Absurd Overreaction or Justified Precaution?
By craftcatcher
@craftcatcher (3699)
United States
February 8, 2009 6:29am CST
My hubby had a gig with his new band last night at a bar downtown, about 4 blocks from our house. He left home around 8:30 to go set up his equipment. I didn't feel like sitting by myself while he was busy on stage so since my best friend was coming down later anyway she agreed to pick me up on the way.
Around 9:00 hubby called from the gig and said, "I don't know what's going on down here but there are cops EVERYWHERE! They've got the street barracaded and right where I'm standing I count.. he proceeds to count... 22 city police and county sheriff cars, 2 ambulances, 2 SWAT teams in armored vehicles, a K-9 Unit, some huge vehicle like an oversized armored panel truck, a fire truck, an EMT vehicle and there's more at the other end of the street but I can't tell how many. A van from one of the tv stations and and one from the local newpaper just pulled up too." He said if we were still coming down at 9:30 we'd have to park in the back alley and come in the back door.
My friend picked me up as planned and we headed downtown. The police still had the street barracaded so we turned and went down the alley. Hubby wasn't exaggerating, there were police EVERYWHERE, the street was lit up like a gigantic flashing Christmas tree. I saw lots and lots of very large weapons being toted around by lots and lots of men in full body armor and helmets. I don't mind saying I got a bit nervous! The vehicles in the attached picture were right outside the front door of the bar. I looked around but couldn't see or hear anything going on. All I could think of was a drug raid or something like that where they were expecting a lot of trouble... maybe a shootout. That thought made me turn around quick and get away from the glass door at which I was standing.
When the 10:00 news came on the tv above the bar it was the headline story. The band was playing so we couldn't hear what they were saying but it said POLICE STANDOFF across the bottom of the screen and video from right outside the front door and the video camera was pointed at the building directly across the street from us. Oh well I'd have to wait until I got home before I found out anything.
So we got home about 2:00 am. I looked up the local newspaper website. Evidently some poor guy flipped out, called the local mental health facility saying he was going to commit suicide. The mental health facility called the local police who went over there to try to talk him out of his apartment. He refused to open the door and claimed he was armed. Evidently the local police called in the reinforcements. After a short VERBAL standoff they broke down the door, got him out of the apartment unharmed, restrained him, got him in the ambulance kicking and screaming and took him to the above mentioned mental health facility. Turns out he didn't have a weapon, no illicit drugs or anything else illegal was found upon searching the premises but there was no way for the cops to know that at the time.
Now I can't help but think that the 22+ cop cars, 2 full SWAT teams etcetera etcetera was just a bit much for one guy threatening to off himself. I understand taking the utmost precaution but come on!.. this was just an absurd amount of OVERKILL in my personal opinion.
So my question is, do you think the authorities overreacted or were they justified in their extreme precautions? Full moon? Slow night? There is a Dunkin' Donuts on the corner. Hmmmmmmm...
10 people like this
19 responses
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
8 Feb 09
Hi my friend! Well the whole drama across the street put a damper on the night but the people who did come in were very enthusiastic. All in all it was an ok night. Thanks for asking!
1 person likes this
@James72 (26790)
• Australia
8 Feb 09
Well you DID say there was a donut shop on the corner..... I am in 2 minds about this really. One side of me thinks that yes, it WAS overkill and way too heavy on the manpower; yet the other side of me says that there's no harm in being safer rather than sorry. This situation turned out to be a bit of a fizzer, but what if it didn't? What if the man that was holed up DID have himself a small arsenal? As long as no other major incidents occurred somewhere elsebecause the police were all caught up with this crap, then no harm, no foul in my opinion. At least it gave the Police an opportunity to practice their skills! lol.
2 people like this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
8 Feb 09
That was one of the first thing that popped into my head when I found out what really happened.. maybe they just all happened to be at the donut shop?
As a city and county taxpayer I can't imagine how much that little standoff cost the city and county. Ok I'll give that it was probably good practice for them but if they start handling all minor situations like this I can see our taxes going up as well. I will have to cry both harm and foul and I guarantee it will be foul.. I can make a sailor blush when riled up . Don't mess with my money honey!
