"Wh0res and Saints"

Soooooooooooooo wonderful to see you here writing. I hope this is for awhile now./ As for the writing here. It is true that women have long let things happen as they always have. I use a favorite saying of mine here. "You will ALWAYS be where you have always been if you Always do what you have always done." This holds true in so many cases but here for certain. But a point that I might set before you is this: Men are at fault in more ways than you might see. By this I mean that we Too are predisposed to a tradition and a passing on of how women are to be treated by our Fathers and Uncles and most males we will grow up near in our formidable years. My father taught me that women were precious and always to be treated tederly and gently. he never tried to ibstill in me a thought that women were weak in any way. He simply taught me that a women "depends" on her husband and that he is to do all he can to give her the best he can. he also taught me that women could do anything a man could do but due to their pphysical build it was up to a man to a lot for her. You are totally right. It is so stereotyping but understand if you will that it was drilled in to our heads at a young age how to treat a women. Like a Flower... I will still pull your chair out for you and take your coat from your shoulders. I will still open the car door for you but do it knowing you were fully capable of doing that yourself. Women tried many years ago to change things by burning their bras and getting man haircuts.All that did was make men notice nipples more and pretend your hair was long and flowing. I think women can change the way men act towards them without sacrificing the nicities that come with being a woman. Do not allow a man to degrade you by words or actions. If he does, then tell him. If he makes you feel uncomfortable by his words or actions, TELL HIM! He will then have a choice to either respect your wishes or he will walk away. If he does the latter then your better off with him anyways. You can do anything you want as long as you hold your head up high and know you CAN. Just my thoughts this morning. Huggssssssssssssssssssssss to you... Always, Darrel

I'm so glad I don't live in a Country where women are still seen as second class citizens though even here in the UK some men still think a woman's place is tied to the kitchen sink. You'd think that in the 21st century we'd at least realise that you can't have one without the other! Every man owes his life to a woman, the one who carried him for 9 months and raised and nurtured him as a child! As for women covering up so men aren't led into temptation, doesn't that just prove the weakness of men? If women are so 'evil' why is it that they are the ones who bring up the next generation? Why did (if you believe in the Bible) God create a woman as a companion for Adam? He could have given him a male companion and then the 'problems' would never have occured!

there are lot of atrocities committed against women,especially in our country(india).they have been downtrodden for many generations,that they now find it difficult to raise their voices.if a woman does something out of ordinary,she is labelled ,as a woman of loose character,while if a man does the same thing ,he is labelled as a leader(leaders do things differently.)

Yup amazes me too that the women in other countries still abide by this! and if tehy dont they get their heads cut off. I for one from about the 2nd or 3ed grade in school let a boy boss me. when they tried there would be a fist fight and I won! They soon learned that they wasnt in control. now I did let my hubby boss me to some extent. but in the end I got my way. And I pity the man that can only think of one thing is to spoil the dove as it were.

Wow, that's quite a bit. It's amazing to me that after all women have accomplished, we still fall prey to the same old problems that have haunted us for centuries. Most women still judge themselves by how pretty they are, are they married, are good mothers, etc. Failing to recognize that there are other measuring sticks for them to value themselves by. But, to be fair to men, we do it to ourselves. Look at all the petty sniping that takes place when you put women in a room. We judge each other by same things men judge us on and are much harsher. It's interesting to me that most of the time women are torn apart it's by other women. Now, the cultures you're talking about, are dominated by men, but scratch the surface, dig below and you'll find the women are complicit in the oppression. There are mothers, aunts, neighbors all to willing to tear a girl down for thinking she's worth more than her uterus. Even in our "civilized" world, they do it. Why don't we defend ourselves? I don't know, but I know that respecting women just because we're all born from them is ridiculous. It again feeds into the whole thing of women merely being baby-producing machines. Respect women because they have brains, respect them because they contribute to our world in so many ways, respect them because they're people.

As a man I feel that I should naturally want to protect all the women that I'm around especially my girlfriend. I fully understand that women are not property but godesses. Women are the godesses that keep us men drooling and just staring in awe. There are certain religions and practices that worship women god's over a male god and I think that is very accurate. If a woman on earth can make a human being then obviously there are female gods. Also mother earth is probably one of the most powerful things we know as human beings and we consider it as a female. The female gender is beautiful and powerful and I as a man will never take that for granted.

Well, I do agree with you completely about gender equality. My country India does have a bad record in that, but has made rapid strides to improve the situation. I think today the status on this matter would be about equal or a little below that of the US. A lot more needs to be done, and it has to be done by both sexes. I think all that should matter is the brain and not the enclosure of the brain. The rest of it is secondary, an important secondary, no doubt, for external beauty wanes with age. I disagree with you about matters being as bad in the East. Since the latter part of the last century, the East has advanced at a much more rapid rate than the West as far as gender equality is concerned. It probably has more heads of states and nations - women leaders, than the West does. Even an Islamic nation such as Pakistan has had a female leader - (though that was more of a case of lineage - the Bhutto legacy and she called herself by her paternal name even after marriage rather than the conventional Islamic custom of taking on the male spouse's second name). I digress too much. I think women should come out and air their views a lot more than they are doing today so that a proper balance is created in all aspects - as I said above what should matter is the gray matter and not the difference in the external covering of that gray matter.

