Justice of the peace forced to marry gay couples
By Tony78
@Tony78 (89)
United States
February 3, 2009 11:54am CST
Many liberals want to make it illegal for ministers, justices of the peace to refuse to marry gay couples. They claim it is a violation of civil liberties. These are of course the same ones who holler that prayer in school and the Ten Commandments being displayed on public property is a violation of the separation of church and state.
If a law is passed that required people to perform a marriage ceremony that is against their religious believes, is that not also violation of the seperation of church and state?
www.massresistance.org/romney/articles/ap_042504.html
1 person likes this
6 responses
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
3 Feb 09
My opinion on this is that a Justice of the Peace is not a religious role, it's a civil role. If it's part of someone's job description to perform legal marriage ceremonies then I think they should do so regardless of their own opinion, religious or otherwise. It would be the same thing if a JP didn't believe in interracial marriages or unions between two people with a large age difference or between two people from different backgrounds. If someone feels that strongly about it he or she should find a different line of work. Priests, ministers or rabbis are a whole different story, in my opinion. They should have the right to refuse to marry anyone if it violates their beliefs. That wouldn't mean the couple couldn't get married, they'd just have to find someone else to perform the ceremony.
Annie
2 people like this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
3 Feb 09
"It would be the same thing if a JP didn't believe in interracial marriages or unions between two people with a large age difference or between two people from different backgrounds."
That's a whole different ball of wax Annie. There are no religions I know of in which interracial marriages or marriages with substantial age differences are banned. On the other hand EVERY religion I've ever heard of is against gay marriage. It's not like Massachusetts has only one justice of the peace. It's quite simple to refer gay marriages to justices of the peace with whom they would not be violating their religions. Why does the left always try to force religious people to violate the core tenets of their faith?
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
3 Feb 09
"There are no religions I know of in which interracial marriages or marriages with substantial age differences are banned."
No, perhaps not, but in my lifetime, every objection I've ever heard to interracial relationships has been along the lines of "God never intended for certain people to be with other people, that's why he made white people white, and black people black." You actually hear stuff like that a lot down here in Texas, especially in the smaller towns.
Perhaps a better example on Anniepa's part would have been to use two people of another religion getting married. From what I've heard, a catholic marrying a non-catholic is a big deal in catholicism. So if a catholic JOP is opposed to two people marrying because one of them isn't catholic, should they be allowed to refuse to marry the two?
2 people like this
@Paula1966 (1102)
• United States
4 Feb 09
Sorry, Latrivia, I missed your comment when I posted mine. I did not mean to step on your toes.
1 person likes this
@MntlWard (878)
• United States
3 Feb 09
Forbidding gay marriage is a violation of the separation of church and state. It's also a violation of the fourteenth amendment of the US Constitution, which demands equal treatment under the law: if heterosexuals have the right to marry the consenting adult of their choice, then homosexuals also have that right.
By the way, a Justice of the Peace is not a religious figure.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
4 Feb 09
True Tony, I apologize for being off topic in your discussion.
@MntlWard (878)
• United States
4 Feb 09
Ted wrote: "No, the way the laws are written now is equality. Any adult male and any adult female can marry as long as they both consent."
I know your side of this issue likes to use this argument, but it's incorrect. Heterosexuals get to marry the consenting adult of their choice. It's not equality to only allow homosexuals the right to marry someone they would never choose to marry.
It's unequal treatment under the law no matter how many times you say otherwise.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
3 Feb 09
Once again, force is all the liberals understand.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
3 Feb 09
Of course it's a violation of their first amendment rights protecting religion. This was the big issue that I kept bringing up on gay marriage. In states where it is legal priests have been sued for refusing to marry gay couples and as a result, some churches completely canceled any and all weddings so they wouldn't be forced to violate their religion.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
3 Feb 09
Are you then telling me that the first ammendment does not protect a Justice of the Peace? I seem to have missed the part of the constitution that excluded them. Forcing a justice of the peace to perform a gay marriage would "prohibit the free exercise of religion" if his religion is opposed to gay marriage.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
3 Feb 09
If a couple gets married by a Justice of the Peace it's a CIVIL ceremony, not a religious one. In my opinion the Justice's religious beliefs shouldn't enter into it if something is legal. If he were a member of the clergy, that's a totally different story, again in my opinion.
Annie
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
3 Feb 09
"He should not hold an office if he allows his religious beliefs to interfere with the performance of his lawfully required duties."
Then that, in effect, mean you would ban Muslims, Jews, and Christians from being Justices of the peace. Basically, you would limit that job ONLY to atheists, agnostics, and members of fringe religions which support gay marriage.
That my friend is discrimination. You are then violating the 5th and 14th Amendment to the constitution.
"If a couple gets married by a Justice of the Peace it's a CIVIL ceremony, not a religious one. In my opinion the Justice's religious beliefs shouldn't enter into it if something is legal."
Calling it civil is merely arguing semantics. I might as well redefine the word "is". There are MANY legal things out there that violate one's religion. Just because it's legal doesn't mean you can force someone to violate their religion.
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
3 Feb 09
Hi Tony, Although I am not opposed to gay marriage, I also respect the right of a person to refuse to perform such a ceremony. No one can have it both ways, if you respect the right of one you must also respect the right of the other. No one should be required to do something that is against their religious beliefs. Blessings.
@Paula1966 (1102)
• United States
4 Feb 09
Based on this logic, would it be OK for the JOP to refuse to perform a civil ceremony for someone who was a different religion he did not agree with? For example, would it be appropriate for him to refuse to perform a civil ceremony for a Jewish couple?
Similarly, if someone's religion involved them being a conscientious objector, would this logic make it OK for them to join the military, yet refuse to be assigned to a battle?