What constitutes a Parent????
By bellaofchaos
@bellaofchaos (11538)
United States
January 15, 2009 9:59am CST
A while back I read a discussion about a father having to pay child support for kids that aren't his. What was neglected to be said was alot of facts.. Yes there was a very elusive article pasted to it. But one person did research and proved that the guy new that there was a possiblity of them being not his the entire time, yet he still fought to see them and only when he was asked for a raise in child support and less time spent with the kids did he decide he wanted a parternity test. I feel that is so many shades of wrong. He knew from the get go they might not be his and fought. The kids are now 16 and I'm not sure at what age this happened that there was a paternity test I would have to think very recently because the article was dated Jan 8, 09. Here is the big thing he has been the only father they have ever known and has taken care of them since birth. It's not like he knew and at the birth said lets get a paternity test and if it's his we'll get the other guy to pay. No he knew there was a chance of them not being his and decided at that point he didn't care. But here is the thing when the test came back and said he wasn't the father, a possibility he was a aware of since birth and still continued to be a parent and go on with the marriage and never question it, he ask for all the child support paid back and the support order to be dropped. Grrrrrr. Men like this piss me off. But the judge said nope you have been the only father they have ever known and no matter how strained the relationship is you have been there Parent.
[b]Know for my question!!!What are the peoples, by peoples I mean the ones that feel the guy above shouldn't have to pay, opinions on couples that go through artificial insemination of a sperm donor because the husband can't father a child. Then when they have marital problems and they divorce does that give him the freedom to say I'm not biologically that child's father so I don't have to pay?
Plus what do you feel constitutes a parent? [/b]
To me a Parent is determined by more than just blood alone. A parent is a person who takes care of you no matter what and love you no matter what and is there for you when you need them a parent is some one that give you unconditional love. Something the guy in the above paragraph obviously didn't have.
As Shakespeare had once said in his play Hamlet," There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio"
Thanks for your response ahead of time...
4 people like this
9 responses
@sparkofinsanity (20471)
• Regina, Saskatchewan
15 Jan 09
This is complicated, but I'll try.
First, in a way I don't blame the father for asking for his money back after the paternity test showed he wasn't the father. His male ego was hurt (in spite of his suspicions over the years as to paternity) and he was striking back more at his wife for PROVING him to have been cuckholded. And who knows, he may still have a relationship with the kids in the future because he apparently loves them.....
As for artificial insemmination, the law is very clear there. He will have to pay support regardless because he knew going in what the story was, and signed on as the parent anyway.
What constitutes a parent? Unconditional love for the child no matter what the geneology, all that that unconditional love gives to the child. Simple really. I was adopted and my parents are my parents no matter what my gene pool count says. End of story.
1 person likes this
@bellaofchaos (11538)
• United States
16 Jan 09
See this is where we disagree.. I feel he knew there was a possibility because he knew his wife had an affair that he had a choice right from the birth find out for sure or accept that there was the possibility and love them and chose to take care of them no matter what. By not doing the paternity test at the very begining he made his bed, he chose that no matter what they were his wehter it was blood or not. He payed child support without any thought or care from 1998 til now when a raise was asked for along with him getting less time. Then he wants to know. It just seems like his love is conditional based on money I'm glad that the judge told him that he would have to continue to pay child support.. He deserves that outcome.
1 person likes this
@sparkofinsanity (20471)
• Regina, Saskatchewan
16 Jan 09
Although I DO agree with the Judge's decision in view of the circumstances, I can't help but wonder if the reason he didn't question paternity earlier (go for the test) is because he truly loved his wife and was prepared to accept her and the baby as his own despite it's questionable parentage. Then as the marriage deteriorated and things went south all around, is his behaviour now, an outgrowth of his bitterness at his wife, which surely, despite his initial acceptance, has been building up since day one? See what I mean? Feelings are very complex things and we can't presume to know what's in another's heart of hearts.....
@sparkofinsanity (20471)
• Regina, Saskatchewan
16 Jan 09
Here's a little story that makes me think like this bella.
When I got preggers with my oldest, my ex's divorce from his first wife wasn't final and I was working long into the night at a city job. My ex hated that. So when he found out I was preggers he questioned whether the baby was really his, but he never asked for proof. We got married and Devon was born. My ex never really bonded to him like he did to our youngest even though as Devon grew it was obvious that he was definitely my ex's son. But he loved him and accepted him as part of our family. Years later when my ex met his current wife, she fanned the flames of the question of Devon's paternity. My ex still never asked for a paternity test.