2 people like this
@tammytwo (4298)
• United States
8 Feb 09
As the wife of an officer I know that you can never count on anything being 'just a routine' call. These officers never know what they are going to encounter when they go to the scene. You don't know what was told to the dispatcher and what information was relayed to the officers before they decided to send in 'all of the troops'. My husband brother both work in a small town but each approach every call and every traffic stop as if this could be their last. Until you have lived a moment in the shoes of an officer, dispatcher or family member of an officer you really won't understand why they do things the way they do. Even in our little town of just 6000 my brother recently stopped a car and the driver was on probation for murder, yes murder. We were listening to the radio that night and knew he was the only one on when we heard the dispatcher tell him the man was on probation for murder. Of course my husband was dressed and on his way out the door to assist before the dispatcher could say more. Officers are a family and they will always be there to back the others. Now I can't say that many units were justified but like I said before you don't know what was said when the call was made to dispatch.
1 person likes this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
8 Feb 09
I never once said it was "just a routine" call. The situation was very serious, I would never say it wasn't. Please do not put words in my mouth. Although I fully understand your position you were incorrect to assume that there are no cops in my family or that I have never been in a relationship with one.
See how points can be made without a single word in bold?
@GardenGerty (160663)
• United States
8 Feb 09
The thing is, you cannot tell if he would have intended to take the entire neighborhood with him when he went.If he had been serious. I think if they have the manpower to spare, then it was okay. It also serves as a training opportunity for people who do not get called out often.
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
9 Feb 09
I'm beginning to think that was the reason, a training exercise combined with a real life scenario. That's the only thing that makes any sense since no one was in real danger and there was no way for the guy to get out of the building. I'm just glad nobody got hurt.
@pergammano (7682)
• Canada
8 Feb 09
It is so easy, to be on the outside looking in, and NOT be fully aware of the information the Emergency Response teams were privvy to! The person may have had a long history of extreme violence, history of amassing weapons...taking hostages, etc., etc.,....and all we know is what is released by the media!
It may seem like "overkill" (no pun intended) to most people...but having been a member of a Emergency Response Team (paramedic) for 14 years, I know that if I was walking into the situation...I would want as many member of "specialty squads" as back up! People that are trained in every different task to keep the situation from escalating!
It is better to err on the side of caution....there are so many "what if's" in a call out like this...it can escalate so FAST! If they had to evacuate the entire block or many...they need all the manpower and NOW..not when they get there! there are always two sides to every story!
1 person likes this
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
8 Feb 09
Hi pergammano. I fully agree that we can never know the whole story and I certainly don't know what was going on inside that building. I can only go by what I saw with my own eyes and what I read. They may have felt perfectly justified to bring in that much for this situation. Thanks for your insight and opinion.
2 people like this
@fwidman (11514)
• United States
8 Feb 09
Because they never know what they will find, I'm sure they are thinking better safe than sorry. What if he did have weapons? What if he had decided to cross the street and take all of you in the bar with him? You just never know what a whacko is going to do...
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
9 Feb 09
Honestly hon, there was nothing the guy could have done. I've already typed the details out in a previous response but I'll just say that whacko, Rambo or Terminator, no one would have been in any danger except the cops outside his apartment door. I'll compare it to putting a body cast on someone because of a paper cut on their pinky. Way too much!
1 person likes this
@sedel1027 (17846)
• Cupertino, California
8 Feb 09
I agree that is extreme over kill. It is unfortunate that people who need help and try to get it are treated in such a manner. This situation is probably a good example of why more people don't try to reach out for help.
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
9 Feb 09
He did reach out for help by calling the mental health facility first. Doing that I'd say he probably wasn't serious about wanting to kill himself. Just a guy going through a rough time and handled it badly. I'm glad that it all ended well and nobody got hurt. I'm sure the guy is going to get some good counceling now.
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
8 Feb 09
They did overreact and brought way too many men to one place.If I were a criminal, I would get a guy to call in the same thing on one side of town while my crew and I rob a bank in the other side. I know he said he was armed but bringing SWAT? I can see three sets of police with vests but SWAT?
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
9 Feb 09
I thought about that later! Anyone with a police scanner would have known that virtually the entire city police force was downtown leaving the rest of the city unprotected. From what I read in the paper, this all started about 6:00 last night. So from 6:00 til about 10:30 criminals would have had free reign.
Reminds me of when President Bush paid us a visit a couple of years ago. During his short 2 hour stay the crime rate quadrupled .... yes criminals DO pay attention to things like this.
