understanding. I'm sure you must know that when you don't understand a "law" you are told that it's up to you to find out and furnish yourself, well generally we don't, we believe what we are told and abide because we do not understand.
We actually hold the true power, an organisation is only afforded some of the rights of a living soul so they can act as a "person". Honestly the true defintion of person was eye opening enough.
Try looking up legislation in black's law dictionary, can't remember if it was the 3rd or 4th edition though.
1 person likes this
@dragonstar1 (330)
•
6 Jan 09
Hey again,
I meant to say the sums/ formulas & equations mean nothing.
You were right not to lose valuable thinking space remembering or even trying to work out what they mean.
I've had days where I though my brain was trying to escape because I'd finally found some sense in what was happening around me.
I never ever believed anything anyone told me without first finding out for myself. Then we get older and embroiled in the day to day must pay this etc, we forget we can question what is happening.
I have another good quote I found.....
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth", Albert Einstein
Much love x
1 person likes this
@monty_zhang (13)
• China
29 Mar 09
A very good text and i learn lots of information about credit,thank you !
@dragonstar1 (330)
•
30 Mar 09
Thanks I'm really pleased to see that older posts are still being read.
I've spent some time reading about asset backed securities, this is the process of selling your debt on to someone else. It seems this can happen as soon as your paperwork reaches the administration department.
I came across CARDs, this how they sell or bond credit card debt.
I would suggest that due to non disclosure of these processes that any contract with an organisation would be null and void. Again any contract you sign that has been pre written is also considered unfair (and again null & void). The law surrounding contracts states it has to be a meeting of minds to decide the terms & conditions, so it seems that I have never signed a valid or enforceable contract in my life.
A contract can only be signed by a living soul, a corprate oprganisation is a legally defined "person" and only given some of the rights of a living being, and obviously because of this cannot actually lawfully contract.
Just to let you know also, in order to pay a debt, it has to be fully substatiated, that is by way of their accounting or book keeping, rather than via the statements they provide to you (a statement is just that and also not a bill either). Also a debt cannot legally or lawfully record with credit agencies without this substatiation.
What a minefield to find your way through, however the way is looking clearer all the time, hope you are able to see the same.