Then last year, when Devon was so ill, and I asked my ex for help, he had the gall to say No, that Devon wasn't his anyway, and that he washed his hands of him. That was not really my ex talking. That was the current wife. And I believe that my ex will go to hell for that...but the point is, as the years went by, my ex's doubt became reinforced and when money came into the picture, he flat out got cruel.
@jtownesquire (104)
• United States
16 Jan 09
I don't respond to discussions, but am going to on this one. I've seen this issue from ALL the sides.....as you are well aware. I've dealt with "fathers" who don't want to pay and "fathers" who have no problem paying. I think most people have hit the nail on the head when they say that a "father" or "dad" is someone that loves and cares for a child regardless. I have 4 kids that I would do anything for. Not one of them is biologically related to me. 3 of them know I'm not their "father". The littlest would probably knock you down and bite you if you tried to tel her I wasn't!
While I can understand a certain level of hurt or betrayal if "dad" though they were his and then found out they weren't, I find it hard to accept that same position when he was aware that they may not be his biologically. Clearly, this guy never was their "Dad" or the possiblity of support wouldn't have caused him to simply sever that realtionship.
Any man (or woman) that would use the children as a tool to try to hurt the other party doesn't deserve the right to be called "Dad" (or "Mom").
That's my 2 cents. I could be wrong. (I'm not, but I could be.)
1 person likes this
@bellaofchaos (11538)
• United States
16 Jan 09
I couldn't have put it better myself and thank you for stopping by I know that you don't respond to discussions But I appreciate your input and you are 1000% correct.. And I agree anyone trying to tell the little on she's not yours , she'll do more than knock you down and bite the person she might as well be plotting their demise.
Jtownesquire you are the father! No if's and's and but's you love them unconditionally and you're awesome at it with them you are more a father than most of the men that I have ever met. I'll leave it at that. Talk to you laters.
@Sissygrl (10912)
• Canada
15 Jan 09
I think a parent is someone who has looked after loved and helped the child in question. . I think that if he is not the biological father but has been the father figure all their life.. then he is the father. . I am not so sure he should have to pay or continue to pay support to the mother if she doesn't want him to see the children. . its a hard case you've presented.. morally i think he should pay and be there for the children, but.. fairness to him, he technically has been paying for someone elses responsibilities since the child was born. . i bet even though he loves the children(i assume he does) he is probably a little .. irked.. that they are not his..
@bellaofchaos (11538)
• United States
15 Jan 09
I understand what you are saying but the fact that he knew they might not be his from the time they were born and never once tried to get a paternity or get another man to pay child support locks him in to my category of the mother asked for a raise in child support and for him to spend less time with him and he just decided he didn't want to pay more and instead of going about it the way that a caring parent would go about it, which I think is to counter the raise in support by asking for a raise in time spent with the kids. If she would have never asked for a raise in support and less time for him he would have never ever asked for paternity which he was aware from birth that he might not be the father so I think he definitely has to pay. But say he won that case .. Then where does that leave my other question about a couple that can't have kids and goes and gets artificially inseminated because the mans sperm is the problem. When he leaves the marriage should he pay support or go after the guy that donated the sperm????? Because on the logic that it's not his kids he shouldn't have to pay neither does the guy that outright does the procedure with his wife so they can have a child!!!! The person who has been a parent in all functions should pay!!!!
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
16 Jan 09
Ok controversey! Nice discussion.
I think that what the law views as a parent and what people view as a parent are two totally different things.
Yeah this guy knew there was a possibility that he wasn't the biological dad but it doesn't change the fact that he is not their biological dad. I think the judge who ruled in this case made a judgement according to feelings and not law unless this guy had adopted these kids which I don't see as being the case. His lawyers will probably appeal that and win. But there is a much larger issue- emotional distress on the children. The mother could possibly sue him civilly for damages. That could possibly be construed as child abuse as well possibly depending on the state. But if they aren't his or adopted by him I don't feel he is obligated to pay legally. This is what we have courts for, if the laws weren't in place, I could sue anyone for child support. I would go after Bill Gates hard core. LOL
But the mother also screwed this one up- ok, she doesn't know who her babies were fathered by and never bothered to check for sure? That is messed up on her part- what if the other guy wanted to be a part of his kid's lives and now has missed so many important years. The kids have to be questioning the mother and asking her why she didn't find out for sure. There should have been paternity tests right from the get go. She was wrong in this too not just the guy who doesn't want to pay.
Besides, she has some balls to go after that guy when she knows the kids aren't his. She needs to go after the real father for the cash and split with this guy.