I don't see it in the same manner because I work mostly with women as a Teacher's Assistant. I do have an opinion on how some of the young high school girl students dress though. I don't understand how they can wear only shirts to school. Who lets them out the house like that and why there is no suspension or no effort to have the girls sent home that dress like that. They need to find a pair of pants or shorts or a skirt to go with the shirt. Not just pantyhose. When I went to high school we had a dress code. We could not wear anything above the knee. I thought that this was too strict, but I think that the high school I work for should have it to where the students should not be able to wear an article of clothing that goes more than 3 inches above the knees.

It is not so bad in the states but women still have to fight down the way some guys look at them. Guys seem to think that women are not capable of having a sensible thought in their head. That men are better at work than they are. In the year 2009 it is better not completely over. We do have men that are willing to stay at home and watch the children while the wife goes to work. As far as the clothing goes I don't think the women here pay much attention to what a guy thinks about the way she dresses. But in every area there is always women who will bow down and listen and do what a guy tells her to do.

their are few countries who do not even allow their women to go to markets and schools also, I don't how such narrow minded communities survive this modern era also

I understand what you are saying as it is not that long ago that my country was just like it. We had the big push of the feminists in the 60's and 70's who started some change. But I will tell you that the change did not happen until women started to fight for the right to be treated as a human being instead of a second class citizen. We still have problems and there are still men and women who condemn women for being anything but a wife and mother. Unfortunately the feminists condemn women who do choose a life as a wife and mother. You will find that as long as you rely on men you will stay suppressed and your lives will be limited. You are swallowing the male stereotypes about you and the only way to break free of it is for someone to have the courage and stand up for what they think is right. Yes men are stronger than women but that does not make them better. Even in my country women are still judged by what they wear, how they wear their hair etc. The media is still run by men and they use this attitude to marginalise us. Our young women think that their predecessors solved the problems but they didn't. Some barriers have come down but there are still glass ceilings preventing women from getting into the top jobs. Men promote men, it is a boys club and they do not want us anywhere around. The big problem we also face is that we lost respect but from the sound of it you do not even have that. The feminists went to extreme lengths to challenge the men and they got labelled lesbians and all sorts of insults. They appeared to give up their femininity to try and be just like the men. That is one thing they got wrong. You do not have to give up your femininity to show that you are able to do the job as well as a man. Another way is for women to start businesses and employ women but you need to change the attitudes at the very earliest time and that is when mothers and fathers are socialising their children. If you do not do anything about it then men will continue to insult you and treat you as less. Have the courage to fight back. If one woman starts then others will have the courage to join in but it is hard.

We, as women, are just the last few generations been able to stand tall and find decent jobs. I think one of the reasons that women have inbraced the 'wh0re' mentality is out of what they felt was necessity. Few jobs women could do and then it became lazy and they have to pay for school. All the excuses in the book. And alot of women let men dictate to them. So much abuse because women think men know better. All this stuff is such a crock. Sad.

"We could have just easily said to ourselves why do we have to always let a man defend us? And we swallowing the male stereotypes about us?" Fundamental questions, indeed! Though I'm on the other side of the gender divide, I believe that the liberation of one is the liberation also of the other.

it is great that you started this discussion.. i dont mean to offence anybody but most muslim countries treat women like a property.. the situation is much much better in other countries and women have taken important positions in the society.. these societies just need some change that too in rural areas... but the total muslim countries treat women just like a car or any ther thing.. there is no freedom to them... anyway... according to me... if somebody tries to oppress you, you should become more stronger... if women are this way they choose it that way... the world is filled with women as it is with men.. so who can stop them if they want to change...

[i][b]...hotline to hell.. now that's something! But well, you're right zandi, there have been many issues on abuse on women's rights and I've been writing some articles about it since as a battered wife, I rather feel strongly against domestic violence. I have always been a strong, independent woman even before my Papa "forced" me to marry that that spawn of the devil ex-hubby of mine. But I guess, I was to be blame too when I allowed my Papa to do something against my will and allowed my ex-hubby to reduce me into some animal everytime he beats and hurts me. I should have fought and made them see my strength as a woman but I let them destroy my life. Now, after many years, I realized my mistake. This should serve as a lesson to many women. I love your post. Happy mylotting.[/b][/i]

I'm a woman and I know what I'm capable of and what I'm good at - but I also know what I'm bad at. Unfortunately for us - women actually do get pregnant and women actually do want to get pregnant. Our bodies and our minds are hardwired to be maternal - which in turn makes us accept whatever crap they throw at us just so they could be happy with themselves. I know I'm crappy driver, but I also know that I'm a good planner. It all comes down to us being good with housework and them being good with employee-life. I think it's not really that we're accepting crap, but it's that we're making our lives, which are meaningful and very important, look like crap - we should be proud to do female-jobs, but we have to be just as well compensated for it :D Thanks for the response on my discussion!

Society has always been male-dominated. It was only after the feminist movement that the condition of women in western society considerably improved. it is difficult to answer why it is like that. One reason is the male ego. Another reason is the woman's subjective nature. Why do the woman allows the man to dominate her is a million dollar question. If hell is full of women and heaven is full of men, then that heaven would be a very poor place. In that case, hell would be better.