1 person likes this
@maddysmommy (16230)
• United States
8 Feb 09
It might have been an overkill but I would say better safe than sorry. There are surrounding buildings with lots of people around, you just never know. That guy could of been saying a lot to the police and threatening to kill himself and everyone around him, you know? He had to have said something more if they brought in the Swat team.
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
9 Feb 09
Honestly hon, there was nothing the guy could have done even if he had been armed to the teeth threatening to kill anything that moved. This is a pretty small town where they roll up the sidewalks at 5:00 on Saturday. There was no businesses open except for the bar I was in of course. They didn't shut the bar down and we were right across the street. They were not worried about him getting out of the building. His apartment is on the second floor above an auto repair shop. There's only two ways out, the very narrow staircase and the fire escape. Both were covered. The only window for him to shoot out of faced the railroad tracks and an empty field only placing a rabbit or two in danger. It wouldn't have mattered much what he said. Only the police who were outside his door were in any danger. Which is why I found the whole thing a bit much.
@twoey68 (13627)
• United States
19 Feb 09
Actually I'd say they were justified. Afterall they had no idea what they were dealing with other than a mentally unstable person who claimed to be armed. Their job isn't just to help that person but to protect everyone around them. I mean what if the guy really was armed and decided to open fire on the bar across the street? Alot of ppl could have been hurt or killed. Sometimes their precautions may seem like overkill but when they have no idea what their dealing with sometimes too many precautions are best.
[b]~~AT PEACE WITHIN~~
**STAND STRONG IN YOUR BELIEFS**[/b]
@teapotmommommerced (10359)
• United States
13 Feb 09
Yes it was over kill but what if he did have weapons and someone else in there as hostage? I guess they had nothing better to do that night; you know boys and their toys. heehee
@littleowl (7157)
•
11 Feb 09
Hi CraftCatcher...personally I think that is really absurd to send so many cops etc out for something like that, maybe at the most two or three cop cars and yes the ambulance but 22 cop cars OMG what are they thinking...in the UK that would never happen and would be a waste of tax payers money unless it was a really serious crime eg a hostage situation, or something like that...but guess (no offence) in the States they always seem to go overboard over something that is not serious at all...hugs littleowl
@tamarafireheart (15384)
•
8 Feb 09
Hi Craftcatcher,
I think that was a bit extreme but then again they didn't know that he might be armed and couldn't take chances as he might have taken pot shot at people, but its a good thing that he wasen't armed, but still think its extreme. Love and hugs.
Tamara.
xxx
@craftcatcher (3699)
• United States
9 Feb 09
Hi Tamara!
It was bizarre to say the least. Even if the guy had an arsenal of weapons he couldn't have done anything. They would have dropped him before he got more than a couple of shots off. I'm just very happy that no one got hurt.
XHugsX to you sweety
@Thoroughrob (11742)
• United States
9 Feb 09
It does sound like an overreaction. Although maybe they have dealt with this guy before and he put lots of people at risk. I really cannot see why they would need all that backup though. It was really extreme. I am glad it was nothing more serious though.
@suchasucker (206)
• United States
9 Feb 09
If they felt the guy had mental issues, they had to prepare themselves for anything. You never know what someone might do if they are not in their right mind. Although, 22+ vehicles seems to be a bit much for one man. I guess it's better to prepare for the worse, than show up with 2 cops and have a situation of terror on your hands.
@dolce_vita78 (8062)
• Philippines
9 Feb 09
Hello craftcatcher!This seems like more than what should have really happened. I mean for one individual who was threatening everyone that he would end his life... Well, I have seen this happened even in the Philippines. And I often have the same reaction like you do. Fine, they are trying to exercise utmost precaution but they can always do that in other fashion. Perhaps, the policemen didn't have anything else to do. LOL!
@Bebs08 (10681)
• United States
9 Feb 09
what? for just one person who attempt to kill himself the police is that alert to respond with 2 full SWAT teams? My goodness!!! hahaha!!! I can't believe they are acting that funny. But maybe the person who called the police was the one exagerating the story that is why they came in full alert? Well, anyway,.. for me that is too much.
@4ofmyown (1119)
• United States
9 Feb 09
Based on what you just wrote, I would agree that it seemed a bit much. BUT....who knows what he could have the health facility. He could have made claims of doing something or having weapons that deemed necessary for them to have that kind of reinforcement. He could have said a million things that would cause that kind of alarm.