Now, any of us who are parents know what parenting is about. Of course, unconditional love, joy, and hardhips but pulling it all together to turn out amazing kids who turn into amazing adults in this world. That is a little of what parenting is about. I could go on forever about that. But unfortunately, it does differ than the laws of the USA.
As far as artificial insemination, I have never had it but I'm pretty sure there are legalities in place about the sperm donor that you know of when you go into something like that so I think that might be a different subject all together. I believe that usually sperm donors are anonymous which leaves them free of any responsibility and as a woman who wants sperm implanted, I'm pretty sure you are fully made aware of that fact.
Anyway, there's my rant- this was a great discussion hun.
1 person likes this
@bellaofchaos (11538)
• United States
16 Jan 09
Hey hun thanks for coming into the discussion. I don't condone what the mom did either.. But this was a canadian case so laws differ than here in the states.
My point was the father knew from the begining and didn't ask or want a paternity test then he only wanted it when it suited him. He payed for child support from there seperation in I think it was 1998 and only recently asked for a paternity test when there was a raised asked for and less time. So he knew too he had the oppurtunity since birth to ask for a paternity test and should have if he didn't want to pay for it. But ultimately it's the kids that suffer for this. Both Parents are at fault here. He knew that they could be anothers before they were born he should have had testing done right there but he chose to be their father wether or not they were his and have that possibility hang over his head for the rest of his life that in my book makes him responsible for taking care of them and paying child support.
@cynicalandoutspoken (4725)
• United States
15 Jan 09
I responded in the above discussion you mention so I am just going to point out that your quote from Hamlet doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you left the last part of it off.
The quote is : "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
And really all Hamlet is saying is that human knowledge is limited. So I guess it fits with what you are saying. The guy griping about paying child support was an idiot :)
1 person likes this
@bellaofchaos (11538)
• United States
16 Jan 09
agreed .. this guy needs a kick to his Buttocks/brain.
@JackOLantern (48)
• United States
16 Jan 09
At first I thought this guy was more of a father to the children than whomever the actual father was. Until the bit about asking for the money back. The ONLY way I'd agree with asking for the money back was IF the mother wasn't using the money for the needs of the children, and then the father would buy the stuff for the kids. While this may be the case I think not, in which case it'd be hard for me to view him as a father.
Being a father myself, I don't think blood matters in the slightest. Either you step up and take responsibility and provide unconditional love, caring, support, and sometimes firmness (but always fair)...or you step aside.
One of the reasons why I have a hard time talking to my dad (adopted father, but he was there for me since I was three, so in my eyes Dad). Is because he treated me differently than his own children (my half-brothers). And when he found out that the middle son of us three boys might not be his, he started treating him differently too. We still don't know for sure, he never bothered to have a test, but just the fact that he would treat him differently even though he'd been there since my brother's birth, put me at odds with him.
1 person likes this
@rusty2rusty (6763)
• Defiance, Ohio
20 Jan 09
I think the man in question fought for rights to see the twins just to upset the mom. That are to try to win her back. Either way he did it for the wrong reasons and ended up hurting alot of people in the process. Espically those kids.
My current husband has and still is raising my first son from a previous marriage. My ex does not have any contact what so ever. My husband has raised and support my teen for 13 yrs now. My teen calls my husband father. Not my ex. My teen knows the difference. But tells everyone my husband is is father. As really he is the only father he has really know.
People who have adopted have proven that a child does not have to be blood to love, cherish, raise and do everything possible for the child. Just because someone sperm makes a child. It does not make them a father. But once you raise a child for years. You can't go back and say...sorry I made a mistake, your not mine...go away. It doesn't work thatw ay.
@bamakelly (5191)
• United States
15 Jan 09
I feel that a parent is someone that unconditionally loves a child and will stand by their family no matter what. Biological or not there can be unconditional love there.
Sometimes the real parents back out on their own family and other people step in. They take care of the children as if they were their own without any complaints. That is the idea of a true mother or father. @saqib0001 (25)
• Pakistan
16 Jan 09
a parent ( a good parent ) doesn't try to be their child's friend. a parent sets clear boundaries and follow through with consequences for over stepping those boundaries. a good parent is in the process of grooming their child(ren) to be positive and productive members of the society. a good parent does not accept anything less than what they know is their child's best. a good parent guides their child(ren) towards making the right choices, but knows they don't actually have any "control" over their child(ren). a parent never makes excuses for their child(ren)'s shortcomings, but encourages them to overcome them. there are many ways to go about these things, and what works for one child might now work for another. a good parent knows this and is clever in their parenting of each of their children.
